[Eiko]

Pretty sure that that rubber boot is on the rear horizontal stud at the hinge, not the forward stud like the manual shows.

yup. Just checked mine and the rubber boot is on the rear stud. I couldn't get it off with my fingers. The front stud isn't painted though so it looks like it'd also be fine as a ground terminal. So much for the official manual.

 

[scase]

yup. Just checked mine and the rubber boot is on the rear stud. I couldn't get it off with my fingers. The front stud isn't painted though so it looks like it'd also be fine as a ground terminal. So much for the official manual.

The rear stud could be a better ground.

 

[Travlin]

Got some quality time in today on the floor. Added underlayment to the plywood with 3M 90 and trimmed to fit.

Was planning on cutting strips of Thinsulate CS150 to fit in the valleys of the metal floor, then decided just to cut panels to cover the floor and lay the plywood underlayment on top. I measured the CS150 and once it relaxes it is 0.5 in. thick, so will fill the space in the valleys and be compressed on the ribs without adding a lot of altitude to the floor. Nor, putting me though the trouble of cutting all the strips.

At the second break in the ribs I strung a pull string for later use if I want to get some wires across, under the floor. I left a gap there in the CS150 to allow an easy pull.

The previous owner had upfitted, so there were eight Rivnuts in the floor that I drilled the plywood to use. I'll get some of the countersunk hex bolts on a trip to HD tomorrow that will set flush with the ply.

With no floor I measured sound at different speeds and got 45 mph - 67db; 55 - 74db; 70 - 80db. This was using the Sound Analyzer app on an Android phone, set to LCF.
After installing the floor and wheelwell covers it read 55 mph - 69db; and 70 - 76db. I could tell the difference. Looking forward to seeing the readings once I have the walls and ceiling insulated.

Here's pics from today. Some may notice the windshield screen moved from overhead to storing it behind the passenger seat utilizing a velcro edged fabric panel that came with the van.

 

[Travlin]

Battery Update

Installed the WalMart replacement battery today. Everything went smoothly on that front. Upon starting the engine and turning on the radio in the Android HU I was a bit shocked to see that it had lost the station programming. Everything else, app-wise, was as I had left it. Oh well not sure whose brilliant idea that was to leave stations in volatile memory for that app.

After putting some miles on it today the MPG seems to be reading a little better economy. Being disconnected from the battery likely reset things so it is now mapping anew, based upon my driving style, which is probably quite a change from urban plumbing truck to rural covered wagon. It had been reading around 16.3 fairly consistently before. After about fifty miles today it has been climbing and was reading 18 when I parked it this evening.

 

[Travlin]

Hi Travlin,
Can you provide links and item numbers for the running boards you installed? They look great and I need the extra steps to get in and out.
Thanks

Here's a link to the page for the Transit running boards I purchased.

This link shows the "No-Drill" Mud Flaps

 

[Travlin]

Another great day for van work.

Have installed L-Track on 1x4 and put 1x3 strips up high on both sides. After seeing the OEM bolts I decided not to put L-Track on the high pieces and drilled the 1x3 for access to these anchor points on both sides. 5 on the driver side, 3 on the passenger side. Should be more than adequate for overhead storage or whatever I may need to attach. Some of the L-Track bolts required using a coat hanger and Elmer's Wood glue to put the nut on the back side of several of the harder to reach attach points. There are a couple of washers lost in the voids now. I don't expect to lose much sleep over them.

Once done with that I started the insulation project. Working with the Thinsulate CS150 was a breeze. Doing the lower parts of the walls first, attaching with adhesive when needed, then moving to the large panels. In most places I have two layers of CS150, providing R-3.4, which will be behind Polyiso with an additional R-5. Some final Thinsulate left to do tomorrow, then the R-Max Polyiso will be cut to fit between the upper and lower wood strips. Wood and Polyiso both being 3/4" should flush out nicely.

This will be covered with 1/4" Luan. (I have a stack of it left over from a 5th-wheel make-over that died a horrible death fifteen years ago) Bought some Danish Oil to finish the Luan, but long term plan is to add some fabric over another layer of Thinsulate CS150 to the side panels. I'm really liking how the CS150 lets me use just what I need by layering.

Did the ceiling in its first layer of Thinsulate CS150, will probably add a second layer (R-1.7/ layer) and then either 1/2" or 3/4" R-Max Polyiso, and finish with Luan. Left the rearmost 2 panels uninsulated for now. Plan to shoot some temp readings tomorrow to see what one layer does, then repeat as I add layers.

Before spraying the 3M 90 adhesive on the ceiling I decided to relocate the wiring for the front pair of cargo lights. I'll need to get some photos, but what I did was cut the wire loom loose from the ceiling cross member, then fished it inside that cross member to the two light locations. (still leaving them unplugged for now, at least until I get a switch installed) I repurposed one of the rubber grommets on that loom to protect the loom at the new point it is entering the cross member.

Here's today's photos:

 

[Travlin]

Regarding the H-channel between the plywood sheets, it didn't work out. The 11/32" ply was too big for the 1/4" channel. I didn't have a big enough hammer to make it work.

The eight bolt holes left from the upfitting that came with the van now have stainless flat head screws tying the front and middle plywood panels down. Except for one hole where the Rivnut was damaged and now the bolt is stuck and the Rivnut is spinning. Gonna spend some special time under the van with some vice grips tomorrow. Hopefully I can get to that side of it without having to take other stuff apart.

 

[Alison]

Just ordered your running boards
I'm looking forward to your floor installation. I was originally going to keep the factory vinyl/insulation, but after a similar issue with the wet pad I've been thinking about taking it all out and using cork too. I'm 5'11" so also trying to keep as much interior height as possible. Are you planning on attaching anything to the floor or using the L-track exclusively?

 

[Travlin]

Just ordered your running boards
I'm looking forward to your floor installation. I was originally going to keep the factory vinyl/insulation, but after a similar issue with the wet pad I've been thinking about taking it all out and using cork too. I'm 5'11" so also trying to keep as much interior height as possible. Are you planning on attaching anything to the floor or using the L-track exclusively?

At this time my plan is to only attach things to the L-Track or upper built-in anchor nuts.

 

[Travlin]

Today I was burning some time off, lest I lose it. Got some of the R-Max installed and got a photo of the cargo light wiring change.

The R-Max went in well, friction fit at this point. After a fifty mile drive there wasn't a squeak to be heard. Should that change I have a backup plan.

During the drive I was astonished how much quieter it is. The CS150 has done an amazing job of reducing the rumble.

Measured the sound levels:
45mph 57 db
65mph 65 db
75mph 71 db

I'm pretty sure the van is now less noisy than my Subaru Forester. And, I still have the cab overhead and all doors to install Thinsulate in.

Now to plan out the Cork click-lock floating floor for plank placement to minimize waste and avoid adjacent seam alignments. Gonna have to put my thinking cap on for this.

Okay, here's today's Kodak moments ...

 

[alan&joni]

any luck on the temp readings ....Thanks,Alan

 

[Travlin]

any luck on the temp readings ....Thanks,Alan

I gave it a go, but the temps were mild. I had been working with the doors open and a breeze blowing in the slider and out the back.

Shooting the uncovered panel on the sliding door (where the window is on vans so equipped) as it was facing South at mid day, this showed 101 degrees F, and shooting Thinsulate covered panels (one layer of CS150) on the same side registered in the mid 80's. But, so did shooting metal framework that wasn't in direct sunlight. This temp was slightly higher than the ambient temp. I suppose that is what I should expect to see, the insulation not allowing heat gain. If so, yippie!

I'm trying to devise a method to take readings that would return conclusive data. Just need to work out parameters that will show useful results.

 

[Hack Saw]

T- after doing a all your homework and a great job, you think there is any truth to the following link of R-38?
...or is this something I am being mislead by being rated at 80 degrees?
http://www.transitaccessories.com/insulation.php

 

[phil]

I contacted those people about the R-38 claim and they are just repeating what their supplier told them, there is no way you can get R-38 at 3/8". It's to good to be true. Save your money.

 

[Travlin]

T- after doing a all your homework and a great job, you think there is any truth to the following link of R-38?
...or is this something I am being mislead by being rated at 80 degrees?
http://www.transitaccessories.com/insulation.php

Well, I don't see any reference to data supporting the claim. It reminds me somewhat of the foil-coated insulation claims to high R values. Once you read the fine print on those products you find that the test that generated the result was installing it between two 2x6 rafters with some minimum number of inches of air space (4"?) unattainable in a van install. Without this airspace their R-5 claims go down to R-1.

They put that reference to 80 degrees in the description of that product for a reason. Whatever that reason is wasn't further explained.

Another problem I have with their claim is the fact that they aren't covering the ribs with anything. Yet, I've seen photos of someone's build, maybe Antoine's, on a cold morning with condensation on the outside of the van except where the ribs are attached. Yeah, here's the photo from the FarOutVan website.

Heat from the warm inside air was being conducted out from the van through the metal ribs into the outside panels. Only the places with condensation represent the insulated parts. Based on what Antoine discovered my build will cover any ribs left exposed with one layer of CS150, or at the very least some fabric or indoor/outdoor carpet to put something that prevents or slows conducting of heat through the metal between the air in the living space and the panels outside.

Granted, reefer vans can be created by spraying thick enough foam, and with refrigeration units can sustain sub-zero temps. The R value on those might be pretty high, but they cover every surface inside the cargo area. I've read of people buying used reefer trucks to convert to RVs who are thrilled with the results. But, to have that level of insulation installed probably isn't cost effective for an application that isn't making a profit enough to justify the expense.

Lastly, for most van builds what added benefit would R-38 offer to someone who is not using AC? All we need insulation for is to prevent heat from the outside panels increasing the inside temperature above ambient (and vice-versa in cold environments). At best, with fan ventilation, the temp will be about the same as under a shade tree in the heat. In the cold all that is needed is to retain heat inside in order to minimize use of the heat source of choice. R-5 might be a reasonable value to aim for in a temperate climate. Higher levels are gravy, or necessary for a lot of cold weather camping in those places where it could be more useful.

Not saying the claim is a lie, but it isn't the whole truth either. It is a bold statement and I'm suspicious enough to want to know more about the specifics of the tests that determined this number before I'd throw that kind of money at it.

I'm aiming to have R-8 in the walls and R-10 in the ceiling for roughly $320.00. This includes Thinsulate CS150 (375 ft.sq.) with shipping costs ($210.00), 3 panels of 3/4" R-Max ($45.00) and 2 panels of 1" R-Max ($40.00), plus 2 cans of 3M 90 spray adhesive ($25.00).

I don't know if this covers the question, but that is the way I'd look at it. This sounds more like the seller misunderstood after being told it would provide R-3.8 and misquoted it as R-38.

 

[alan&joni]

Today I was burning some time off, lest I lose it. Got some of the R-Max installed and got a photo of the cargo light wiring change.

The R-Max went in well, friction fit at this point. After a fifty mile drive there wasn't a squeak to be heard. Should that change I have a backup plan.

During the drive I was astonished how much quieter it is. The CS150 has done an amazing job of reducing the rumble.

Measured the sound levels:
45mph 57 db
65mph 65 db
75mph 71 db

I'm pretty sure the van is now less noisy than my Subaru Forester. And, I still have the cab overhead and all doors to install Thinsulate in.

Now to plan out the Cork click-lock floating floor for plank placement to minimize waste and avoid adjacent seam alignments. Gonna have to put my thinking cap on for this.

Okay, here's today's Kodak moments ...

could you have fit another layer or two of CS-150 before you put on the R-MAX ?...Thanks

 

[Travlin]

could you have fit another layer or two of CS-150 before you put on the R-MAX ?...Thanks

I could have likely fit another three or four layers in many of those spaces. Some of the cavities are pretty deep. Figure on 10 mm (.41 in.) and R-1.7 per layer and measure the available depth to, say, a board spanning the cavity. I did it this way so the R-Max would put an insulator between the ribs and the air space, eliminating the issue mentioned earlier that Antoine discovered.

Considering how many folks are pretty happy with one layer of SM600L going beyond three or so layers of CS150 might be overkill. Unless an AC unit is planned or other factors justify a higher R value.

If acoustic damping is the goal, putting a layer or two in the doors and other places I haven't done yet might yield less noise without further layering in areas already covered.

This should provide some basic data to plan with.

 

[Hack Saw]

I could have likely fit another three or four layers in many of those spaces. Some of the cavities are pretty deep. Figure on 10 mm (.41 in.) and R-1.7 per layer and measure the available depth to, say, a board spanning the cavity. I did it this way so the R-Max would put an insulator between the ribs and the air space, eliminating the issue mentioned earlier that Antoine discovered.

Considering how many folks are pretty happy with one layer of SM600L going beyond three or so layers of CS150 might be overkill. Unless an AC unit is planned or other factors justify a higher R value.

If acoustic damping is the goal, putting a layer or two in the doors and other places I haven't done yet might yield less noise without further layering in areas already covered.

This should provide some basic data to plan with.

T- So if I got this right, for a given void to be insulated to it's full potential relative to an R-rating, CS150 is superior to SML600 once you take it's ability to multi-layer in that same void? Being less expensive per sq/ft, it is also a better value per sq/ft given two similar R-values? So you already did your install? Assuming this is for cold, what heat/heater source are you running? Must'a missed that.

 

[Travlin]

T- So if I got this right, for a given void to be insulated to it's full potential relative to an R-rating, CS150 is superior to SML600 once you take it's ability to multi-layer in that same void? Being less expensive per sq/ft, it is also a better value per sq/ft given two similar R-values? So you already did your install? Assuming this is for cold, what heat/heater source are you running? Must'a missed that.

It would appear from the published specs provided for CS150 that it may have a higher R value by thickness. I haven't been able to find a 3M Datasheet, but all of the vendors' reference R-1.67 or 1.7 for the 10mm thickness. This does indicate 3 layers of CS150 provides the same R value of SM600L in 3/4 the thickness.

Having the choice to install it in 10mm sections allows some flexibility that using a single thicker layer does not in thin spaces. Compressing any insulator will reduce the effectiveness. For me the overall cost using the CS150 was a key factor in choosing it, with the knowledge that it will take a few minutes more to cut and install it as layers. That aspect wasn't much of a hassle for me. Everything seems to take longer than I expect. ha ha

Another thing in my installation is how there is an airspace of a few inches between the foil of the R-Max and the Thinsulate allowing that radiant barrier the space it needs to reflect any radiant heat. This is why I purposely didn't fill the empty space with Thinsulate layers.

I have completed most of the insulation installation (say that ten times fast) and still have the two rear-most ceiling panels to do (holding off until after installing a fan); and the panel on the slider (trying to decide if I want to put a window there). Also have plans to put CS150 inside the five doors and over the cab area. So, not finished yet, and expect to net a little more heat control and sound damping from those efforts.

Being in Texas, my primary concern is preventing heat gain from the sun shining on the metal van in the warmer months. Heating the van is secondary, but I am leaning more toward Orton's solution of a 12 Volt heated blanket and a quality sleeping bag first.

There is a lot to work out for a more comprehensive plan for the overall electrical side of the project that may include solar, house batteries, induction stovetop, heating, and other loads. I'm doing my build to allow easy access to the areas I may need to run wires and cabling.

My initial goal is to create a van that can carry my mountain bike, gear, and tools on board, allowing me to catch a ride easily after work, or, to go to other nearby trails (within 100 miles) and camp overnight to allow riding in the morning before the Summer sun is scorching. Also, it will be used for MTB and non-MTB vacations. Having the means to stealth camp along the way, and/or use an RV park at the destination is nice. This project will progress into higher levels of self-containment and self-sufficiency over time. My timeline for this was always planned to extend over at least a year or two. This breaks the cost out over time and lets me research more about what others have done and hash out what will work for me.

 

[orton]

Being in Texas, my primary concern is preventing heat gain from the sun shining on the metal van in the warmer months. Heating the van is secondary, but I am leaning more toward Orton's solution of a 12 Volt heated blanket and a quality sleeping bag first.

12 volt heating pad not a heated blanket. Electro-Warmth brand.

Heating pad works but has advantages and disadvantages. Your body is warm in the sleeping pad but your head is outside the bag and it gets cold. A balaclava solved that if you do not mind looking like an idiot. Getting up in a cold van is not pleasant. I have the remote start option that allows starting the engine before getting out of bed to warm van interior. Do not know how well the pad would work in very cold conditions. Have not tried that. Heating pad is very stealth because it is quiet and the refrigerator runs less in a cold van.

Next experiment will be using insulated curtains on each side of the bed platform to try and retain some of the heating pad and body heat. Think it will work but we will see. Sleeping space between bed platform and ceiling and on each side of the bed will be insulated.