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Couple of options questions

20K views 52 replies 15 participants last post by  foxharp 
#1 ·
I'm looking at getting a new Transit. Have not yet had the dealer search to see what's sitting in stock for possible dealer swap.

I plan to do a light camper van conversion, which, of course, means insulation and paneling. I see the Load Area Protection Package listed alone, 96D, or as part of the Interior Upgrade Package 96C. I wonder if either package is worth whatever the Load Area Protection portion would cost. Would the panels serve well, with insulation behind them?

I know I CAN cut my own panels of thin wood, or that corrugated poly material, etc. But, having pre-fit, perfectly fit, fairly attractive paneling to work with could be a nice head-start.

Also, I'm curious about the 220 amp alternator. I do plan on having coach batteries. I have not yet decided whether to charge them from solar, or from the alternator. And, if from alternator, via an isolator (and whatever else; I'm not fully versed), or -- did I read this right in other threads on this forum... by bridging from the vehicle system, while not actually being integrated into the vehicle system.

For my use profile (mainly running vent fan and small electronics and LED lights semi-regularly), solar may be overkill, not to mention stuff on the roof. Wouldn't the bigger alternator be a good option, then?

Thanks!
 
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#47 ·
Load Area Panels


LOAD AREA PANELS
Looked at a standard wheelbase, medium roof cargo just now with the same question. They appear to be fastened with non-removable plastic rivets though a manual might tell how to remove them. They do cover up nearly every possible attachment point for fitting out. Obviously for delivery people-a side cutter would detach the rivets.
Sales person didn't know anything and the "fleet guy who knows everything" is not available for a single purchase.
At 6'3" in boots my head just touched the roof panel on the medium roof.
 
#3 ·
OH, think I remember the non-isolator method of charging coach batteries, that I had seen: run inverter off the vehicle system, and use that to power a charger with a proper charging profile, for the coach batteries, right?

So, high output alternator would be useful? And, would high output alternator cause poorer gas mileage?
 
#4 ·
Welcome to the community!

All good questions, some answers from my personal experience.

I did not end up with the load area protection, but cut the panels from 5mm ply, works well , but does not look as professional as the factory ones. This effort was lots of work since i decided to secure with plus-nuts ( which appears to be overkill). So, doing it again I would get the factory panels if possible.

Insolation was easy to install by hand, stuffing thinsulate in the cavities required very little effort. The factory panels come off by popping each fastener with a small flathead driver, takes a few seconds each.

I have the 220 alternator, don't think it is a MPG problem since I got 18.6 on my last tank of gas, flat roads, freeway speeds, running with no load.

The factory inverter can be used to charge house batteries, but the rating on this is only 150Watts, so... consider an aftermarket inverter and charger if you go this way.

I went with solar, 200 Watts to run into 200amps house batteries to support fan, fridge, lights and computer charging.

summary:
yes on the L-A-Panels
yes on the HD alternator ( and dual AGM batteries for the truck)
 
#5 ·
The Ford panels are plastic card board material. Depends on what you think of such stuff. I would cover them with something else to make them attractive. Fasteners are push plugs [note: bad description], which are easy to remove and reinstall. I did not get the Ford panels, but the slider is the same material, I believe, on which I base my opinion.

If you want the power point user defined switches, you have to get the 220 amp alternator. I would see no negatives to the larger alternator besides cost. I got it and do not regret choice, but have no good reason so far. Bigger alternator requires or begets dual batteries, I believe. There are several choices on how you charge from engine alternator/main battery to house batteries. One choice, proposed by Orton, is inverter on engine battery feeding 120V to charger on house battery, generally limited to 50+ amps. Alternate method is to tie solenoid between engine and house batteries so lots of current can go to house batteries if required--should only be done if engine and house batteries are of same type (and some would say of same size). Requires large wires between batteries since could be lots of current. Another alternate is DC to DC charge controller from engine battery to house batteries, generally limited to 40 amp area. I have not found multiple good examples of last alternative. All above comments subject to broad generalizations and interpretations.

Neutral but not negative on Ford panels.
Yes on HD alternator, dual AGM, and potentially user defined power point switches.
Also yes on LED cargo lights and slider step (though many think it is too thin).
 
#6 ·
I just ordered van so I haven't even seen all the options I have on order. I did get the uplifter switches which does upgrade the alternator and batteries. I also went with the premium package which ends up giving me the interior panels. I plan to camp and Mtn bike for a while before I start my build so I'm hoping the interior panels will make it a little nicer inside until I start. Also thinking I can either cover them or use them as a template later on.
 
#7 ·
Yes on HD alternator, 4 user defined switches, dual alternator and trailer tow package.

The limit on charging with a vehicle powered inverter is the size of the inverter. My 600 watt inverter in the sold Sprinter could only provide 30 amps of charging due to overheating. Transit will have a 1000 watt inverter properly installed outside any cabinet. Other uses for the inverter are water heating, air heating and running the refrigerator on 120 volt AC while driving to conserve house battery capacity.
I am a strong believer in solar because it can eliminate any user actions. Does depend on weather conditions where you live and travel. Can eliminate all owner involvement with right conditions. I went a full year with only solar charging with a 205 watt panel. Transit will have the same physical size panel rated at 300 watts.
 
#8 ·
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#9 ·
Thanks, all. I've read the comments several times -- still working electrical comprehension.

I test-drove a 148" MR 250 with Ecoboost, today. Very nice ride! Nuthin' to complain about, there. 'Course, I had recently driven a 20-year-old, 21-foot Chevy van RV, which is a nasty beast, by comparison.

Ugh, it looks like I'll have to special order, to get 2-way manual lumbar seats 21C, either alone, or with the interior upgrade package 96C, with the 3.5L engine. I may as well go with the interior package, as I like the sliding door panel's corrugated plastic, as for the load area protection package.

BUT, what are real wait times running, now, for special orders? I had noted long waits indicated, back in mid-2014.

BTW, that corrugated plastic uses a honeycomb pattern, rather than linear channels that cardboard has. That should eliminate worries I had seen expressed on another thread, about potential moisture and mold building up in the corrugations.

On the electrical, I took note of KeithW's post about standard battery and alternator:

"I’m thinking the Transit “base” 150 amp alternator and single starter battery will be able to provide as much as the CTEK can process given the normal loads from the Transit, enabling the alternator to recharge a drawn down house battery with two or three hours of driving. (I say this having been unable to find a figure for the normal operating amp requirements of the transit. The Ford chat line was no help. But the dealer service manager said there should be ample reserve for what I described.)

The service manager also said that the dual battery set up is just the equivalent of a larger starter battery and would be of no value to me if I intend to power all the additions from the separate house battery."

This sort of matches my not-electrically-well-versed thinking:

1) Isn't an alternator doing very little work most of the time, such that the 150 amp std. alternator would have plenty of duty time and capacity to charge house batteries?

2) The twin starter batteries do seem overkill, IF they are primarily intended to be used by owners that DO NOT want to install a house battery system.

...leading me to wonder, how well could a person do, using that upgraded system,and not having house batteries. Let me focus on just running a MaxxFan on high, for example. How long could the optional vehicle batteries run a MaxxFan, continuously? Then, you're just screwed, I presume, when you've used too much juice, and need to start the engine.

Continuing with the MaxxFan on high, how long could a good pair of std. sized house batteries run the fan? And, how long could one of those giant 8D batteries run the fan?

So, say I did NOT have the optional dual vehicle batteries. Does that mean the space under the driver seat is available as an appropriate location for house batteries? Would they fit? Would cabling into a CTEK system be convenient? That gear would have to be several feet away, from the seat pedestal, at least.

Still on house battery location... my unique needs would have me storing water on the driver side of van, so, battery weight might be best on right side, possibly in a box near the fender well, under the bed. Associated equipment would share this location. Would this be OK, with regard to necessary cable runs?

Hey, anyone that reads all of the above, and/or answers, thank you!
 
#10 ·
As for figuring out how long anything would run any particular electrical device (fan or otherwise) you'll have to probably do the calculation yourself. As I don't know what the amp rating is for a Maxx fan, let's make up some numbers.

A device will either have a wattage rating or a amp rating (which is really a power draw number). So if a a device was rated as 1 amp, that generally means that it will draw 1 amp and with a 75 amp hour battery, it would technically run 75 hours. Though that is very misleading as there will be some losses and you really shouldn't run a battery below 50%. So a 1 amp device will run a little less than 37.5 hours.

If the device is rating in watts (and it's a 12vlt device), you'd divide the wattage rating by 12 (or 12.5 to be closer to actual voltage) to obtain the the amperage. So a 1200 watt device would be 100 amps. Then use the same formula as above.

And yes the lower rated alternator would do the trick in a longer period of time. But it will stress it more. As you want this to last as long as possible and the wattage of a factory electrical system is the cheapest you'll get, I'd go for the biggest factory system they have. In this case the 220 amp alternator.

And yes, one battery under your seat would allow for another, but it would have to be the same size as the factory battery as the space is very limited. And there's not a lot of room for extra wiring under there.

As to the distance for your electrical runs. I'd keep them as short as possible. It would be much more efficient to pump the water a bit further than run larger and more expensive wires.

I've probably confused you...
 
#25 ·
orton, Airedrifter, Whitedog or anyone who has their Transit,

Hope you don't object to me asking a question in regards to battery placement?

Anyone having a high roof, 148 wb, is there enough room under the frame, adjacent to the passenger sliding door, to mount an additional battery there? So that it is out of the way and not in a position to be damaged? Thinking of putting a 3rd battery there, the one that will run my lift and other needed equipment.

Also, as my limited knowledge goes, I'm guessing that a "Optum" deap cycle battery would not be the best choice if my trips are 2-4 miles, not at highway speeds, that I should just get a regular car battery with the same amps as the factory ones, just for warranty purposes?

Any pictures of under the frame, in that area with something to show scale, would be appreciated.

Semper Fi
 
#32 ·
I've thought about mounting my house batteries under the floor. With the unibody I'm not sure about finding anchors for the battery box -- particularly for my application that will see a good deal of really bad roads. It's a job that I'm not sure I'm up for. It's on my "to look at" list. There's plenty of room. With a frame, I'd just slap in some 1/2" bolts or weld directly to the frame.

As far as the type of your third battery, that's a tricky one. If you're going to use the alternator and just mount in in parallel with the other two, I'd keep them the same as the two vehicle batteries, if you're going to use a smart charger of some type or configuration, it really won't matter. If you're thinking of two house batteries with a smart charger, keep those the same.

IMHO
 
#43 ·
Will Ford's optional inverter OR 12 V outlets provide juice when the engine is turned off?
I know the optional rear power point provides power with engine off. I believe someone here posted that it provides power to 20+ minutes after engine is turned off. I have not tested front 12 volt points nor do I have little inverter option.
 
#35 ·
Airedrifter, no, that post didn't confuse me. I've enjoyed reading the other q's and a's, here, too.

Orton, does that 60 amp terminal at the driver seat base exist on the standard, 1-battery setup? If so, then I think this could be my route, too:

Orton: "Suggestion: Use a larger pure sine inverter and power it with the 60 amp terminal at drivers seat base. You will need a type T fuse and a disconnect between the terminal and the inverter. The inverter, fuse,disconnect, battery charger and battery could be in one container. Connect to Ford terminal and to a ground to power the modular battery system."

lkruper: "Thank you Orton. I just saved a permalink for that! With 60 amps I can charge the house batteries in less than 4 hours. That is the equivalent of having 720W of solar panels."

I bought a Transit from dealer stock. When I read about the 2015 special orders being closed, on top of what had been a long wait, anyway, I decided to buy now. So, no optional alternator or dual batteries for me.

I'll post an intro, and a bunch more questions, in the relevant forum.
 
#36 ·
Believe all Transits have one 60 amp terminal. When you buy the 4 used defined switches you get three 60 amp terminals and the dual batteries. Ford has a kit that allows you to add the second battery. When you get two batteries they are AGM and with one it is flooded. The single 60 amp terminal is in the same housing as the three so suspect you could add terminals and fuses to get to the three.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I'm not sure about a lot of things and to compare Orton's system to mine is difficult as we go about things much differently. But here's a recap of mine.

I have two banks of batteries (400 ah total) that can be charged by AC through shore power, they all can be charged via the 220 amp alternator, they all can be charged by solar the controller is installed, and the power of each bank can be shared to start the vehicle or run the house system as necessary and appropriate.

I have a 1100 watt inverter and an automatic transfer switch that will switch either the shore power, the preferred source, or the inverter, to all the AC outlets in the van.
the only time I have to activate a manual switch is when I'm joining the 4 batteries into one source. That would only happen in very unusual circumstances, like jumping the vehicle off using the house batteries.

Mine is a bit expensive. I'm sure if I added it all up I have about $700 in it. But it works, it's transparent, and it's as versatile as it can be.

There are several videos in my thread that discuss the impetus to the design.
 
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#49 ·
Upfitter switches

To use the upfitter switches to operate something in the dash area, do you connect the wiring behind the switches in the center console, or below the drivers seat.

Semper Fi
 
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