Project: Minimalist with kayak - Ford Transit USA Forum
 76Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 210 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 12:31:AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
Project: Minimalist with kayak

I've taken the first step in personalizing my new Transit. It's going to be my daily driver, and, I need to be able to transport a 14-foot kayak, INSIDE, either for local day trips, or for away trips, once I'm set up for camping.

For 15 years, I've carried a kayak on an elevated rack, over my pickup bed. I will happily give up the elevated storage, especially with moving to high-roofed (MR Transit) van. As I get older, floor level kayak storage will be better, and, there are other advantages to having it indoors. My 16 and 17-foot kayaks have sat unused for 2 years, as I had already favored the 14-footer -- a Dagger Alchemy -- for all-around fun.

So, 11 1/2 foot cargo box, 14-foot boat. I needed the space under the passenger seat, but, I did not want to completely remove the seat. I needed to make a convertible seat base. Fortunately, my kayaks are NOT of the chunky sit-on-top variety. In the photos you will see my 13 1/2 foot "dog boat," the widest of my kayaks. The width fit is very close with this mod.

You'll see the seat is removed, along with the hydraulic bottle jack. The jack mounting bracket was held down with the 3 too-long bolts in the center area. I later cut those bolts to a shorter length, rather than remove them completely. I will put acorn nuts on them, for safety and possible future use.

The non-moving base parts, held down by the original mounting bolts. Primary material is 1.25 inch, 14 gauge square tubing. Heavier base angle is 2 inch by 3/16 inch.

The moving parts, during a fitting. I made lift of about 7 1/4 inches from normal position. That's an inch more than I thought I needed, to allow for the thickness of a plywood or other floor in the cargo area.

Success - view from behind, and side view of the seat raised above the kayak bow.

Space under the seat is pretty clear, except for that one cross-piece for the seat adjuster. It turns out I would have been fine with an inch less lift. There are 60 pieces that I had to make, plus 8 bronze bushings and 2 hitch pins that were purchased at Lowes.

No, the seat is not to be used when it's raised to accommodate a kayak.

No, I'm not a professional welder.

Yes, I still need to clean it up and paint it.

No, my setup might not get the same crash test rating as the Ford engineered pedestal. But, it will rarely be used by another person.

While I have your attention, please see my next post, below. Concept questions I need to resolve, before proceeding with my light camper van build.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030581_goal.jpg (275.6 KB, 670 views)
File Type: jpg P1030580_bow_position.jpg (237.4 KB, 598 views)
File Type: jpg P1030579_floor.jpg (209.1 KB, 581 views)
File Type: jpg P1030587_fixed_parts.jpg (231.0 KB, 570 views)
File Type: jpg P1030592_moving_parts.jpg (265.2 KB, 598 views)
File Type: jpg P1030604_result_bow.jpg (246.0 KB, 583 views)
File Type: jpg P1030602_result_rear.jpg (245.9 KB, 580 views)
File Type: jpg P1030606_collapsed.jpg (290.9 KB, 580 views)
File Type: jpg P1030608_normal_mode.jpg (256.6 KB, 565 views)

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by EddieZ; 05-07-2015 at 06:14:AM.
EddieZ is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 210 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 12:35:AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
Left-right weight distribution

In my van, the kayak location is a limiting factor. The floor space on right of van must remain clear, thus, that is not a good location for bulky-heavy items like cabinets, water, batteries. The only "useful" floor space would be ahead of and behind the wheel wells.

So, the only thing that has made sense is to put the bed on the right side. I expect to make it hinged on the wall, so that it can be folded out of the way. It may have legs or chains for support. It will probably have the mattress on all the time. In memory foam or latex, the mattress might be 40 lbs.

I figure to have a base cabinet along the left wall -- maybe full height in the back half. I really only want simple jerry cans for water storage -- put, say, three for drinking water under the counter, with easy access door, and a 4th for grey water from a simple sink. Probably set up a 12v pump, with feed tube that can be swapped between cans. MOST of the time, the water cans would be empty.

It looks like the cabinet just behind driver seat is the logical position for house batteries, so that's more weight on the left side, and it would be carried all the time.

If it could help my weight distribution, I would consider a chassis mounted, dedicated water tank. Unfortunately, the right chassis space does not look as good as the left, for clear space and mounting options. BUT, maybe someone has ideas on appropriate tank and mounting for that right side space. And, I'm not going to have the elevated floor that some install in the high roof Transits. So, water line would have to run... under the cargo box? (I don't live or travel in extreme cold.) Pex through wall and ceiling space? Or, maybe just along the front edge of whatever floor I put in, where it would have some protection?

Maybe I'm missing something that would help. Or, maybe I'm not going to have enough weight bias to really matter in a vehicle with such high weight capacity.

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EddieZ is online now  
post #3 of 210 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 10:18:AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
I did find you seat raising technique very impressive but ... is there enough room to mount the kayak under the roof so that it projects into the front over the passenger seat? This would give you some floor space for heavy items on the right. It would also make the sliding door more usable when the kayak is there.

Terry
Nova Scotia, Canada

Last edited by tthrsn; 05-07-2015 at 10:31:AM.
tthrsn is online now  
post #4 of 210 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 01:22:PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthrsn View Post
I did find you seat raising technique very impressive but ... is there enough room to mount the kayak under the roof so that it projects into the front over the passenger seat? This would give you some floor space for heavy items on the right. It would also make the sliding door more usable when the kayak is there.
Thanks, and thank you for considering my weight distribution quandary. There isn't enough high and clear roof length up front to do that, unless the boat was down in the windshield area. And, my other kayak is 6 inches longer than the one shown.

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by EddieZ; 05-07-2015 at 02:11:PM.
EddieZ is online now  
post #5 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 01:58:PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
I've had analysis paralysis. Have been considering purchase of commercial wall and ceiling (and even floor) liner kits. In another thread, I had looked at the economics and quality of liner kits. I had determined that doing it myself with Celtec -- my preferred material -- would cost at least $1062, while kits from Legend, via Inlad, would cost $1448.

Today, I finally found a way to get Celtec for less, through a plastics supplier in Atlanta. I just ordered sheets of 6mm gray Celtec for $68 each, and $139 shipping for 8 of 'em, total of $685. I think the liners can be done with 7 sheets, so, I'll have 1 extra backup sheet. So, I'll be saving $250 over my previous DIY estimate, and more than $600 over buying kits from Inlad.

Will it be Celtec light grey, or dark grey? I don't know! The supplier was unsure, from his available data. Either will be OK. Light grey, more like the pewter seats. Dark grey, more like the slider door panel, and other charcoal accents.

I've been worried about how to join panels of Celtec, for the ceiling. When I was talking to Hein, ordering Thinsulate, he mentioned that Celtec bonds well with CA glue (similar to Superglue). Hein even makes interior van furnishings with thicker pieces of Celtec, and CA glue. Now, I think I can work out edge bonding with CA, possibly with router cut-edges, if necessary.

For the record, the Legend liners are made of their Duratherm, and, I eventually learned that the material consists of two layers of HDPE, with corrugated or other hollow material between them.

Also, for benefit of others, I eventually found another liner kit for less money. But, it appears too soft, as photos show the fastener buttons causing indents in the material.

And, for benefit of me, for reference, I'm collecting below, some of the other threads I've started to try and gather info needed to begin my build:

Door steps and flooring thickness

Hanging stuff under chassis, anyone?

Couple of options questions

New owner, new project in Georgia

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by EddieZ; 06-08-2015 at 05:59:PM.
EddieZ is online now  
post #6 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-08-2015, 05:43:PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
I was given a link to Clips and Fasteners, for OEM type push retainers, like those holding on the liner panel on the sliding door. It looks like this is the one we need for the Transit liner panels. Specs say it fits into an 8mm hole and has 20mm stem length. Our holes are 9mm. But, an OEM pin does fit into an 8mm hole (and, there are some 8mm holes in the ceiling beams), and it expands to 12mm.

But wait, Clips and Fasteners has another same-same item that "replaces Ford #N807389S ", and it's less expensive.

But wait! I go to check out, and shipping is $14.

But wait --
Go to Amazon Go to Amazon
, and select Clips and Fasteners as the vendor, and shipping is free!

$29 for 150 push retainers. That's about 1/3 of what I feared they might cost.

Oh, and, I had contacted Inlad, to ask if the push retainers included with liner kits are re-usable -- like OEM. Or, were they, possibly the simple serrated posts that get mangled when you remove them? This is important if you expect to have ready access behind the panels, as you continue a build. The guy was not crystal clear in his text, but, did say that the fasteners pushed in, and should, ideally, not be removed.

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by EddieZ; 06-08-2015 at 06:04:PM.
EddieZ is online now  
post #7 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 01:04:AM
Member
 
perchancetodream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Very clever. I solved my kayak problem by buying a 10 footer to go with the 130 LR...some day
perchancetodream is offline  
post #8 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-09-2015, 03:57:AM
Senior Member
 
kenjent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Very clever design. Your design would also work for mounting items such as additional batteries under the van. Raise when travel and drop down for access and service of battery.

Sterling Grey XLT Wagon, 3.5 EB, 3.31 Rear Axle, LWB, Medium Roof, 12 Passengers.
kenjent is offline  
post #9 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 06:36:PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
My MaxxFan install

I'll make a few comments about the fan install I did today -- just the stuff that may be different, or insightful, or annoying. It's already been covered by others, with lots of photos:

Orton

Skagitstan

jethaden

Beridian

The most unique thing about my install may be that I did the entire thing from inside the van. I only had to climb a ladder on the outside, to do the final placement of the MaxxFan into the installed flange**. If you're skinny, you may be able to pull this off, as well. I could not think of a good way to get high enough and stable enough on the medium roof van to work on the exterior. And, I think the unsupported roof areas will distort or bend if you look at them wrong.

My goal was to try to maintain the roof's curve by adding side shims cut from vinyl brick molding. I did trial and error on the subtle angle, until I got it right. The scales on my saws are not very expensive or precise, but, the angle is 2 1/2 to 3 degrees. See photos.

I cut the hole with a jigsaw, yes, from the inside. Instead of drilling corner holes, I drilled 5 closely spaced holes in the middle of each side. I cut between the holes with a Dremel with metal cutting wheel. Then, I was able to cut from the middle, to the corners with the clunky jigsaw. This was a bit awkward doing the transverse cuts, having to hand-support one edge of the saw's foot, while riding the tape-protected cross-beam on the other edge. I had to finish off 1/2 inch in 4 places, with a handle mounted hack saw blade.

Like others, I clamped all of the parts together to drill holes. I had already fit some wood for the underside, which will maintain the spacing under the ceiling liner, and the MaxxFan trim piece will screw into the wood. I had put some cross-grooves in the upper surface of the wood pieces, so that on final assembly, I could apply some 3M 5200 and get better adhesion, to have permanent pieces, there. Not that I ever want to remove the MaxxFan flange, but, if I did, I would not have to deal with the wooden spacer blocks, again. tthrsn has good info on using 5200 to attach wood to metal.

I used butyl tape for the initial seal of all exterior parts to one another, and to the roof. I think I had 5 layers of tape at the widest gaps at the sides of the front and rear edges, near the vinyl side spacers. One photos shows the butyl material after I had trimmed it with a plastic picnic knife. There's no pic, but, I later applied Dicor 501 caulk (which one MaxxAir video, I think, favored) all around, and over the screw heads.

That's all the good stuff.

Here's the bad stuff about the install.

I try to do things right, so I will be satisfied when I look at them, and be proud to show them off to others. Sometimes **** happens. I'll blame Ford for this one, although, under more ideal circumstances (more forethought, less pressure to get work done while it's not "supposed" to rain, more available assistance, maybe more experience, etc), I could have done better.

"What, what, tell us what you're talking about!"

Well, my vinyl side spacers are nice and perfect, and the fan sits perfectly on the roof panel. BUT, the roof panel does not sit perfectly on the roof crossbeam supports! Id say it's about 1/8 inch higher on one side, and, if you're looking for it in the interior, you can notice this by the thickness of the anti-vibration foam between the parts. So, the roof is lopsided, but would not normally be noticed. Now, from the rear, particularly with the vent open, there's a noticeable tilt to the fan assembly, in relation to the van (of course lopsided roof line is not visible). I'm really pissed about it. Pissed at Ford, and at myself. I could have compensated for this by adjusting the thicknesses of the vinyl side spacers.

** My statement about only using the ladder on the exterior one time is not quite true. I had to take a detour after getting the cutting and filing done, to vacuum up metal filings on the roof. This was a bad scene. You have LESS time than you think, to get all that stuff. We had some humidity today, and some of the smaller, barely visible bits started to attach firmly to the paint finish. And, the filings and chips vibrated and moved on down the grooves in the van top, to near the front of the roof. I could not vacuum them while standing on my ladder, up through the 14x14 inch hole. Had to move around the exterior, climbing the ladder with big shop vac in hand, awkwardly vacuuming everywhere. I still don't think I got it all. And, the places where the microbits clung on, I'm going to re-visit after I drive into town to get a mild scrub sponge, which I'll try using with denatured alcohol, or maybe just car wash soap.

Whether cutting from inside or from outside, it would be best to have another person on the outside, chasing the cut with a vacuum brush-fitting.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030659_vent1.jpg (71.8 KB, 309 views)
File Type: jpg P1030661_vent3.jpg (138.2 KB, 319 views)
File Type: jpg P1030660_vent2.jpg (68.0 KB, 291 views)

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by EddieZ; 06-13-2015 at 09:29:PM.
EddieZ is online now  
post #10 of 210 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 09:12:PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
EddieZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Garage
Panel Fasteners

I received the "GM push-type retainer" panel fasteners from Clips and Fasteners, today. They are perfect. Difficult to tell from Ford's OEM parts, as found on the sliding door panel in a cargo van. See photo. Not a great photo -- makes the C&P fastener (left) to look a bit rough in comparison to OEM (right)... but, they're just fine. These are SKU: PAS1860-25 for pack of 25, $4.79. The piece is noted to replace Ford N807389S. 150 of 'em for $28.74, and free shipping. There's an Amazon link, in my previous post.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030664_panel_fasteners.jpg (80.1 KB, 170 views)

Transit 250 Cargo MR LWB 3.5L w/3.31

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EddieZ is online now  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Minimalist Conversion JP4 Camper Vans and Conversions 107 11-21-2016 02:56:AM
New owner, new project in Georgia EddieZ Introductions 7 04-22-2015 03:12:PM
LB Minimalist Conversion Longboard Camper Vans and Conversions 28 03-05-2015 12:43:PM
Project Time vnehess Introductions 1 12-10-2014 04:52:AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off