solar panels

i'm hoping to get 1000 watts or more fixed on the roof and and at least 1000 watts more in portable panels. while it would be nice to charge the van's battery directly from solar panels that is not likely to be an option anytime soon if ever. if we are really lucky they might make some purpose built EV RVs that can do this but even then i doubt it will allow input of a large array and again not anytime soon nor do i want some clunky premade RV. thus i will need to to have a separate storage/power management system to use the solar to charge the van

 

heating/cooling [most likely mini-split]

not too surprising but disappointing still is the lack of 6k BTU mini-split options for 115/120v plugs, however, researching how to best setup a 230/240v system in the van forced me to think about things i should have already given some thought to, namely how to "fast" charge the van from the separate battery system [spoiler you can't fast charge from 120v]. there will be more info in the battery system post but 240v system will not be an issue and it gives me more better options [eg 240v high watt portable induction 'burner']

the leading contenders are the MSZ-FS06NA or MUZ-FS06NAH with a 33 SEER rating and only 300 watt @ 200 sq feet, it will use very little power to heat/cool a van. i don't have soild data but it seems that the higher the SEER rating the heavier the unit. also 240v units seem to be a little lighter than 120v units and 12v units are really heavy. not that it will help me but many manufactures 6k, 9k and often 12k units are the same size and very close in weight. that would imply that would would be possible to make a smaller, lighter 6k unit. i assume they don't to save on production costs. for the 6k and 9k units the lightest i've seen was 100lbs [25, 75] but that was a SEER 20, and the heaviest was the carrier 42 SEER 9k 150lbs [35, 115]. though the 12v was 190lbs, if the 12v unit can be mounted underneath the van it might make it back into the consideration list, however, i'm not sure my current power system would work well with a 12v unit. ideally i would like to find a 120v or 240v 6k system that can be mounted underneath the van [it would also be nice if they purpose built a 6k unit and did not just use the parts from 9k units]

 

separate battery system [cabin battery]

i've been thinking about an RV that would be able to charge the host vehicle for a long time now and since i've built a few EVs from scratch i was originally assuming i would just build my own battery pack, charging system [both shore, van and solar], battery management system, inverter, monitors, fuses, safety, etc... however, the 'portable'/backup battery power systems has exploded in the past few years. there are lots out there and what's nice is they are complete systems. i would have a hard time beating the prices with my own custom system [unless i had used parts] so i'm thinking i will just use a premade system. they have units going well beyond 10k kWh so they will meet my needs easily and they have both 120v and 240v options. i've not looked in depth with all of them but at first glace a couple have popped on my radar: bluetti and ecoflow.

there are some unexpected pit-falls using these systems with my intended setup. first to get 240 volts you need to identical matching units paired together. that is not an issue, since these units are designed to be 'stacked' to get greater capacity and i was planning on get two or three to reach my power needs, however, the ecoflow for example will not allow you use 120 while it is configured for 240 so i would need three ecoflow units to cover my needs which would be 9kWh which is fine. the sticking point would be charging. would i be able to connect all my solar to all of the units or would i need to dedicate some solar to one and the rest to the other? these are answers i would need to know. i've not dug to deep into bluetti but they seem to have a similar setup. i'm not going to spend too much time on this right now as i won't need a final solution for a few more years and by then there will likely be more options.

furthermore, these systems have built in 'through put' technology. i could also have had such a thing with my own custom system but it would be trickier and more expensive. through put allows for a fluid transfer, exchange and change of inputs and outputs. so could be charging van at 240 volts and running some 120 volt stuff [lights, refrigerator, etc...] from the cabin battery while simultaneously inputting power from shore and solar panels. this allows for a lot of flexibility and options the greatest of which is transforming a 120 volt outlet [level one charging] into a 240 volt level two charging. for example lets assume i have 2200 watts of solar and i plug into an 120 volt outlet at 15 amps [1800 watts]. i can combine those into a 4000 watt 240 volt output to charge the van without even draining the cabin battery. of course if i wanted i could drain the cabin battery and add another 2000 watts to the mix for a short time [2-5 hours depending on the size of the battery] for a total of 6000 watts of charging. for a reference point 6000 watts is a typical amount of power you will get from a public EV charging station and most EVs base charging systems cannot go above this. there options for faster charging but currently over 90% of EVs are charging at this rate.

other options include capitalizing on multiple public charging stations simultaneously. i could plug the van into one station and charge the cabin batter from another station. [note: please only do this if there are other EVs needing to charge]

UPDATE 27JUL22

ok i lied, digging into bluetti, it seems their system will easy allow both 120v and 240v simultaneous. get a paired set of either two AC300 or two EP500pro should work fine. they seem to have roughy the same specks other than the total size. the two EP500pros yield about 10kwh for about $10k and the two AC300 6kwh for $6k. the AC300 is expandable with additional battery packs, however, i don't know if that also works with split phase 240v setup, i assume would but they might fight over one cable port? however, there are two other aspects to keep in mind [not unique to bluetti], one the solar charging array will need to be split into two identical parts charging each unit separately. also to charge from shore two separate 120v power sources will be needed simultaneously and i need to dig deeper into that as well. if the AC300 works i think that would be my first pick as they can be expanded if 6kwh is not enough and more modular. the EP500pros would be two large heavy units, whereas, the dual AC300 6kwh setup would be 4 items of roughly the same size [so smaller and lighter], the 12kwh would be 6 items, the 18kwh 8 items and finally 24kwh with 10 items. so more modularity and expandability make it a better choice. furthermore, if push comes to shove, a 24kwh cabin battery would be roughly a 20% increase in range if the largest EV battery i can get is 120kwh, thus if the 24kwh cabin battery is a possibility then it would make a van with only 120kwh feasible [but 150-200 is preferred]. if ford did nothing but double the size of its battery then it would give, conservatively, a 300 mile range, 200-250 mile real world. starting early with a full charge, assuming sunny day and taking a couple of long breaks, it would be easy to go over 300 miles in day without any charging stations or setting up additional solar panels. setting up panels and/or stopping at charging stations will provide even longer daily distances and shorter breaks. furthermore, those breaks could also power the heating/cooling [and everything else] at full power.

 

water filtration and hot water

most likely going to get a tank-less water heater [electric of course]. i could get a 1 or 2 gallon electric tank but tankless will be more efficient, more on demand and smaller/lighter. there are 120v models that would basically work [.5 gallon/min which is doable but a pain] but since i have 240v i'll have more options. i've been using an electric tank-less unit in my house for years and i love it

considering using an infinite loop system for both sink an shower. the drains for sink and shower will have a screen filter then dump into a small tank [3-5 gallon]. the tank will then go through a carbon filter then UV filter by being drawn up with pump. the pump then pushed the water through a tankless water heater. this system would allow for continuous water use and since the water is pre-warmed after the first cycle it will require less power. any extra room taken up by the filtration is easily compensated by the small tank size. i might also put an UV light in the tank to continuously cycle on-off to keep the tank clean and add a little more filtration.

while plumping both a sink faucet and shower hose would be trivial i might just combine them

i could raise the floor by the bed and install a shower basin or i could leave the floor uniform and have a portable shower basin. while the portable unit would be more of a hassle [pick up, put down, store, connect to tank] it would make it easier to keep clean and i could use it for outside cleaning needs. plus it would keep the floor uniform. the basin could be plastic or metal, however the final unit should have metal sides for magnetic attachment of shower current to avoid spilling any water outside of the basin. it would also need a false floor [grate] to stand on to allow the water to pass through. all in all i think 4-5" high might work. 1-2" for the grate and 2-3" for curtain to attach to inside. for safety i should make the portable unit able to lock in place while using. furthermore, assuming it is clean enough the grate could be used for a dish drying rack? alternatively the grate could double as a small step to put down outside the door to help keep knock dirt and debris off shoes

i'm not sure if installing a fresh water system [eg tank, input port, lines, pump, faucet, etc...] will even be worth it. i'll only need fresh water for drinking, brushing teeth and cooking. i might need worry about washing hands but wipes and sanitizer are about as good and if my hands are really messy i can wash them with the infinite loop system first and follow it up with wipes or sanitizer. to be clear the infinite loop system should be producing clean safe to drink water so that should not be an issue but then the question some might ask then is why wouldn't i just use the infinite loop system for my drinking water? that would deplete the water reservoir so i would still need to go get water to replace it and i would need to be 100% sure about the system and keep a close eye on it. for cleaning and showering as long the plates are completely dried [maybe even wiped down] and i'm not drinking the shower water or letting it get into my eyes then 98%, 99% safe will be fine. if i made a super doper filtration system i could recycle my urine but that would be a much more elaborate system, there would be a yuck factor and i would still be at a net loss for water. all in all, for my drinking water needs, it might be easier to have something designed to take standard 3 or 5 gallon 'office' water jugs and some bottled water on hand just in case. getting those 3 or 5 gallon jugs are easy and so is refilling them. two or three 5 gallon jugs will last a long time.

worse case scenario would be running of drinking water and not being able to get more. if less than safe water is available i could pre-treat it first with chemicals then run it through the infinite loop system a couple times and/or boil it. if the water is really bad [ie muddy] i could use cloth to strain filter it first. if there is no water anywhere i still have 3-5 gallons in the infinite loop that can easily be made safe to drink.

 

other

• things i learned about on the forums and need to look into
  • 3m ceramic glass film, security and heat block
  • various security measures

• hot water

most likely going to get a tank-less water heater [electric of course]. i could get a 1 or 2 gallon electric tank but tankless will be more efficient, more on demand and smaller/lighter. there are 120v models that would basically work [.5 gallon/min which is doable but a pain] but since i have 240v i'll have more options. i've been using an electric tank-less unit in my house for years and i love it

• refrigerator

going to use a 120v chest freezer with modified thermostat. i've been using a chest freezer with modified thermostat for my keg-orator for decades and it uses about 1/3 the power a standard fridge would be of the same size. there RV designed fridges and some folk use 'off-grid' fridges, however, most [if not all] RV fridges are not efficient since they can be powered by multiple power types there was never much motivation to make them efficient in the first place. now many 'off-grid' fridges are efficient, but the biggest part of making a fridge efficient is its insulation. i'm fairly certain [but it has been a while since i researched it] that a mass produced chest freezer with modified thermostat clocks in at about the same level of efficiency as an 'off-grid' fridge, the only difference really is the mass produced chest freezer needs 120 volts and is a lot cheaper. my 5.1 cubic ft igloo has a rating of 172 kwh per year [as a freezer], when new it used 56 kwh per year while set to 35-40F and a decade later it uses 101 kwh while set at 33F. the most efficient cooler/freezer i've found thus far is the dometic cfx3-100 is 3.5 cubic ft and rated at 168 kwh per year. generally the bigger a frig/freezer the more efficient but even still the energy start 5.1 chest freezer is three times more efficient than the dometic 3.5. even looking at 3.5 cubic ft chest freezers they clock in at 152 khw [as a freezer] so likely four times more efficient than the dometic 3.5. i found similar results with other frig units [eg isotherm]

unfortunately, chest freezers are single zone that means i will not have a freezer. a couple of options placing a small thermoelectric unit inside of the fridge or separate freezer. the thermoelectric idea would be very inefficient. a separate unit would be expensive [cause, i'll get the most efficient kind which is pricey] and take up some room but it provide lots of options. if i have a 5.1 cubic ft frig and a 1 to 2 cubic ft cooler/freezer. then i could either have a medium and small frig or a medium frig and small freezer and even just a small frig/freezer if i don't have a lot of food, all though the 5.1 frig will use less than half of the energy of the smaller unit. i might drop down from a 5.1 to a 3.5-3.9 chest freezer if i can find one that will fit a 1/6 barrel keg. i extend the height of a 3.5 unit, however, that will decrease the efficiently of the unit. i don't think by much because if i'm running it as fridge instead of a freezer it will have plenty of cooling potential even with the increased space. but once i put a keg into a 3.5 unit i won't have a lot of room left. the keg and CO2 tank will take up about half the space leaving 1.5-2 cubic feet. i could put the CO2 tank on the outside but that would make running lines more complicated. i could also use something smaller than a 5 pound tank but that is a very standard size which is cheap and easy to fill/replace. plus the 5 pound CO2 tank is not that big.

another possibility could be a counter-top ice maker. half of my desire for an freezer is ice and the other half would be for keeping things frozen for a few days to a couple of weeks. i could get a small well insulated, not powered, cooler [i could even make my own], put some ice into it with some already frozen food and put the whole thing into the chest freezer. this should keep the cooler contents frozen for at least a few days and i could replace the ice. i don't think an ice maker is a good idea, they have counter top units that are small for about $100 and that might work but likely it will take a lot of energy to go that route? there are also 'undercounter' units that are just a little freezer with the same kind of ice maker you would see in a regular household frig, however, the starting point for these are around $500 but the cheap one seem sketchy and i will be at least $1000 but really $2000+, and i'm not sure how much energy they will use but it seems like a lot. for the same size i could get a 2.5 cubic ft chest freezer for $200-300. the avanti - cf24q0w [target carries these] is rated at 137 kwh per year [as a freezer]. the 2.5 unit would be about the same size [but tall instead of long] as a 70-80 liter cooler/freezer but maybe a little heavier but use 1/2 to 1/3 the the power and 1/3 to 1/4 the price.

TL;DR provided chest freezers won't break from road bumps, the best system for me seems to be a 3.5-5.1 cubic ft for a fridge and a 2.5 cubic ft for a freezer.

update, i'd like to avoid an adjustable height since it will be doubling as counter space, i don't want to lean over so i'm thinking about getting something between 5-9 cu ft now

keg issues aside, i could put in smaller than what i think i need frig and use a height extension. add 10" of height to a 3.5 and you have 5 cubic ft unit. the height extension would not take up much storage as it would just be a 20" by 20" by 10" box and 2" thick sides but no top or bottom. i could put it into the pan/cooking supply drawer and fill it up. or even make it collapsible. if do go with a keg system, which is very likely, then i might just make a 3.5 into a permanent 5 cubic ft unit. it would be taller but not an issue for my counter height. i was planning on raising the chest freezers by 8-12" anyways to make it easier to dig into. right now the Sylvania - SFRF434 at 152 kwh per year seems like the most efficient 3.5 cubic ft but i'm not sure where to get these but there might be new options in a few years

it might seem like a lot but both the 3.5 and 2.5 together is still only about 160 liters and i've seen lots of vans with 130-150 liters. plus if i'm low on food they become storage space.

• bed

[edit maybe split bed? also use lux-R for base foam it is lighter but has the same support as heavier foams and use 3lb memory foam on top, likely 3-4 memory with 4-5 regular foam]

since i'm likely going to be traveling solo i'd like to maximum the space in the van for one person, however, i would also like the option of making it two person friendly. for the most part the only difference between a 1 or 2 person configuration is the bed size. so i'm planning on making a split bed. i'll have the foundation [bed frame] for half of the bed be a permanent feature [namely the a raised platform in the back] and other other half be removable [i'm thinking that same plank would make a great desk area]. i've not yet narrowed down the bed's orientation. based on others videos and measurements it seems like there would be just enough room to place my head and feet from left to right side. most tallish folk are not able to put their beds like that, but that is mostly because of their decisions about the interior walls. most often folks will run a straight wall all the way down but because of the wall geometry that results in several inches between the outside and inside walls at maximum curvature. this yields a distance between the inside walls of 6 feet at the most. i think this is a common choice out of aesthetics and simplicity, however, by placing the bed height in such a way to maximum the distance it think it will be possible to sleep comfortably and still have 2 inches of insulation if the wall contour is followed, at least for where the head and foot of the bed is located. i might need to add a set of flares to the sides by the bed but i would like to avoid that because it will detract from stealth camping and might be less aerodynamic, however, depending on how i put the mini-split into the false wall it blend better?

the split bed setup i'm considering two 27-28" wide beds [27+27 = standard full size bed so sheets would be easy to get]. the second bed mattress could be placed as a back rest on the first mattress to make the rear of the van into a couch during the day and at night the other mattress could lean against the sliding door. i will make two different layouts in case there really is not enough room to have the bed go side to side in the van. 28" is not super wide so i think i put a bungee cord net on the side of the bed. just enough to remind you about the edge but not enough that it would make getting out of bed more difficult. plus that net would make it easy to toss a bunch of stuff on the bed and it will stay there while on the road. i might also make the area near the sliding door either extra strong or have some tie down points so that the removable plank that would be the second half of the bed could be setup for a separate bed in case i needed to shelter someone but did not want them too close, however, this would be low priority.

 

Ambitious.
Gonna have to wait a few years for a Ford eTransit that gets more than 150 miles, though. It's hard to imagine one that will go 300 miles being released in the next 10 years. Maybe there will be aftermarket battery packs or range extenders, though.

 

Ambitious.
Gonna have to wait a few years for a Ford eTransit that gets more than 150 miles, though. It's hard to imagine one that will go 300 miles being released in the next 10 years.

What makes you think that? The 300-mile range F150 electric is on sale now.

I suspect Ford will release longer-range Electric Transits as soon as they they're able to complete the backorder of the current variant. Which probably won't be this year, but hopefully less than 10!

 

****, all that AND stealth camping? Definitely ambitious. Sounds like one of those cool concept RVs at a car show. Can't wait to see some designs

 

I think of of the challenges of solar on an EV, is the tradeoff between stationary off-grid charging, and reduced range due to aero losses from the rack and PV array. Somebody moving daily might be better off with a very modest amount flexible panels, for house loads. But a large array of rigid panels might make more sense if you drive short distances and park for a few days.

 

i don't have hard numbers but rigid solar panels on the roof done well [eg snug to roof and a little 'ramp' fairings in front and back] will not have much relative aero drag increase. the frontal cross section area on a ford transit is about 56 square feet [and i'm not even sure that is for the tall option] so adding 2" high 72" wide panel cross section to that would increase the frontal area by less than 2% and closer to 1% for a tall transit. conversions with top mounted fans, heaters and AC units could have just as much drag

plus i'm considering adding a removable tail fairing [it would double as a side shade awning when parked] to help with aerodynamics

 

Enjoy that 150 mile range. A giant step backwards from current ICE tech, which actually works.

 

confused by your post, i expressly said that i'm not starting an EV van conversion until the range is much more than 150 miles? and of course getting 300-500 miles is extremely easy to do

 

As a dedicated camping vehicle, I can see where this would be viable, especially if the style of camping is to not be driving around constantly. If you get somewhere and STAY there for several days or weeks, PV could top off batteries as well as charge the house elec. system. But if you're touring, stopping someplace to camp and then going to look at something 50+ miles away and return to the camping spot every day, it's probably not well suited. Given currently available tech, I'd stick with the ICE drivetrain for a campervan. STILL crossing fingers for a PHEV Transit, though.

 

i'm not worried, i've been driving electric for almost two decades now and i've built several EVs and installed various solar arrays so i know what the limitations/hurdles are and how to avoid them. i plan to do both long term camping and touring. the long term camping as you pointed out will be easy and i won't need to be near campgrounds or anything, completely self-reliant. as for touring, assuming we get the 300-500 mile range travel will not be much of an issue, i don't really want to drive much further than that in a day any how. plus with my proposed system i could stop any where [don't need to hunt for a place to charge] for lunch, nap or what not and give myself a 'fast charge' from my cabin battery. basically i'll have a built in range extender

 

I still think a small diesel generator with an all electric drivetrain would be the best of both worlds. Unlimited range, very low emissions, with a decent sized battery could be all electric for everything but the longest trips.

 

if i was stuck with 150 mile range and i needed to do a lot of driving, that would be a good setup. but i'm 99% sure there will be much better range options in a few years [edit, looks like the previous post agrees with this assessment]. and like i said i really don't want to drive more than 400 or 500 miles in a day. even if i get a van with only 250 mile range, plugging into a charging station during lunch and taking a couple of breaks to use my on board charging option will still get me up to 400-500 miles in a day. so i'm not worried, this is not my first EV rodeo, i've been doing it for a long time now.

 

i want to thank everyone thus far and send more thanks in advance. you are more than welcome to share your experience or useful insight on the approaches i'm taking. there are several aspects regarding this potential conversion where there are much more knowledge people on these forums than i, however, to save everyone's time there are few areas where i am likely to be more knowledge and hence we don't need to worry about them. one such topic is the range limitations of EVs i built my first EV in 2005 and have been electric ever since. i know what the issues are and i'm worried, so the range of the EV van not a concern, no need to discuss it. worst case scenario is that in a few years they are not making an EV van with the range i need in which case i will not attempt the conversion. also lets keep discussions on topic; one off topic item is using fossil fuels. i'm not going to even consider the possibility of using fossil fuels in any regard so no need to bring them up in any way*

* i am aware that if i plug in to charge somewhere [eg a business, public charging station, etc..] the electricity from that outlet might not be coming from 100% renewable sources. i'll try to avoid that as much as possible but i doubt i will be completely successful.

 

The stealth part with all the solar panels seems very optimistic, but I am all for such a project as I've had this on my mind for a while and will do it one day as well.
I have currently a 400W panel on the roof of my minivan with a tilting mechanism. Whenever I put it up, every 5 minutes someone comes up to talk about it. Luckily for my needs at the moment I don't have to put it up too often and try to do it only in the wilderness now.
But if you want to have panels to assist your vehicle charging you will need a s*** load of panels. Something like this comes to mind (100% off the grid):

 

yep, i'm thinking of something kinda of similar, but not quite as big. they said they can get a full charge in 3 days, i'm planning on 6 days for full charge from solar alone. i'm also going to have the panels being supported by the vehicle [might require some poles]. i'd really like to program the car to move by itself to keep in line with the sun but that would void the warranty.

i'm planning on putting 6" pvc pipe on the sides to help conceal the solar panels, since these are very common on work vans, however, i'll put the pipe much closer to the roof, and might even use 4" for better aerodynamics. not perfect but should help. while solar panels on work vans are not very common now i think that is starting to change, i've seen a few in my area

 

i am aware that the electricity from that outlet might not be coming from 100% renewable sources...

Let's not forget, the environmental impact of any modern car is absolutely horrific. The mining, the steel smelting, the toxic chemicals. And the asphalt paving, an ecological obscenity. If you're gonna renounce fossil fuels, you have to boycott asphalt roads.

Since the primary goal of your exercise is to score virtue points from your fellow eco-doomers, why not go all the way? Renounce the car.

Revert to the constenoga wagon. That would be so brave and progressive!

 

@rustythorn I'm excited to follow your progress with this over the years. This is a future goal of ours as well.

 

i'm starting this thread to help myself plan for a future conversion of a cargo van to a RV [van life] i don't have a van yet so some aspects here will be hypothetical. there is no guarantee that a EV transit will be the chosen vehicle but ford is currently the leader in EV vans so...

some minimum goals:

• EV, the van will have an electric only drive train
  • minimum 200 mile real world range, preferably 300-500 mile range
• lots of PV panels for both comfort and charging the van [1k-3k watts]
• high level water reclamation/filtration system
  • minimally reuse shower water for more showers
    • hopefully also reuse shower/sink water for more shower/sink use
• mini-split heat/AC
• separate battery system 3-10 kWh size pack
  • both 120v and 240v outputs
    • 240v minimum output of 4000 watts, 6000+ watts preferred
• stealth camping

some lofty goals:

• pulling water from the air system
• 100% water reclamation/filtration with tiered outputs [drinking, dishes, shower]
• self driving option
• onboard AI system to record/respond to people outside van when owner is not available

undecided goals:

• signage on the side of van to pretend like its a commercial work van [stealth camping]
  • large e-paper panels to change what is displayed on side of van
  • permanent option "<last name>'s electric van"

timeline:

looking to buy/start conversion in 4-8 years. there are a number of variables that go into this projection the two biggest ones are "retirement" and van availability [currently there are no EV van options with sufficient range]. other factors that could come into play would be if start a relationship between now and then.

Hey Rusty,

Nice wish list. I bet you'll have a killer rig someday. Just be ready to spend and spend and spend...

I can speak to a few things on your list, although mostly as they relate to my specific needs, not necessarily yours.

1) I wanted/needed splitphase 120/240V to power the most efficient retail air conditioner on the planet: Carrier's 42 SEER 240V minisplit unit with aluminum golden hydrophilic pre-coated fins. But the minisplit install wasn't straightforward since I had to invent a new way to mount it, and I wanted to retain full functionality of the rear doors, which sounds easy but it's not. Lots of misleading lietube videos out there that make it look simple, but they're having problems and hiding them, or in one case the guy just outright lied until I pressed him on some details. Take those vids with a grain of salt. I'm still troubleshooting a small issue (resonant tone on the evap unit) that fortunately doesn't impact performance at all, but still, it's been a challenge. The good news is the a/c is extremely efficient and has held up for 10 months through intense heat and lots of 4x4 roads. Some more data about that in the build thread linked in my signature.

2) I also wanted to be able to use 120V shore power to run the 240V minisplit. The only inverter/charger that could do that (built in autotransformer) was the Conext SW 4048. So far it's working like a champ, very quiet, but then I rarely pull more than 1300W (microwave and a/c running), and the most I've ever briefly drawn was 2500W. Most of the time it's between 150-550W, so the fan never even turns on. But it can do 3.3kW continuous, or 3.8kW for 30 minutes which is getting pretty close to your 4kW target.

3) I was able to get 1,110W of quality solar (REC Alphas) on the roof. I can charge via solar and the inverter/charger (when on shore power) and even a possible forthcoming 5kW alternator (already paid for and partly installed just not sure I want/need it anymore with so much solar), so your idea of using multiple power sources to collectively fast charge at 240V is feasible. But when totally off-grid, solar will only output 5-7kWh per day, and that's just not going to be enough to make a big dent on an EV battery unless you stay put for a few weeks. It'll also be a fraction of that if the a/c is running 24/7.

4) I probably could have made the newest generation alpha pure panels fit, and pushed it up to 1290W, but they're much larger and are start getting into territory where a tree branch is more likely to snag, not to mention aerodynamics. They also pushed the VoC higher so its vaguely possible you'd need more than a 150V MPPT, and I wasn't interested in that. 133Vdc is already dangerous enough. But in 4-8 years, I could see 1500W's being possible if solar tech continues to advance, or you could go crazy and do a big fold-out mechanical array like some folks have done, but it'll sit higher and weigh more, so drag and m/kWh will suffer. Even so, I wouldn't expect more than 8kWh per day, maybe 10 tops during peak production months, and again, that's with no a/c or other loads running. With those loads, you'd maybe have 2-3kWh extra. However, during the winter if you use a webasto (would need a small fuel tank) instead of the minisplit heat pump, you could probably generate 5kWh/day per extra (with all DC loads running), maybe more. Heat pumps, even the most efficient ones like the Carrier unit I have still pull tons of power compared to a webasto. Think 1-2kW versus 30W for the webasto.

5) My minisplit is 9k btu and feels about right for the van. With extremely good insulation or with a box van (non metal) you could probably make a 6k btu unit work, especially if you avoid the hot desert southwest in the summer. But bear in mind the front windows and windshield let most of the heat in (assuming roof is almost totally shaded by a massive solar array). You'll either have to go through a lot of effort constantly installing thick expensive window covers (plus stowing them between drives), or settle for easier covers and a larger 9k btu unit. I'm doing the latter because when parked in the sun I'm net positive solar even at 100F ambient. I often intentionally have to keep the main battery bank at a lower SOC to help prolong its life, so for my situation, the less hassle dealing with window covers the better. If you only frequent places that top out at 90F, that would be a huge help, and maybe 6k btu could work for that.

6) A 10kWh battery bank is too small. I recommend 20 minimum. Solar output is highly dependent upon both cloud cover and your ability to park in the sun. Lots of great campsites don't permit that, and clouds are just part of life. When it's sufficiently cloudy, instead of being net positive 10% SOC per day with my 20.5kWh bank, I'm net negative 10%, and if it's heavy thick clouds and rain for days (happened outside of New Orleans) it can start dropping 20% per day. Since I only charge to 95% and discharge to 15% (kills the battery life if you push beyond that), 80% capacity at 20% per day draw = 4 days. Most of the time it's not 20% loss per day in that situation, and it's more like 5-6 days until empty, and this whole situation is infrequent, but still, if you want 24/7 a/c, even extremely efficient units will draw a fair bit of power, ballpark 4kWh per day in 100F ambient if you run it 24/7 and keep it nice and cool in there. Add another 1.25kWh for fridge/freezer and other misc loads (microwave twice a day, PD chargers, lights, etc) and you really don't have that much spare summer capacity. A 10kWh battery bank would be way too tight for my setup. I wish I had 30kWh. Then I could forgo the 48V 5kW alternator entirely. With 20.5 I'm just close enough that I may end up doing the alternator for those somewhat rare but recurring cloud/shade situations.

And a final personal comment. I dreamed big with the tech on my rig. And I got it. But it came at a price. It took four times as long just to get that tech installed versus what I had originally estimated for the entire build. Right now my walls and roof are just insulation, and I still haven't built the storage shelves (next) because I'm so burned out that it's hard to stay motived. Two years of toiling away in a van saps a lot of fun out of things, and reminds me that dreaming big is easy, implementing those dreams is hard. Just something to think about. It was fun for about one year, but by 1.5 years I was ragged, and after two years I was toast.

Your build is a huge project. Expect years of non-stop labor. Everyone I know on the forum with similar big plans hints in their build threads that they're bogged down and exhausted, just like I was for the last two years. Labor of love? Labor of hate? Who knows. Labor is the certain part.

Cheers.

 

thanks for the post, great info and i've already read parts of your posts and learned a lot. yep like you i'm looking for 1000-1200 watts on the roof and it will be tillable so i can get good aerodynamics while driving and good cooling plus sun alignment while parked, however, i also plan to have another 1000+ watts of panels stowed in the van for setup during long term camping. even with that i know i'm not guaranteed all the solar power i need so i will just need to not be too reckless, like driving out into the middle of nowhere using all of my van's battery with limited food and water with lots of cloudy days in the forecast. so when i'm away from civilization i'll use good planning and 2-3k of sun-aligned solar to live off and recharge the van. while in civilization i'll only have 1k of non-aligned solar but plenty of places to plug in so the van will have full power and i can draw power from that. the current ford transit has 68kwh pack which is not enough, at a minimum i'd want 100kwh like tesla's but i'm expecting 120-150kwh. this why i'm only looking at 5-10k cabin battery any extra power made with my solar panels beyond what my small cabin battery can handle can be transferred into the van's battery and i can then draw that power back out later if needed. the 5-10k cabin batteries main job is to capture solar power when the van can't [eg driving or at a charging station] so my real cabin battery is the van's battery and the 5-10k battery is just middle management

i think 6k BTU will be enough if i build a separator between the front area and the rest of the van. i'm also considering having one or two curtains to partition the van. obviously a curtain is not the same as 2 inches of insulation but two curtains with with a small air gag between sectioning off the sleeping area should allow a small cooling unit to preform even in the worst heat. while it would become very tiresome to constantly draw the curtains and a little claustrophobic to be confined to an even smaller space i don't foresee it being a necessity very often and even on the worst days it might only be necessary for a short time [eg the afternoon]

i am very aware of the motivation aspect, i've built two EV motorcycles and two EV cars and they took a while to make so i know about burnout plus as i'm getting on in years my motivation and energy levels are a lot lower, so it is a concern and i appreciate you bringing it up

 

Sounds like a fun project.

Where I am challenged to make an EV conversion van work is how to make it comfortable and pull along the needed capabilities.

If the EV vans had at least 2-3 K lbs of tow capacity, then this would expand the ability to add solar panels and battery capacity. Perhaps even to bring along a generator for occasional use. AFAIK, there is zero tow capacity in the existing EV vans, so that is a real challenge.

If you are open to routinely charging the EV battery pack and the house battery pack at an EV charge station, then it might be feasible.

I don't know, but assume that you can charge the van EV pack from 120 vac? If so, then it isn't a big deal to purchase a good quality12 -13K BTU roof top air conditioner that is fairly efficient that also uses 120 vac.

There are some 48 volt DC split air conditioners but the form factor isn't completely easy to integrate - not impossible but not as convenient as they could be.

Do you have an initial plan for the house battery pack voltage?

 

yes you can charge the van from 120v and i plan to do so for long term camping but for a good sized battery pack [eg 350+ miles = 150 kwh] it would take several days to charge from 120v which is fine since i don't want to use all of the solar power just for charging.

originally when i was going to make my own cabin battery i was planning on 48v but using a premade power station its battery voltage is irrelevant, i'll feed it anywhere from 12v to 150v DC and it will give me 120v and 240v AC

 

I think charge rate of 120vac would amount to 2-3 miles per hour in a Transit loaded down with equipment. A vehicle that is smaller and more efficient would get up to 7 miles per hour. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, and/or talk about how charging with DC provided by the solar array, or stepping to 240vac from 120vac with the same array would speed up charging. I'm under the impression that the array can only produce X-amount of kwh, and changing voltage would not effect that.

 

My understanding is that in order to charge the EV van's traction battery from solar, it would first need to solar charge up the "house" battery, and then this would be inverted to charge the van's traction battery. Since these "rates" are probably not identical, it might end up looking like a batch process.

Rusty is pretty knowledgeable about this area though as he had built some EVs on his own so knows better than I do.

If he needs 240 vac split phase or 208 / 3 phase for charging, it might make sense to buy inverters that are designed to be combined this way, such as some of the higher end victron units can be setup this way.

Another option would be to feed 120 vac single phase into an autotransformer to create the 240 vac split phase.

It is always possible that a vehicle could be offered which would allow direct connection of a solar array that could plug directly into it. Technically this is entirely possible, but the electrical and fire code compliance would be complex to implement, especially since the fire code and CA codes related to solar installations are such a moving target.

 

Conversion losses through the chain sound like a nightmare to me.

 

there will be some loss but the only way to mitigate that would be build a custom MPPT solar charge controller, hack into the van's battery management system, void the warranty and possibly break some laws so that the van's batteries could charged directly from solar and even if i did, that would only cover solar charging [1000-3000 watts], reaching 6000+ watts of charging from three different power sources directly to the van's batteries would be the real nightmare. thankfully i don't need to, as there are off-the-shelf affordable options with the downside of losing 5-10% more than a direct option

 

I gave this some thought as well. My idea was to get an E-transit cutaway and then add a huge LFP battery pack to extend the range to ~500mi. That's roughly the amount of driving I'm willing to do in one day on our cross country dashes.

This isn't the use case that you're describing obviously, but for me it was a no-go due to cost and charging times.

WARNING: shaky back of envelope math follows:

I think the E-transit gets about 108mi of range (high roof) out of its 68kwh (EDITED TO ADD CORRECT VALUES PER FORD) so to get another 400mi I would then need an additional 252kwh of battery. Assuming you buy 280Ah 3.2v EVE prismatic cells at $150 each, they're 280*3.2v = .896kwh per cell so 252/.896 = 281 cells needed = $42,150 for the add on battery. And then there's the charging. I think the E-transit uses 400v architecture and can charge at 150kwh max at a fast charger or 50ax220v =11kwh at a 50A campground site. So to get to 400v architecture I'd need either two packs of batteries probably that are 400v each, 400/3.2 = 125 cells each, 250 cells total so that would be a 224kWh battery (+68kwh stock batt) with a range of about 464 mi. Cost for this battery would be 250x$150 = $37,500 Plus the cost of BMS and charging equipment which is an unknown but probably another $5k. If I kept it more of a low roof profile and squeezed more like 120 mi/68kwh out of it I would have a range of 541 mi. I think the E-transit cutaway I priced was about $57k so this custom long range E-transit would end up being about $100k out the door and then you'd have the cost of the buildout.

USA STOCK FAST UPS DELIVERY LF280K 280Ah 3.2V LiFePO4 Prismatic Battery Cell Laser Welded Terminal Stud (docanpower.com)

Given that there are folks that buy sprinter revels for $180k or whatever there definitely seems like a market for this eye popping price but it's a little too rich for my blood.

I keep hoping the Workhorse/Lordstown motors comes out of bankruptcy and their hub motors become a thing. We could buy a RWD transit, put two of their hub motors on the front end, and then have a ~80kwh pack to make a more reasonable PHEV transit.

 

I gave this some thought as well. My idea was to get an E-transit cutaway and then add a huge LFP battery pack to extend the range to ~500mi. That's roughly the amount of driving I'm willing to do in one day on our cross country dashes.

This isn't the use case that you're describing obviously, but for me it was a no-go due to cost and charging times.

WARNING: shaky back of envelope math follows:

I think the E-transit gets about 100mi of range (high roof) out of its 78kwh (I'm going off of memory here) so to get another 400mi I would then need 4x78 = 312kwh of battery. Assuming you buy 280Ah 3.2v EVE prismatic cells at $150 each, they're 280*3.2v = .896kwh per cell so 312/.896 = 348 cells needed = $52,200 for the add on battery. And then there's the charging. I think the E-transit uses 400v architecture and can charge at 150kwh max at a fast charger or 50ax220v =11kwh at a 50A campground site. So to get to 400v architecture I'd need either two packs of batteries probably that are 400v each, 400/3.2 = 125 cells each, 250 cells total so that would be a 224kWh battery (+78kwh stock batt) with a range of about 380 mi. Cost for this battery would be 250x$150 = $37,500 Plus the cost of BMS and charging equipment which is an unknown but probably another $5k. If I kept it more of a low roof profile and squeezed more like 120 mi/78kwh out of it I would have a range of 464 mi. I think the E-transit cutaway I priced was about $57k so this custom long range E-transit would end up being about $100k out the door and then you'd have the cost of the buildout.

USA STOCK FAST UPS DELIVERY LF280K 280Ah 3.2V LiFePO4 Prismatic Battery Cell Laser Welded Terminal Stud (docanpower.com)

Given that there are folks that buy sprinter revels for $180k or whatever there definitely seems like a market for this eye popping price but it's a little too rich for my blood.

I keep hoping the Workhorse/Lordstown motors comes out of bankruptcy and their hub motors become a thing. We could buy a RWD transit, put two of their hub motors on the front end, and then have a ~80kwh pack to make a more reasonable PHEV transit.

yes a DIY approach to more batteries is financially devastating, however, because our society has developed this weird pricing/market/capitalism system, we never pay the actual price of things, not to mention economy of scale, trade deals, etc... for example, i stopped making my own EVs because i could by one cheaper than the price the batteries alone. so if ford doubled the battery size then we could, conservatively, get 300 miles. which for me is plenty and because of skewed economics i think ford would only raise price by $5-10k, $15k at most. furthermore, if i can get a used EV van then the prices are even more variable and in the favor of folks who know what is what. for example i could easy see two identical used EV vans going for the same price even though one has twice the batteries of the other. things are getting better but most people are clueless about EVs, especially dealerships. when i made my first EV motorcycle in 2005, NM had me register it as a zero-cylinder gas bike. when i got my first used leaf from carmax, the "quality check" exit forms listed the car has just gotten a fresh oil change. i give carmax a hard time but i know the manger and normally i think all dealerships new and used are all that is wrong with this world, but carmax is doing things right; at least relativity speaking

 

Some solid discussion of the difficulties of DC-DC charging off solar into the high voltage EV battery (2018). General summary is it’s not really feasible without a buffer (grid or your house battery bank). But some links/directions to pursue:

Direct DC Charging with Solar Panel

I bought a 2014 Leaf yesterday. At Cal Poly, my research students and I are developing ways to directly use DC electricity from solar panels. I’m interested to innovate a way to charge the Leaf directly from solar panels - both from my (not grid tied) home system as well as with onboard PV that...

www.mynissanleaf.com

 

There’s also the slightly longer-range Lightning Transit. They might even consider building an even longer range variant if requested.

Lightning ZEV3 Transit Zero Emission Passenger Van | Lightning eMotors

The Lightning ZEV3 Transit passenger van’s state-of-the-art electric drivetrain delivers the best efficiency of any Class 3 electric vehicle. Contact us today!

lightningemotors.com

 

started a tangential thread about fords-intelligent-backup-power i'm not sure i will go that route but it is a possibility

 

i did some comparisons of frig/freezers. comparing a 5.1 cubic foot chest freezer [running as a frig] to isotherm's 5.7 cubic foot frig only model, the chest freezer uses 2.5 times less energy, however, if i have a 3.5 ft^3 chest as a frig and a 2.5 chest ft^3 as a freezer and compare it to isotherm's 5.8 ft^3 frig/freezer combo it is only 20% more efficient. both options are about the same weight but the two chest freezers take up a little more room [but can be separated]. the two chest options will be about $1000-$2000 cheaper and can be fixed/replaced just about anywhere [eg bestbuy, lowes, home depot, target, amazon, etc...]. the two chest option also have double the freezer space and if needed can both be run as frigs or freezers. the only issue i'm worried about is durability. i might need to provide some support for the compressor unit to protect from road bumps. the cooler/freezers are even less efficient. note, the kwh column is kwh per year

brand	model	kwh	size liter	size ft^3	top/front	freeze/fridge	compressor	single/dual
dometic	cfx3 35	106	32	1.2	top	fridge	DanFoss	single
dometic	cfx3 45	110	45	1.5	top	fridge	DanFoss	single
dometic	cfx3 55IM	132	46	1.8	top	fridge	DanFoss	single
dometic	cfx3 100	168	99	3.5	top	fridge	DanFoss	single
Newair	NPR080GA00	214	75	2.6	top	fridge	LG	single
Costway	EP24413/24413-CYPE	205	50	1.7	top	fridge	?	single
Whynter	BEF-286SB	182	81	2.86	front	fridge	?	single
ICECO	JP50 pro	148	50	1.8	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	dual
ICECO	JP40 pro	118	40	1.4	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	JP42W	190	42	1.5	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	VL60proS	200	60	2.1	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	VL45proS	186	45	1.6	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	VL74GSN	152	74	2.6	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	VL45GSN	127	45	1.6	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	single
ICECO	VL90proD	240	90	3.2	top	fridge	Secop(Danfoss)	dual
isotherm	CR130 drink	146	130	4.6	front	fridge	BD 35F	single
isotherm	CR130+freeze	153	130	4.6	front	fridge	BD 35F	dual
isotherm	CR160 drink	187	160	5.7	front	fridge	BD 50F	single
isotherm	CR165+freezer	219	165	5.8	front	fridge	BD 50F	dual
isotherm	CR320 drink	380	320	11.3	front	fridge	2*BD 50F	single
isotherm	CR320+freezer	419	320	11.3	front	fridge	BD50F+BD80F	dual
isotherm	CR90F	228	90	3.2	front	freezer	BD 35F	single
energy star	20 degrees F	172	144	5.1	top	freezer	?	single
energy star	33 deg F	101	144	5.1	top	fridge	?	single
energy star	40 deg F	56	144	5.1	top	fridge	?	single
energy star	20 degrees F	152	99	3.5	top	freezer	?	single
energy star	20 degrees F	137	71	2.5	top	freezer	?	single

 

That's a lot of fridge space!
I'd figure out what amount of space you need for 1 week's worth of goods, and go from there. Let the stores use THEIR energy to keep stuff cold long term, and venture into town once a week for provisions.

It's more work, but one option I've seen is to just have a freezer and re-freeze ice packs and put them in a cooler that works as the refrigerator, rotating the ice packs/bottled water as they thaw.
Someone else mentioned that they use a countertop ice maker to keep their cooler stocked with ice (no freezer option for this setup unless stand-alone). The icemaker thing would require carrying or access to water.

Thanks for doing all these calculations down to cold, hard numbers.

 

That's a lot of fridge space!
I'd figure out what amount of space you need for 1 week's worth of goods, and go from there. Let the stores use THEIR energy to keep stuff cold long term, and venture into town once a week for provisions.

It's more work, but one option I've seen is to just have a freezer and re-freeze ice packs and put them in a cooler that works as the refrigerator, rotating the ice packs/bottled water as they thaw.
Someone else mentioned that they use a countertop ice maker to keep their cooler stocked with ice (no freezer option for this setup unless stand-alone). The icemaker thing would require carrying or access to water.

Thanks for doing all these calculations down to cold, hard numbers.

thanks, i don't think it is a lot of frig space, the isotherm 130 seems to be a popular choice and that is 4.6 ft^3 or about the size of dorm fridge. i'm looking at 5.9 ft^3 total with 3.5 ft^3 frig and 2.4 ft^3 freezer [so about the same as an isotherm 165] but if i have too much frig space, i can turn off one of the chest freezers and use it as storage. so i will have plenty of food storage potential but the space will not go to waste if i don't have a lot of food at any given time. i'm also planning on having a keg system so my frig storage will drop to 2 ft^3 unless i modify it to get another cubic foot out of it or use a 5 cubic foot chest freezer. i looked at counter-top and under-counter ice makers but that would be a hassle and they are the least energy efficient route, however, if you only need ice occasionally then it might use less energy than a frig/freezer combo unit since you can not turn off the freezer, but since my freezer is separate i can turn it off.

this system will be the cheapest by far, $300-500 vs $1000-2000, the most efficient and the most versatile. the down side is a possible ruggedness issue which could be overcome but they are easily and cheaply fixed or replaced. while slightly more space required, the net space is not anymore than a smaller frig setup. if i need the food storage then it is not wasted space and if i have less food i can use the space for something else.