[cobratom]

Well, like a complete idiot, I forgot to drain my water system when we got home last week. So the freeze test of my system is under way. It was well below zero degF here for a week solid. Fresh water tank is bulged, filter casing exploded, but my pex lines appear fine. Heat is on and drain line installed. I will report back later tonight with either "wow this system is tough", or "I am a huge failure of a human."

If your filter is the upright unit next to the accumulator your positioning of it may have saved the heater. It would have froze much faster and the accumulator was maintaining pressure so it most likely pushed out enough water to empty at least a portion of the Combi tank.

 

[Kabouter]

I remember seeing a freeze report when these were tested. The Stainless tank is VERY tough. Usually the small pex lines and hot cold/fittings break off along with any plastics outside of the system that get brittle when cold.
I hope you got lucky, but if you did not we will get you fixed up. I have a new tank here sitting on my shelf with your name on it if you need it.
Tom

That is so awesome! I thought I would have to replace the whole unit if I messed it up! Knowing the support and parts are there is very reassuring. Thank you!!!

I am just waiting another couple minutes for hte sun to get up and then I will go check on everything. It has been at 70 degF in there for a full day, so that ice should be melted or mostly melted by now.

 

[Kabouter]

Well, there is still a huge ice chunk in the fresh water tank. There was probably about 20 gallons in it during the freeze. No massive leakage in the van at all, so I take that as a positive. But I am not really sure yet how to test the system. I do not have a replacement filter (it should be here Sunday), so I am at a bit of a loss for how to get it connected up to test it all.

 

[cobratom]

Most likely best to wait. You can bypass the filter... but once you have the filter let the pump pressurize the system, release all air in the taps and then re-pressurize. After that see if the pump cycles if its cycling you most likely have a leak somewhere.

 

[kenryan]

That sounds about right. It is definitely good motivation to get the doors done at least!

You could probably have conserved a substantial amount of propane by lowering the thermostat to 40 when not in the van. With the Truma's output I would think that it would only take a few minutes to raise the temperature to a comfortable level.

Do you have anything blocking off the front of the van, like a blanket hanging down? This alone would have a pretty dramatic effect on your consumption.

 

[kenryan]

Well, like a complete idiot, I forgot to drain my water system when we got home last week. So the freeze test of my system is under way. It was well below zero degF here for a week solid. Fresh water tank is bulged, filter casing exploded, but my pex lines appear fine. Heat is on and drain line installed. I will report back later tonight with either "wow this system is tough", or "I am a huge failure of a human."

To me, freeze danger is a major drawback of the Truma. I hope your system repair is not too costly.

 

[impatient]

Sorry you’re going thru this. Us Texans are gaining a new appreciation of the dangers of frozen pipes.

I believe Truma (at least in Germany) offers an automatic drain valve. I think. I assume it senses when temps get near freezing and opens to allow unmanned draining. That might be a useful addition to your install...after you get it unfrozen...if you can source it.

Edit:
No idea if it works with the Combi, it might be more for their more traditional “tank-based” water heater. Perhaps Cobratom knows what I am talking about.


2015 Tall, Medium Length, Cargo, 3.5EB, pretty generic-looking, DIY camper

 

[Scotty49]

In my Truma unit, the pressure relief / drain valve is manual. It is recommended that the hot water tank in the Truma be drained anytime the unit will sit unused for a prolonged period. Also, per the manual, “After draining the water, the Combi furnace is protected against freezing conditions.”
Unfortunately, this is also in the manual, “Damage to the Combi furnace caused by freezing!
• The Combi furnace does not have a frost-pro- tection function. The water container must be drained if the recreational vehicle (RV) will not be used whenever there is a risk of frost.
No warranty claims for frost damage are accepted.”

 

[impatient]

I THINK this is the automatic one:

Truma Trumatic Drain Valve/Frostcontrol - Set 2,8 BAR For 10mm Hose. You should get a hit on eBay with this search.

And the manual one:

TRUMA MOTORHOME & CARAVAN ULTRASTORE SAFETY WATER HEATER DRAIN VALVE 70141-02. Again, the eBay item title.




2015 Tall, Medium Length, Cargo, 3.5EB, pretty generic-looking, DIY camper

 

[cobratom]

Sorry you’re going thru this. Us Texans are gaining a new appreciation of the dangers of frozen pipes.

I believe Truma (at least in Germany) offers an automatic drain valve. I think. I assume it senses when temps get near freezing and opens to allow unmanned draining. That might be a useful addition to your install...after you get it unfrozen...if you can source it.

Edit:
No idea if it works with the Combi, it might be more for their more traditional “tank-based” water heater. Perhaps Cobratom knows what I am talking about.


2015 Tall, Medium Length, Cargo, 3.5EB, pretty generic-looking, DIY camper

Yes. these absolutely work with the Combi. There are two types, one which is electric (Does not work with combi) and then the standard Frost Valve which does.
It has a piece of metal in it that changes shape based on temperature, when the temperature dips below freezing it shrinks and opens the valve letting the water out.

 

[cobratom]

To me, freeze danger is a major drawback of the Truma. I hope your system repair is not too costly.

This holds true to any water heater, or water system.....
The Combi does not have to be used as a water heater, in the winter you may use it as an air heater only.

 

[coguzzi]

This holds true to any water heater, or water system.....
The Combi does not have to be used as a water heater, in the winter you may use it as an air heater only.

me, im totally baffled why people think/try to have a water system in a van in winter (unless you are really in a climate that dont freeze). wanting all the amenities of home in a "4 season van". i mean, homes have freeze issues as it is and pipes come into the house buried below the freeze line into a foundation that hopefully protects it. Vans are totally exposed to the elements on all sides. its easy enough to carry water in jugs for the few times in the winter. it gets kind of tiring reading frozen water system complaints--to me its common sence

i used to fix lots of water heater tanks when i sold/serviced four wheel campers. sometimes people just simply forgot to empty them, more often it was people tempting fate

 

[cobratom]

me, im totally baffled why people think/try to have a water system in a van in winter (unless you are really in a climate that dont freeze). wanting all the amenities of home in a "4 season van". i mean, homes have freeze issues as it is and pipes come into the house buried below the freeze line into a foundation that hopefully protects it. Vans are totally exposed to the elements on all sides. its easy enough to carry water in jugs for the few times in the winter. it gets kind of tiring reading frozen water system complaints--to me its common sence

i used to fix lots of water heater tanks when i sold/serviced four wheel campers. sometimes people just simply forgot to empty them, more often it was people tempting fate

I suppose it depends on the circumstances. Last winter we spent New Years up north at Algonquin National Park in Ontario, Canada. -3F during the night.
Our Holding tanks have heated pads on them to prevent freezing, and the fresh water tank is inside the Sprinter.
Our Toilet unfortunately requires fresh water for flushing, chose to run 10Gallons of fresh water for cooking, washing hands and toilet use. No issues. Opened the drain valve on the drive home to let the camper temp water to drain out on the drive, filled the system with antifreeze when home and shut the furnace down.

Really depends on what your needs are, what your climate is like and how you camp.
Those of us used to freezing temps and winterization of equipment know what to expect come November.
Unfortunately the weather is changing, so it is something that needs to be taken into account.

 

[kenryan]

me, im totally baffled why people think/try to have a water system in a van in winter (unless you are really in a climate that dont freeze). wanting all the amenities of home in a "4 season van". i mean, homes have freeze issues as it is and pipes come into the house buried below the freeze line into a foundation that hopefully protects it. Vans are totally exposed to the elements on all sides. its easy enough to carry water in jugs for the few times in the winter. it gets kind of tiring reading frozen water system complaints--to me its common sence

i used to fix lots of water heater tanks when i sold/serviced four wheel campers. sometimes people just simply forgot to empty them, more often it was people tempting fate

I tend to agree with your thinking. If you have a water system and you use the van in winter conditions, it's not a matter of "if" you will have a freeze up, but rather "when" you will have a freeze up. At the very least, the water system should be easy to repair.

 

[coguzzi]

I tend to agree with your thinking. If you have a water system and you use the van in winter conditions, it's not a matter of "if" you will have a freeze up, but rather "when" you will have a freeze up. At the very least, the water system should be easy to repair.

Im a Quebec transplant from Colorado, but originally from WI/MN. so basically i grew up in the cold-hated it-moved to CO. met a quebec girl who was working in the US, 15 years later she gets a job offer in Quebec and wants to move back. im second guessing myself everyday--ha

Of course coming from CO, they say if you dont like the weather, wait 15 minutes. i used my furnace pretty much everytime i was out at elevation. warm in day cold at night. ive been in Death Valley--hotter than blazes in day but below freezing at night. nothing you can do about those situations and mostly you will be ok for these types of days

BUT, when you know for a fact its going to be below freezing for next couple months (my reality unfortunately).....tempting fate. and running the furnace 100% of the time for the entire winter--thats just silly to me. should you have an issue--batteries or furnace (espars have issues all the time)--your done

PS, my truma is getting installed pretty much as we speak (wiring/control side today)

 

[Kabouter]

Sorry for being tardy in reporting back about my stupidity and freezing of the system. I think I was quite lucky. I cracked the pump head, the prefilter housing, and the fine fileter element. That was it. SO, in all not too bad. Back up and running and I plan to design a winterizing system that is fast and easy to use so I can winterize the whole thing between weekend uses.

I know some people have talked about how it is dumb to use water in winter, but I strongly disagree. Having running hot water is a huge luxury that really improves the whole experience. I think it is worth designing a system that works and is easy to winterize between uses. My overall plan is going to include an easier drain system, and an onboard, built-in RV antifreeze reservoir. My desire is to turn two or three valves, run the pump for a minute, and have it be done. We will see how it goes.

 

[cobratom]

Sorry for being tardy in reporting back about my stupidity and freezing of the system. I think I was quite lucky. I cracked the pump head, the prefilter housing, and the fine fileter element. That was it. SO, in all not too bad. Back up and running and I plan to design a winterizing system that is fast and easy to use so I can winterize the whole thing between weekend uses.

I know some people have talked about how it is dumb to use water in winter, but I strongly disagree. Having running hot water is a huge luxury that really improves the whole experience. I think it is worth designing a system that works and is easy to winterize between uses. My overall plan is going to include an easier drain system, and an onboard, built-in RV antifreeze reservoir. My desire is to turn two or three valves, run the pump for a minute, and have it be done. We will see how it goes.

Happy to hear it.
Antifreeze is really not necessary.
There are two options. Low laying drain (which you already have with the Truma Safety valve) and all other pumping and valving above it. Often easier if you have a air valve (open it up to allow the top of the system to open to the air so it prevents air lock.)

Second option is compressed air. 70psi of compressed air through the system completely clears it. You can use a airpig for this, or a onboard compressor.

 

[Kabouter]

It seems to me that anti-freeze would be easier than blowing out with air. Maybe not, but it seems like it would be no more work that just gravity draining, but would give me a much better result. This is what I have in mind:

End of a weekend, this is the winterizing process:

1. open the low-point drain
2. close the filter valve (built into the Everpure filter head)
3. remove Everpure filter
4. Open Filter Bypass Valve
5. Close Truma Cold Isolation Valve
6. Close Truma Hot Isolation Valve
7. Open Truma Bypass Valve
8. Open Antifreeze Valve
9. Run pump
10. Profit

I think that is about as easy as it can be. A single gallon of antifreeze should last me a full winter (maybe 8 trips).

 

[cobratom]

It seems to me that anti-freeze would be easier than blowing out with air. Maybe not, but it seems like it would be no more work that just gravity draining, but would give me a much better result. This is what I have in mind:
View attachment 149333

End of a weekend, this is the winterizing process:

1. open the low-point drain
2. close the filter valve (built into the Everpure filter head)
3. remove Everpure filter
4. Open Filter Bypass Valve
5. Close Truma Cold Isolation Valve
6. Close Truma Hot Isolation Valve
7. Open Truma Bypass Valve
8. Open Antifreeze Valve
9. Run pump
10. Profit

I think that is about as easy as it can be. A single gallon of antifreeze should last me a full winter (maybe 8 trips).

This would work just fine, no worries. Please be sure you use RV specific plumbing anti-freeze that uses pure non toxic propylene glycol.
I guess Dow Chemicals has made several warnings about the quality of plumbing antifreeze.

 

[Kabouter]

I was also considering just using pure neutral grain spirit, but that research is still in the future. That might be hard on the seals in the system.

Also, another plug that it is nice to be able to order Truma parts online. I just got this little guy: Truma Frost Control Valve (John Guest Fittings) | Truma Combi heaters + Spare Parts | Leisureshopdirect to add another frost protection layer.