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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Info I provided above regarding the anchor dia is from the drawings on 8020.net

Note the 16.51mm dimension called out on the drawing for 30 mm extrusion and 20.57mm on 40mm extrusions. Perhaps the diameters on the anchor cams (why are the called cams?) may be intentional.
View attachment 231536 View attachment 231537

Just a guess that taking out the meat into the corner of the extrusion is not an issue regarding fastener strength cuz not on axis of bolt clamping force. Still a lot of metal between the between the hole and the end of the extrusion .... BUT ... it MAY comprise the strenght of the slots that would be uses for making other connection at a right angle to that anchor .... MAYBE. 🤷‍♂️

Looks like the size of the t-nuts on the 30 series and 40 series anchors are also different sizes ... you know, to match the different slot sizes. As well as the aformentioned different size bolts.

I'd check the t-nut fit before even think drilling a 20mm hole. Sure seems like a 16mm bit and some 30 series conectors are the way to go. ;)

Yea looks like McMaster is calling that out for 40mm extrusions.
McMaster-Carr
Yeah... sure looking like McMaster has these wrong. It's funny... the 30mm end connectors I bought from them have an 8mm bolt and I was thinking that just looks WAY too large for the extrusions. I'm thinking now that both of their 30mm connectors I've purchased (anchors and end-fasteners) are actually for 40mm, in spite of the clear labeling on the package. 🤔

I'll be figuring out what to do with this in the next two couple of days, as I've finished the galley mock-up in 8020 with basic angle connectors and it's time to decide what type of connectors to use and where... and I'm guessing I don't actually have either anchor nor end-fasteners that will work... 🤔
 
The "Pilot" is the Key to the Counterbore cutting well. It constrains counterbore in the radial axis, normally counterbore's are used add recess's for screw heads (sit flush with surface) or to spot face surfaces (on casting) for good bearing of the underside of screw heads. A .001-.003 clearance of hole to pilot works well, more clearance (.005-.010) will also work , the difference will be the finished diameter (oversize) and taper of the counterbore. for most uses (screw heads) this is not a issue. For the anchor connectors I would assume that a minimum taper and on size hole would be desirable.

If I was to do this on a drill press I would use a Split Point drill (self centering properties - improved hole location)and not a Chisel point drill which is typical of hardware store drills. Home Depot sells Split Point drill's. the difference is the grind on the end of the drill. drill hole .010-.015 undersize, follow with a Reamer .001 oversize of the pilot diameter. Run the Counterbore at a low speed to reduce chatter (vibration) use WD-40 as a cutting lubricant (works well on aluminum) keeps the chips from gumming up the works, better hole accuracy and finish, with drill press off, insert pilot into hole, add a clamp (C-clamp?) to hold the 80/20 to the drill press again to reduce chatter (vibration)

Split Point drill are also good when drill harder material, Regular (chisel point) drills work harden the material (make the material even harder) Stainless steel in notorious for work hardening when drilling. Regular (chisel point) drills are good for drilling wood.

I am a machinist with access to a Bridgeport manual mill also a CNC mill, so I have no need to do this on a drill press. But I am confident that if the above is followed, satisfactory hole geometry for the "anchor connectors" is possible on a drill press.

Regarding using End mills in a drill press (DONT) Milling machine Spindles are constructed much more accurately and stiffer (preloaded bearing) than drill press spindles, Drills and Countersinks with their tapered points have a dampening and stabilizing effect on the tool also self centering effect when drilling into solid surface's. ever notice how a drill chatters when opening up an existing hole to a larger diameter.
End mill's with a square end will exercise all the play in the drill press spindle when drilling into solid material, combined with the inherent lack of stiffness in most drill presses and you got a hot mess.

While it may seem like a lot of work it goes quick, if one was doing thousands of holes I wouldn't recommend this method, the average DIY van builder is maybe going to need maybe 50 anchor connectors? at most.

Once the pilot hole is drilled the Reamer and Counterbore will follow the existing hole (no choice) A drill fixture (with a hardened drill bushing) to locate the pilot hole would make it almost foolproof.

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Discussion starter · #23 ·
The "Pilot" is the Key to the Counterbore cutting well.
...
Wow. I re-read that three times already. Going to soak in that information. Thank you for the expert input - I had no idea on pretty much any of that other than the, "yup, it chatters," that I've experienced so often with my crappy tools and techniques.


It turns out I had purchased a batch of anchor fasteners on eBay a while ago... and then a batch of them from McMaster. And the McMaster ones are simply wrong. So... it looks like one of the two-step bits I got might work. I will try it soon.

And it looks like all the end-fasteners from McMaster are also wrong - or, at least, wrong bolt included - so I'll have to replace those as well.


Hope to test the anchors later today... or tomorrow... good luck to me! 🤣
 
I did use the end connectors where I did not want angles to show.

I used two different methods for mounting 1/4" panels on series 15. Both inset panel 1/8" to expose the extrusion corner radius. Looks much better than flush.

1. Simple wood block where panel did not need to be removable.

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For removable panels I fabricated a custom angle. Need chop saw and band saw for this one.

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I had bought a pilot counterbore last week after seeing a comment on a different forum.. today I had a chance to try it.

This is the tool I have been waiting for.

The downside is two steps, and having the extra hole. The smallest pilot I could find was 1/4. I used one size larger drill bit.

Works great. No chatter, round hole.

Extra points for "safety sandals".

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Video of the first cut, including shedding the protective wax:

 
Also, I used a drill press with a drill press vice bolted down to the press. Big heavy bolts. Get the right speed,Lube and an end mill worked great for 80/20 fastener they requires and end mill. Don’t recall the name of the fastener.
 
I had bought a pilot counterbore last week after seeing a comment on a different forum.. today I had a chance to try it.

This is the tool I have been waiting for.

The downside is two steps, and having the extra hole. The smallest pilot I could find was 1/4. I used one size larger drill bit.

Works great. No chatter, round hole.

Extra points for "safety sandals".

View attachment 231670

View attachment 231669

Video of the first cut, including shedding the protective wax:

So, I have used the plastic jig and a regular drill bit in my drill press. Utter failure from wobling. Of course the jig while cheap to print was good for one time only. The jig might last longer if the bit would work properly.

What exact pilot counter bore bit, where to purchase and is this 80/20 15 series or 10 series. Can't tell from the pics. Thanks!

BTW, sandals are the only way to drill when it's 95+ F.
 
I'm planning to use some anchor fasteners in the new van (and maybe retrofit to the old van) and I'm having a hard time finding the necessary 20mm counterbore drill-bit that includes a pilot.

I'm finding plenty of flat / counterbore bits in the correct size, but I don't expect them to work too well without a pilot (even with a drill press). And I'm thinking I need a long enough pilot bit to bite into the middle section of the extrusion - so I'm unsure if basic 2-step bits will work.

Anyone point me in the right direction? The 8020 site doesn't even list one for 30-series. I /think/ it's the same as 40 series, though. But theirs don't use pilots.
Took me 2 minutes to find them on Amazon
 
So, I have used the plastic jig and a regular drill bit in my drill press. Utter failure from wobling. Of course the jig while cheap to print was good for one time only. The jig might last longer if the bit would work properly.

What exact pilot counter bore bit, where to purchase and is this 80/20 15 series or 10 series. Can't tell from the pics. Thanks!

BTW, sandals are the only way to drill when it's 95+ F.
I used this counterbore for 10-series.


And this pilot:


I didn't use the jig, just used an anchor fastener and an acrylic pen to mark the center line.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Took me 2 minutes to find them on Amazon
Should have taken you much less than two minutes. Unfortunately, they're not all quite what they say they are. You've been here almost a year and you choose this to be your first post? 😏

On the outside chance that you weren't just intentionally being a troll... if you think you found something useful, a link would be helpful.
 
For my series 10 build, I used a 9/16" 4-flute end mill on my budget Wen drill press to cut anchor holes. I started with a 2-flute which didn't work too well. The hole comes out a tad wider than optimum but the results were good.

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For my series 10 build, I used a 9/16" 4-flute end mill on my budget Wen drill press to cut anchor holes. I started with a 2-flute which didn't work too well. The hole comes out a tad wider than optimum but the results were good.

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I have the same drill press. And I did get some good results from a proper end-mill, but I'd call it hit-and miss. The pieces of 1030 I'd be working on where the most frustrating where I'd get two great holes and the third would just go completely bonkers. The pilot counterbores are a lot more reliable.

I have seen a lot of advice to use lower RPMs, though. 1500 seems high?
 
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