Project: Minimalist with kayak

EddieZ · May 7, 2015

I've taken the first step in personalizing my new Transit. It's going to be my daily driver, and, I need to be able to transport a 14-foot kayak, INSIDE, either for local day trips, or for away trips, once I'm set up for camping.

For 15 years, I've carried a kayak on an elevated rack, over my pickup bed. I will happily give up the elevated storage, especially with moving to high-roofed (MR Transit) van. As I get older, floor level kayak storage will be better, and, there are other advantages to having it indoors. My 16 and 17-foot kayaks have sat unused for 2 years, as I had already favored the 14-footer -- a Dagger Alchemy -- for all-around fun.

So, 11 1/2 foot cargo box, 14-foot boat. I needed the space under the passenger seat, but, I did not want to completely remove the seat. I needed to make a convertible seat base. Fortunately, my kayaks are NOT of the chunky sit-on-top variety. In the photos you will see my 13 1/2 foot "dog boat," the widest of my kayaks. The width fit is very close with this mod.

You'll see the seat is removed, along with the hydraulic bottle jack. The jack mounting bracket was held down with the 3 too-long bolts in the center area. I later cut those bolts to a shorter length, rather than remove them completely. I will put acorn nuts on them, for safety and possible future use.

The non-moving base parts, held down by the original mounting bolts. Primary material is 1.25 inch, 14 gauge square tubing. Heavier base angle is 2 inch by 3/16 inch.

The moving parts, during a fitting. I made lift of about 7 1/4 inches from normal position. That's an inch more than I thought I needed, to allow for the thickness of a plywood or other floor in the cargo area.

Success - view from behind, and side view of the seat raised above the kayak bow.

Space under the seat is pretty clear, except for that one cross-piece for the seat adjuster. It turns out I would have been fine with an inch less lift. There are 60 pieces that I had to make, plus 8 bronze bushings and 2 hitch pins that were purchased at Lowes.

No, the seat is not to be used when it's raised to accommodate a kayak.

No, I'm not a professional welder.

Yes, I still need to clean it up and paint it.

No, my setup might not get the same crash test rating as the Ford engineered pedestal. But, it will rarely be used by another person.

While I have your attention, please see my next post, below. Concept questions I need to resolve, before proceeding with my light camper van build.

EddieZ · May 7, 2015

Left-right weight distribution

In my van, the kayak location is a limiting factor. The floor space on right of van must remain clear, thus, that is not a good location for bulky-heavy items like cabinets, water, batteries. The only "useful" floor space would be ahead of and behind the wheel wells.

So, the only thing that has made sense is to put the bed on the right side. I expect to make it hinged on the wall, so that it can be folded out of the way. It may have legs or chains for support. It will probably have the mattress on all the time. In memory foam or latex, the mattress might be 40 lbs.

I figure to have a base cabinet along the left wall -- maybe full height in the back half. I really only want simple jerry cans for water storage -- put, say, three for drinking water under the counter, with easy access door, and a 4th for grey water from a simple sink. Probably set up a 12v pump, with feed tube that can be swapped between cans. MOST of the time, the water cans would be empty.

It looks like the cabinet just behind driver seat is the logical position for house batteries, so that's more weight on the left side, and it would be carried all the time.

If it could help my weight distribution, I would consider a chassis mounted, dedicated water tank. Unfortunately, the right chassis space does not look as good as the left, for clear space and mounting options. BUT, maybe someone has ideas on appropriate tank and mounting for that right side space. And, I'm not going to have the elevated floor that some install in the high roof Transits. So, water line would have to run... under the cargo box? (I don't live or travel in extreme cold.) Pex through wall and ceiling space? Or, maybe just along the front edge of whatever floor I put in, where it would have some protection?

Maybe I'm missing something that would help. Or, maybe I'm not going to have enough weight bias to really matter in a vehicle with such high weight capacity.

tthrsn · May 7, 2015

I did find you seat raising technique very impressive but ... is there enough room to mount the kayak under the roof so that it projects into the front over the passenger seat? This would give you some floor space for heavy items on the right. It would also make the sliding door more usable when the kayak is there.

EddieZ · May 7, 2015

Thanks, and thank you for considering my weight distribution quandary. There isn't enough high and clear roof length up front to do that, unless the boat was down in the windshield area. And, my other kayak is 6 inches longer than the one shown.

EddieZ · Jun 8, 2015

I've had analysis paralysis. Have been considering purchase of commercial wall and ceiling (and even floor) liner kits. In another thread, I had looked at the economics and quality of liner kits. I had determined that doing it myself with Celtec -- my preferred material -- would cost at least $1062, while kits from Legend, via Inlad, would cost $1448.

Today, I finally found a way to get Celtec for less, through a plastics supplier in Atlanta. I just ordered sheets of 6mm gray Celtec for $68 each, and $139 shipping for 8 of 'em, total of $685. I think the liners can be done with 7 sheets, so, I'll have 1 extra backup sheet. So, I'll be saving $250 over my previous DIY estimate, and more than $600 over buying kits from Inlad.

Will it be Celtec light grey, or dark grey? I don't know! The supplier was unsure, from his available data. Either will be OK. Light grey, more like the pewter seats. Dark grey, more like the slider door panel, and other charcoal accents.

I've been worried about how to join panels of Celtec, for the ceiling. When I was talking to Hein, ordering Thinsulate, he mentioned that Celtec bonds well with CA glue (similar to Superglue). Hein even makes interior van furnishings with thicker pieces of Celtec, and CA glue. Now, I think I can work out edge bonding with CA, possibly with router cut-edges, if necessary.

For the record, the Legend liners are made of their Duratherm, and, I eventually learned that the material consists of two layers of HDPE, with corrugated or other hollow material between them.

Also, for benefit of others, I eventually found another liner kit for less money. But, it appears too soft, as photos show the fastener buttons causing indents in the material.

And, for benefit of me, for reference, I'm collecting below, some of the other threads I've started to try and gather info needed to begin my build:

Door steps and flooring thickness

Hanging stuff under chassis, anyone?

Couple of options questions

New owner, new project in Georgia

EddieZ · Jun 8, 2015

I was given a link to Clips and Fasteners, for OEM type push retainers, like those holding on the liner panel on the sliding door. It looks like this is the one we need for the Transit liner panels. Specs say it fits into an 8mm hole and has 20mm stem length. Our holes are 9mm. But, an OEM pin does fit into an 8mm hole (and, there are some 8mm holes in the ceiling beams), and it expands to 12mm.

But wait, Clips and Fasteners has another same-same item that "replaces Ford #N807389S ", and it's less expensive.

But wait! I go to check out, and shipping is $14.

But wait --

, and select Clips and Fasteners as the vendor, and shipping is free!

$29 for 150 push retainers. That's about 1/3 of what I feared they might cost.

Oh, and, I had contacted Inlad, to ask if the push retainers included with liner kits are re-usable -- like OEM. Or, were they, possibly the simple serrated posts that get mangled when you remove them? This is important if you expect to have ready access behind the panels, as you continue a build. The guy was not crystal clear in his text, but, did say that the fasteners pushed in, and should, ideally, not be removed.

perchancetodream · Jun 9, 2015

Very clever. I solved my kayak problem by buying a 10 footer to go with the 130 LR...some day

kenjent · Jun 9, 2015

Very clever design. Your design would also work for mounting items such as additional batteries under the van. Raise when travel and drop down for access and service of battery.

EddieZ · Jun 13, 2015

My MaxxFan install

I'll make a few comments about the fan install I did today -- just the stuff that may be different, or insightful, or annoying. It's already been covered by others, with lots of photos:

Orton

Skagitstan

jethaden

Beridian

The most unique thing about my install may be that I did the entire thing from inside the van. I only had to climb a ladder on the outside, to do the final placement of the MaxxFan into the installed flange**. If you're skinny, you may be able to pull this off, as well. I could not think of a good way to get high enough and stable enough on the medium roof van to work on the exterior. And, I think the unsupported roof areas will distort or bend if you look at them wrong.

My goal was to try to maintain the roof's curve by adding side shims cut from vinyl brick molding. I did trial and error on the subtle angle, until I got it right. The scales on my saws are not very expensive or precise, but, the angle is 2 1/2 to 3 degrees. See photos.

I cut the hole with a jigsaw, yes, from the inside. Instead of drilling corner holes, I drilled 5 closely spaced holes in the middle of each side. I cut between the holes with a Dremel with metal cutting wheel. Then, I was able to cut from the middle, to the corners with the clunky jigsaw. This was a bit awkward doing the transverse cuts, having to hand-support one edge of the saw's foot, while riding the tape-protected cross-beam on the other edge. I had to finish off 1/2 inch in 4 places, with a handle mounted hack saw blade.

Like others, I clamped all of the parts together to drill holes. I had already fit some wood for the underside, which will maintain the spacing under the ceiling liner, and the MaxxFan trim piece will screw into the wood. I had put some cross-grooves in the upper surface of the wood pieces, so that on final assembly, I could apply some 3M 5200 and get better adhesion, to have permanent pieces, there. Not that I ever want to remove the MaxxFan flange, but, if I did, I would not have to deal with the wooden spacer blocks, again. tthrsn has good info on using 5200 to attach wood to metal.

I used butyl tape for the initial seal of all exterior parts to one another, and to the roof. I think I had 5 layers of tape at the widest gaps at the sides of the front and rear edges, near the vinyl side spacers. One photos shows the butyl material after I had trimmed it with a plastic picnic knife. There's no pic, but, I later applied Dicor 501 caulk (which one MaxxAir video, I think, favored) all around, and over the screw heads.

That's all the good stuff.

Here's the bad stuff about the install.

I try to do things right, so I will be satisfied when I look at them, and be proud to show them off to others. Sometimes **** happens. I'll blame Ford for this one, although, under more ideal circumstances (more forethought, less pressure to get work done while it's not "supposed" to rain, more available assistance, maybe more experience, etc), I could have done better.

"What, what, tell us what you're talking about!"

Well, my vinyl side spacers are nice and perfect, and the fan sits perfectly on the roof panel. BUT, the roof panel does not sit perfectly on the roof crossbeam supports! Id say it's about 1/8 inch higher on one side, and, if you're looking for it in the interior, you can notice this by the thickness of the anti-vibration foam between the parts. So, the roof is lopsided, but would not normally be noticed. Now, from the rear, particularly with the vent open, there's a noticeable tilt to the fan assembly, in relation to the van (of course lopsided roof line is not visible). I'm really pissed about it. Pissed at Ford, and at myself. I could have compensated for this by adjusting the thicknesses of the vinyl side spacers.

** My statement about only using the ladder on the exterior one time is not quite true. I had to take a detour after getting the cutting and filing done, to vacuum up metal filings on the roof. This was a bad scene. You have LESS time than you think, to get all that stuff. We had some humidity today, and some of the smaller, barely visible bits started to attach firmly to the paint finish. And, the filings and chips vibrated and moved on down the grooves in the van top, to near the front of the roof. I could not vacuum them while standing on my ladder, up through the 14x14 inch hole. Had to move around the exterior, climbing the ladder with big shop vac in hand, awkwardly vacuuming everywhere. I still don't think I got it all. And, the places where the microbits clung on, I'm going to re-visit after I drive into town to get a mild scrub sponge, which I'll try using with denatured alcohol, or maybe just car wash soap.

Whether cutting from inside or from outside, it would be best to have another person on the outside, chasing the cut with a vacuum brush-fitting.

EddieZ · Jun 14, 2015

Panel Fasteners

I received the "GM push-type retainer" panel fasteners from Clips and Fasteners, today. They are perfect. Difficult to tell from Ford's OEM parts, as found on the sliding door panel in a cargo van. See photo. Not a great photo -- makes the C&P fastener (left) to look a bit rough in comparison to OEM (right)... but, they're just fine. These are SKU: PAS1860-25 for pack of 25, $4.79. The piece is noted to replace Ford N807389S. 150 of 'em for $28.74, and free shipping. There's an Amazon link, in my previous post.

EddieZ · Jun 14, 2015

Update -- My wonky MaxxFan

OK, I have pics. Turns out the fan itself has a tilt to it, which adds to the 1/8 inch tilt of the roof panel. I can't do anything about the Ford roof panel, which probably is within normal manufacturing tolerance.

Tell me what you think about the MaxxFan. See the pic with it removed from the mount. If it was your fan, would you contact manufacturer, about replacement?

It's not hooked up to 12v, yet. Driving around on an 88 degree day -- fan open and windows down a few inches -- I can see that I can make less use of AC (I rarely use home AC), and, that's before doing any insulating.

EddieZ · Jun 16, 2015

First wall template

I made my first wall panel template today, using 22x28 inch poster board. Started with the easiest section, which used just over 2 sheets. After I cut it to size and taped it up, I marked about where the holes should be, then pressed and felt for them. I burnished them with the round end of a screwdriver handle. I have circular hand punches, to nicely make the holes, back on the workbench. Here, I'm testing it with the panel fasteners. I'm still not sure what, if anything, Ford and Legend use to secure their panels to the bottom edges, as there are large rectangular holes there, rather than 9mm round holes.

I wanted to get this template made, because I'll soon have wiring sticking out of the wall, behind the driver's seat. Yes, Orton's preferences notwithstanding, that is a piece of flex conduit showing past the C pillar. I like the stuff, and, it's cheap. Only needed 12 feet of it. Will switch to the similar but split shielding, for the branch wiring. I'm only burying 4 circuits, and the central LED fixture will be switched -- making primary wire better than SO cord. I'll put that switch within reach and high, while standing outside the sliding door.

(I had to de-saturate the photo, due to strange color lighting reflected into the van. That's why the blue tape and conduit look pale.)

orton · Jun 16, 2015

EddieZ said:
es, Orton's preferences notwithstanding, that is a piece of flex conduit showing past the C pillar. I like the stuff, and, it's cheap.

I only make comments on what has worked well for me. We all have our own ideas about what is best for our application. I am certainly not an expert in building conversions.

TNorth · Jun 17, 2015

Thanks that's very helpful. I do plan to insulate ceiling with Thinsulate, however if I can get away with it I'd like keep the ceiling above the bottom of the support beams, at least in the section adjacent to sliding door. It will be a lot of work, but even a half inch of height will make a difference when I stand up in the van. I'll look at running wire through the thinsulate, I just don't want to compress it too much.

The vinyl brick molding for the fan installation is a very good solution, I'm planning to use that.

Thanks

EddieZ · Jun 17, 2015

TNorth said:
Thanks that's very helpful. I do plan to insulate ceiling with Thinsulate, however if I can get away with it I'd like keep the ceiling above the bottom of the support beams, at least in the section adjacent to sliding door. It will be a lot of work, but even a half inch of height will make a difference when I stand up in the van. I'll look at running wire through the thinsulate, I just don't want to compress it too much.

I have an idea for a ceiling paneling scheme that may work for you. For myself, I'll cover the full ceiling, and have a full 2 inches of insulation. But, with the headliner in place, I can't attach paneling at that front roof support with panel fasteners. And, when the paneling runs straight across the other roof supports, it meets that front support at the roof skin, due to the roof slope beginning in that area.

SO, point is... I figure I'll use angle aluminum with VHB tape, to hold the ceiling panel up at that support. You might just use that method of panel support in all locations.

Hmm, now thinking about it your panel material might want to sag with "short" sections supported this way. But, maybe not, if you can maintain the roof's arch, in the ceiling panels; the arch should counteract sag.

EddieZ · Jun 20, 2015

Sliding door innards

I've started on insulating my van. Today, I decided I'd pull off the panel on the sliding door, and add a big ole piece of insulation in there. But, I was surprised by all the cables and small spaces. And, the sealed dust cover. I decided to leave it for later. Or, never.

I had also figured I'd eventually get to the rear door panels. Those are finished interior trim, which would take more knowledge and finesse to remove. The insides are probably similar to the slider. Anyone taken those off?

EddieZ · Jun 20, 2015

Temporary 12v setup

I got my 12v setup working, just to run the MaxxFan, for now. It's a temporary configuration, until I can make a real cabinet. All of the cables are longer than necessary, to allow for whatever routing I end up with. The cables associated with the CTEK D250S Dual DC-DC charger are bigger than necessary, to allow for eventual upgrade to include the CTEK Smartpass, if desired, without having to buy cables a second time.

You guys with the dual OEM battery option may have a crowded battery box to deal with, but, the single battery leaves plenty of room for cable routing. I had not seen how anyone else was routing cables, but, I ran mine right through an existing slot in the seat pedestal -- just had to peel back some black tar-paper-like material. And, I used a Dremel to make a passage through the rear wall of the plastic battery box.

orton · Jun 20, 2015

EddieZ said:
I had not seen how anyone else was routing cables, but, I ran mine right through an existing slot in the seat pedestal -- just had to peel back some black tar-paper-like material.

Thank You. Had not noticed the covered slots.

EddieZ · Jun 20, 2015

MaxxFan customer service

I contacted customer service about my wonky MaxxFan. The CS guy and their engineer think the lifter arms are out of sync -- ie, welded to their common shaft at different angles. They are sending me a replacement part, which, they assure me that I can put in myself. Happy to give it a try.

EddieZ · Jul 7, 2015

Plywood floor

I did a simple floor of 1/2 inch marine plywood. I won't go into a lot of detail, since it's not rocket science. I cut from 3 sheets turned sideways, to have 2 seams across the van. It was good to find marine ply for $62 a sheet, as I have paid almost $80 in the past, when it was hard to find in a small "city".

But, no matter how flat it looks in the warehouse, you're sure to find that plywood doesn't lay perfectly flat. That being the case, I decided to bond the wood to the floor in strategic locations, both for flatness, and to kill potential harmonic vibrations.

I also edge glued the sheets together, with wooden spacer-splints to screw into, to keep things lined up. I did not opt to insulate under the plywood, instead preferring to allow air circulation, in case things get wet down there. I haul wet kayaks and gear, so, it is possible. And, I had not read Orton's (I think) mention of caulking around a floor, which should keep it from getting wet below... but, you never know until you find your floor rusted out.

Those wood spacer-splints in the photo... the ridges in the van are just over 3/8 inch deep. I had wanted to use 3/8 plywood cuts for the spacers, but, they were not thick enough, even though I had true 3/8 plywood. So, I had to slice up some 2x4s to get exactly the right thickness.

Speaking of floor thicknesses, how about that OEM vinyl mat with rag felt pad? It's deceptive. You look at the edges that are accessible, and may think you've got 1/2 inch of padding, with 1/8 of vinyl... like you've got a 5/8 inch floor. Of course, that's wrong. The padding is pre-compressed at the factory, to conform to the ridges in the floor. At the tops of the ridges, the compressed padding is just 1/8 inch thick. You really have a floor that stands just 1/4 inch higher than the floor's ridges.

So, I installed a 1/2 inch plywood floor, which means the floor is 1/4 inch higher than it used to be. Well, I put some Lowe's linoleum on there too. Check a few posts down for a photo of the finished floor and finished walls, as I get it written up.

And, below, I want to write about re-using the OEM door steps with a thicker floor.

swellguy · Feb 8, 2016

EddieZ said:
I did a simple floor of 1/2 inch marine plywood. I won't go into a lot of detail, since it's not rocket science. I cut from 3 sheets turned sideways, to have 2 seams across the van. It was good to find marine ply for $62 a sheet, as I have paid almost $80 in the past, when it was hard to find in a small "city".

But, no matter how flat it looks in the warehouse, you're sure to find that plywood doesn't lay perfectly flat. That being the case, I decided to bond the wood to the floor in strategic locations, both for flatness, and to kill potential harmonic vibrations.

I also edge glued the sheets together, with wooden spacer-splints to screw into, to keep things lined up. I did not opt to insulate under the plywood, instead preferring to allow air circulation, in case things get wet down there. I haul wet kayaks and gear, so, it is possible. And, I had not read Orton's (I think) mention of caulking around a floor, which should keep it from getting wet below... but, you never know until you find your floor rusted out.

Those wood spacer-splints in the photo... the ridges in the van are just over 3/8 inch deep. I had wanted to use 3/8 plywood cuts for the spacers, but, they were not thick enough, even though I had true 3/8 plywood. So, I had to slice up some 2x4s to get exactly the right thickness.

Speaking of floor thicknesses, how about that OEM vinyl mat with rag felt pad? It's deceptive. You look at the edges that are accessible, and may think you've got 1/2 inch of padding, with 1/8 of vinyl... like you've got a 5/8 inch floor. Of course, that's wrong. The padding is pre-compressed at the factory, to conform to the ridges in the floor. At the tops of the ridges, the compressed padding is just 1/8 inch thick. You really have a floor that stands just 1/4 inch higher than the floor's ridges.

So, I installed a 1/2 inch plywood floor, which means the floor is 1/4 inch higher than it used to be. Well, I put some Lowe's linoleum on there too. Check a few posts down for a photo of the finished floor and finished walls, as I get it written up.

And, below, I want to write about re-using the OEM door steps with a thicker floor.

How did you attach the floor?

EddieZ · Jul 7, 2015

Using the OEM doorsteps with a thicker floor

As noted in the post above, a 1/2 inch plywood floor raises the floor height 1/4 inch more than the OEM vinyl, padded floor. So, my plan was to raise the load bearing surfaces of the door steps by 1/4 inch, in order to continue using the steps. In the photo, above, you can see where I've made a 1/4 inch spacer for the rear step-threshold. You'd think that would work. But, you'd be wrong.

The bare rear step area has high-low regions, and, all of them are load bearing, due to the way the plastic tread plate is molded. So, running a simple spacer raises the tread plate too high, and leaves parts unsupported. I had to slice and dice the spacer, and bond the smaller pieces in place with dabs of construction cement. I did not want to do too good of a job gluing the pieces down, as I well may replace the step with an aftermarket manufactured piece, at a later time... and I suspect that a metal tread plate, for example, would simply run flat, and could be adjusted for floor thickness with a simple, one-piece spacer like mine originally was.

The side step is a bit different. Although all surfaces are, again, load bearing over high-low areas, it's pretty easy to cut off 28 or 32 (I forget) plastic circles, to flatten the load bearing surface of the step. I used a Dremel with an abrasive wood-cutting wheel to do that. Then, you can make 3 "simple" spacers, and attach them with dabs of construction cement.

All of my spacers were 1/4 inch. Because I would be adding linoleum, 5/16 inch plywood would have been better. 3/8 was too much.

I figure that by doing the floor, walls and ceiling myself instead of ordering the nice stuff from Inlad, I saved about $1200. I was NOT looking forward to cutting stuff -- especially the floppy 6mm Celtec panels -- with a 7 1/4 inch Skil saw. I put $120 of my saved cash into a new, lightweight Dremel saw, see photo. I have found it to be great for free-hand cutting. Less great for cutting along a straight-edge, because it's so low, a 2x4 is out of the question as a guide.

EddieZ · Jul 7, 2015

Wall panels, and lino floor

The Celtec worked out as I had hoped, for walls. I wanted to get close to an OEM or commercial liner look. I did not want to deal with wood, and finishing. The Celtec will be durable enough for my use, though it can be scratched or marred with thoughtless treatment. Well, so can other materials, to some degree. I'm not too rough on my stuff.

In fact, it's pretty easy to mar in handling, when working with it -- especially working alone. I do have a few blems built into the walls, but, it's not like I even notice them. Most of the layout work and cutting was done on the back sides of the Celtec.

Working with Celtec reminded me of working with balsa wood. Careful with those power tools!

The material is pretty floppy, and my work environment limited. I could not get perfect "machined" edge cuts. So, I made sure the edges that butted near van center were the manufactured edges.

I had purchased 150 of the OEM push-fasteners. I thought I'd have leftovers. But, I see that, by the time I'm done with the ceiling, I'll be short a few fasteners.

I had to drill a few new fastener holes, most of which can be referenced in the left-side photo, below. One at the rearmost part of the lower front panel. One at the upper front corner of the upper rear panel. There is nothing to anchor the paneling to at the front of the front upper panel. For that, I had to use 1 inch aluminum angle, cut to 1-inch pieces, with fastener holes drilled, then attached with VHB tape. I also had to squeeze the aluminum angle in a vice, to tighten up the angles, due to the angled sides of the B-pillar.

The panel edges below the wiring race may appear not to be cut straight. Actually, the wiring race is kind of goofy.

You can see my floor linoleum, here. Got it on sale for $55. It's "fiberglass backed" not glued in, so, if I damage it, or find a material I like better, it will be easy to change.

orton · Jul 7, 2015

I left the rear threshold OEM. My floor starts flush with the inside surface of the rear door frame. That leaves a 3/4" gap between the front edge of the Ford threshold cover and the start of my floor. The floor is 2 1/8" thick at the back edge. 1/2" spacer to get back edge of floor to same height as top of corrugations, a 1/8" layer of loaded vinyl, the 1/2" plywood floor and then the 1 1/2" 80/20 framework bolted on top of the plywood.
The low areas of the floor are filled with 1/2" closed cell foam. I did caulk the plywood floor seams and around the perimeter with flexible caulk. The plywood bolts to the van and the 80/20 bolts to the plywood. No direct Transit metal connection to the aluminum 80/20 framework so I have thermal isolation.
I discarded the slider door step cover. I will make a formed 14 ga. SS cover that covers the step and is bent up 90 degrees to cover the vertical back of step and the edge of the 2 1/8" thick floor. My sink cabinet blocks about half of the slider door opening so I will only need a 22 1/2" long anti slip pad glued to the front portion of the SS step cover. The centrifugal water pump will be located at the very back of the step.
Floor makes van very quiet. I am not concerned about further sound deadening in the walls and ceiling. I will get additional sound deadening from the insulation but that is not a requirement.
I used expanded PVC for my ceiling in the sold Sprinter and it does mar easily and does not have much physical strength. Transit will have 6 mm extruded Macrolux polycarbonate panels (greenhouse panels) which are stiffer and will not mar easily. We will see how they work. Ceiling will be flat. There will be a 1 1/2" spacer between bottom of roof rib on van centerline and the top of the ceiling panel.

I would post pictures and drawings but they are not allowed on this site. (Maybe if I keep complaining the site owners will wake up!)

TNorth · Jul 7, 2015

I've been out of country for a few weeks. Thanks for the ceiling suggestion posted on 6/17, it gives me some good ideas. My ceiling can have various slopes as long as it maximizes living area height. I'll check out your idea with some templates.

I got the mid-roof height so i can still get boats on and off the top of van by myself, any taller and i think putting 4 to 6 canoes on top would be a real production.

I'm even considering installing a section of a raised roof in the living area (sliding door area) that would give me more headroom and be an integrated part of the roof rack base above.

orton · Jul 7, 2015

I have a high roof so do not need to be concerned about the height loss due to the added floor thickness or the dropped flat ceiling. One of the problems with the high roof is the roof slopes down from its maximum height above the slider door to the headliner edge behind the seats. It will be easier to transition down from the cargo height to the headliner height if I have a flat ceiling in the cargo area. The Transit medium height was too short for my needs and the high roof is too tall. Sprinter high roof is between the two Ford choices and worked well. The Sprinter roof is the same height from the back doors to the edge of the front headliner.

GROOVY2 · Jul 9, 2015

EddieZ -Great Build - Very well done and clean looking - like your vinyl choice -
I am not familiar with Celtec - what are the reasons you decided to use it ?

Also I am not clear on why you installed the wood pieces on rear door threshold -
is it because you removed some padding and you are replacing with wood
for height adjustment at joint ?

Wish this site let people post more pictures -

I am new to van modding and its going to be a few months before I get my van -

Transits are still pretty rare here so I have only been in 2 for a few minutes-

One van had a black wall/ floor liner -
Im guessing the wall liner was made with thin COROPLAST -
and coroplast is what I was thinking about using also - any thoughts on it ?

Great thread -
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EddieZ · Jul 9, 2015

Thanks. The Celtec is lightweight, light in color for a brighter interior, has an OEM look, is easy to work - almost too easy - and requires no finishing.

If that was a cargo van that you saw, those darker panels are called the load area protection package, in the options. I understand the material is the same as is used on the sliding door liner, which I do have. Not sure what its called. if I could have gotten it I might have used it in spite of its darkness. it's a lot like the corrugated vinyl products, except that instead of linear corrugations they are more like geometric shapes making up the pockets of air.

The vinyl floor you saw, again in a cargo van, was the one that has recycled felt liner beneath it. I described the mat in some detail a couple of posts up. I took that Mat out when I put in the half inch plywood floor. my floor was one fourth and higher, so I had to put those one-fourth inch wood spacers along the rear threshold so that I could continue using the factory tread plate. for now, anyway. That factory floor is not entirely worthless. but, I needed the plywood floor so that I could attach cabinets and bed. that factory floor is very wavy, lumpy. now that I have an actual flat floor, it's noticeably nicer to walk on.

EddieZ · Jul 28, 2015

Ceiling complete -- finally!

The ceiling was a much bigger challenge than the walls, complicated by having to wait 4x, for assistance in handling/placing/removing/installing the ceiling, as I progressed.

It's installed as one single piece, using the factory holes, along with 8 screws at the edges that go into nut plates that I made, to fit into the crossbar rectangles. All along, I wanted to do one large piece, to avoid having to engineer some way to join and support separate panels, at the ceiling.

I had learned from Hien -- the Thinsulate guy -- that Celtec bonds well with "superglue" type CA. The question was, would it sufficiently edge-bond 6mm Celtec? The answer is: yes, and no. It's true, that IF you have perfect edges, the bond will be stronger than the material itself. The best glue I tried for this was "Bob Smith" BSI MaxiCure. BUT, it's virtually impossible to get perfect edges to work with. None of my tools or setups are precise enough to get perfect, stutter-free, smooth, perpendicular cuts. SO, I figured I'd use the factory cut edges for the joints I needed to make a 1-piece ceiling. BUT, even those edges are not perfect, which becomes more apparent as the joints become longer.

I finally had to resort to putting fiberglass over the joints, on both sides. The fiberglass is wetted with CA glue. The best for glassing is BSI Insta-Cure Super Thin. But, I ran out of Super Thin, and had to use some thicker formulations -- just one of several headaches that resulted in what I consider less-than-perfect visual results of the joints. Ah-well -- it still looks pretty good, for what little time anyone would actually be looking at the joints.

I've included a photo of my custom made nut insert plates, for the rectangles at each end of the ceiling cross-bar supports. They are just held in place by their own structure, and having insulation packed in behind them. They can slide up/down a bit in the rectangle, as needed. I had made the same 9 or 10mm holes as for the push fasteners, so I would have some slop factor. When I went to install the screws, I did have to stick a tiny screwdriver in, and line up a couple of the nuts. The screws that I used are

.

In the photo of the ceiling, you can see my installed LED lights. The one near the back door is to be a reading light, over the head of the bed. The double light near the center is operated by the wall switch at the rear of the sliding door. This switch can be reached while standing outside the van. I placed this "center" light out of the center walking area. It will be partially over a cabinet, eventually. Also, up high and near the back door, I have 2 12v power sockets. They are recessed into one of those ovals in the sheet metal, so, there's support (several push-fasteners, and one sheet metal screw with fender washer, that I added up high, hidden by the ceiling) for both inserting and removing 12v plugs. I will make a shelf over the bed that, among other things, will be a good place to stash electronic devices while they are charging.

There is not currently any support for the ceiling, up there at the cross-bar that is shared with the cabin headliner. It does not seem to be a major need, given that the ceiling arch makes that section pretty rigid. I may attach some supports of angle aluminum to the side of the crossbar, with VHB tape. Or, I may find some 3M Command self-stick attachments that I can modify and attach, both to give the ceiling support, and, possibly, to hold up other stuff, like curtains, or clothes on a hanger, or drying towels... I dunno.

It's worth noting that the ceiling could be assembled out of just three pieces, with fewer joints. But, that would require a nice pattern to work off of, and getting a pattern of the ceiling is not nearly as practical as getting patterns for the walls was. I found it relatively easy to get a pattern for the front, center edge, at the crossbar shared with the headliner. After getting that transferred to the front of a sheet of Celtec, and doing a lot of very careful measurements for hole placement, I was able to do a preliminary install of the main, center section. From there, it was possible to do a few patterns and more measurements for the side extensions. That's how I wound up with 6 pieces and more joints.

Hein · Jul 28, 2015

Celtec panels look really nice. And I like your honest assessment of the material. Good idea to overlap the joints with fiberglass laminated with CA. That's also a quick surfboard repair technique.

I saw a van with the factory cargo panels just yesterday. They look nice but the light grey Celtec results in a much brighter interior look.

EddieZ · Aug 2, 2015

2nd fan installed

I've now got my 2nd fan installed. I was not sure the MaxxFan would be enough for some hot nights. If Maxx is exhausting, I would not get much flow over the bed. If Maxx is doing intake, it would be blowing down on the bed. Not sure which I'll use most, but, wanted a fan to direct at the bed, regardless. Also, I wanted a fan with the option of directing it to the cab area, or, more importantly, to the sliding door. I often sit in the sliding door step well, when I'm exercising my dog -- when she's taking a break from Frisbee catching. Maxx, on intake, would not provide quite enough airflow at the slider, to make enough difference in comfort.

This fan is a Caframo Bora, sold for marine use. Of all of the "dashboard" or "cabin" type fans I could review online, this one seemed to be most likely to hold up, and looks pretty good. It has 2 easy adjustments in its mount bracket, that allow it to be turned in any direction. My mount location provides for that movement, but keeps it as far out of the way as possible.

The mount bracket is another of my custom weld items. It is attached through a single M8 threaded OEM insert. The unique thing, though, is that it is also supported by an 8.5mm pin, through one of the panel attachment holes. That pin is made from the smooth shank of a 3/8 inch bolt, which I filed down ('turned' it in a drill press) to the hole size. Mainly, the pin keeps the bracket at the proper angle for the placement.

I also tapped threads into the 3/16 inch bar, for the 10-24 threads of the machine screws that hold down the Caframo mount. To make sure there was no vibration against the wall panel, I glued a square of felt to the back of the mount, opposite the fan attachment.

I would have preferred to put the hole for the wiring behind the fan, but, because of the way it articulates, and the way the fan stows near the big white adjusting "nut," the wire had to go to the front.

Today, it was over 95 degrees. I did a test sitting in the door step. The Caframo, alone, was not putting out as much air as I wanted. Ah, but, the MaxxFan and the Caframo did pretty well, together. I think the Caframo will be good for my expected uses.

EddieZ · Aug 7, 2015

I finally revisited the sliding door. It was kind of daunting to insulate, with the sealed dust cover, and all the cables, wires and mechanisms taking up some of the space inside. I was encouraged by post by jethaden, which explained that the butyl rubber gasket needed to be sliced with a razor, between the door and dust cover, as the cover was removed.

Adding insulation without interfering with any of the doodads inside was not so bad. So, I was putting the dust cover back on, and I looked up around the slider window, and noticed that there are 13 openings where dust can still get through (and 4 more with transparent stickies over them, to keep dust out). I had to laugh. I know that must be just a cargo van thing.

While I was at it, I made a new door panel out of gray Celtec -- replacing the darker corrugated OEM panel, and matching the rest of the interior.

Insulating the slider was worth doing, as I can tell that the ride is quieter. That makes me wonder how much road noise comes through the front doors.

EddieZ · Aug 14, 2015

Interior rear door handles

I had posted a thread to get ideas for interior rear door handles. In particular, I wanted the handles to reside in the indents that turned out to be provisions for rear window wiper motors.

There are a couple of good pictures and diagrams of the rear doors on that thread, which may be of continuing value. It was noted that Orton had already found a nice handle, which is available on

. He had mounted a single handle vertically on the right-hand door, using existing holes.

I wanted two handles, rather than just one on the right-hand door. When I did my initial camping test, I found I was using the rear doors a lot, and found myself standing on the rear bumper, reaching for the outer or upper edges of the doors, to close them.

So, it all worked out great. I used dabs from a hot glue gun to test the positions of the handles. I wanted them to match -- difficult to eyeball, due to curves, angles and shadows. It turned out there's a limit to how much one can obsess over the positions, as the door insets have a slightly different "vertical" angle... the forward edge of the right-hand handle dips a bit, as compared to the left-hand setup.

Also, I found the area of the lower rear door to be deceptively large -- that is, a good-sized area to be insulated.

HEY, you can see my finger-slot interior door latch in the photo. Is there another type of latch, with a lever or protrusion? I get the impression there is. I'd like to know what it looks like, as I might try to get one, or modify the one I have.

TNorth · Aug 17, 2015

EddieZ said:
I had posted a thread to get ideas for interior rear door handles. In particular, I wanted the handles to reside in the indents that turned out to be provisions for rear window wiper motors.

There are a couple of good pictures and diagrams of the rear doors on that thread, which may be of continuing value. It was noted that Orton had already found a nice handle, which is available on Amazon. He had mounted a single handle vertically on the right-hand door, using existing holes.

I wanted two handles, rather than just one on the right-hand door. When I did my initial camping test, I found I was using the rear doors a lot, and found myself standing on the rear bumper, reaching for the outer or upper edges of the doors, to close them.

So, it all worked out great. I used dabs from a hot glue gun to test the positions of the handles. I wanted them to match -- difficult to eyeball, due to curves, angles and shadows. It turned out there's a limit to how much one can obsess over the positions, as the door insets have a slightly different "vertical" angle... the forward edge of the right-hand handle dips a bit, as compared to the left-hand setup.

Also, I found the area of the lower rear door to be deceptively large -- that is, a good-sized area to be insulated.

HEY, you can see my finger-slot interior door latch in the photo. Is there another type of latch, with a lever or protrusion? I get the impression there is. I'd like to know what it looks like, as I might try to get one, or modify the one I have.

My bed platform extends all the way to the back doors. The rounded edge of the platform is only 1/4" from the back doors when they are closed. Unfortunately that means I can't reach the back door finger latch. I don't like not being able to open the back door for an emergency or even just fresh air. I'd love to mount a door handle to open the door in the same area you attached your grab handle. When I took off the door panel it looks like something could be attached to push the finger latch down, but I'd like the handle to function by pulling out or up so I won't accidentally open the door leaning against the handle. Right now I'm thinking of a cable that pulls on a lever attached to the inside of the finger latch, but that's a bit crude. If anyone knows a better option please post.

Project: Minimalist with kayak

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