That's pretty impressive, really...

 

This looks like it may be focused on personal ownership rather than fleets.
Still crossing my fingers for a PHEV. First one to come out with one gets my money!

 

I agree that the PHEV concept will work for a lot of vehicle owners, and might be the ideal approach for vehicles in general.

Unfortunately, CA AQMD / Gov Newsom and NY more or less banned this concept from going anywhere by focusing on puristic EVs.

They strong armed the car companies into a room in Sacramento and forced them into an agreement sort of mafia style.

Maybe you can write to him and ask him to change his mind so that we can all have sensible vehicle options?

 

No way the sprinter will go 300 miles on 110kw, that is just impossible, if on the current one with 55kw they get 80 miles, than for 300 it would need to be closer to 200kw )) if they make the range around 220 250 miles i am sure it will work for 80 90% of the people that buy it, meaning trades and local deliveries in the suburbs. The current transit is just not enough range for trades, it might work 90% of the time but i know i have days when i get close to 200 miles.

 

If you read the article, it did go about 300 miles. In real-world driving, not on a test track. it's not the most efficient thing, being a big heavy box, they got 2.84 mi/kWh. Most cars get between 4-5 miles per kWh. But you're right, they are guessing at the size of the battery bank.

 

Phhtt... "read"... nobody reads articles... just the headline... that's enough!

Whatever they've got in it, the 300 miles is a good thing. (And glad that it's an actual test, not just claimed.) I think theoretical 300 is ideal minimum because it means ~250 real-world - where you can't afford to finish with only 3 miles remaining lest you be stuck with a dead battery.

I still wish there were series-hybrid options... dream setup. Even if it's only 100 mile range but a 1L engine for charging. That could be a 1000-mile per tank van. That would be awesome. Never happening.

 

Yeah this is all just guesses at this point using Manufacturer-published press release “data” so all very speculative.

Hummer EV range and efficiency estimates (1.6mi/kWH) indicate a much larger battery pack (212 kWH) to clear 300mi with a big heavy box.

 

I’m not religious but i pray for a hybrid transit every night

 

I think this was the ideal conditions for a max range test, day time and nice weather. I need to see a winter night range test and a hot humid summer test.

 

uh oh, ford better get their butt in gear [or rather fix ratio direct drive] i've spent too much time laying out my conversion based on the e-transit dimensions. the range stuff is confusing because of various 'flavorings' for example the e-transit does not report the actual size of its battery but rather 80% of it. if sprinter is doing the same thing then its pack is closer to 138 kwh. thus by killing their battery they can easily get 300 miles

 

There was no mention of hauling a load? So it will be less than 100 miles in the real world, like my Transit that weighs 8400 lbs.

 

@Chance posted about what I was going to: load isn't near as big a factor as speed. We've collectively seen that with our Transits and it's certainly the case in my Tesla - not that "load" means much there, but speed is ALL the difference.

 

Load has much less affect on range than speed and selected route. Every time they showed speedometer in video it suggests speed was fairly slow. With Eco tires shown in pictures, driving at steady modest speeds can result in 2.84 miles per kWh. I’m sure eTransit can do similar efficiency if driven slow enough and without too many stops.

We have seen this before when GM tested their electric commercial van. Unless they state the average speed during the 475 km trip, it means little compared to real highway driving at steady 70 MPH or similar.

The other interesting point is that US will be first to receive the large battery option for extended range. No kidding. In Europe where vehicle gross weight is often limited to 3,500 kg, Mercedes could not previously install larger battery because payload was too low. What’s the point of going far if having to drive empty, or only hauling potato chips or toilet paper.

In US the Sprinter can have much greater GVWR, so possible to haul a ton of battery weight and still have some payload left.

It is a great looking van, but we need a lot more useful data.

 

Hi Chance,
The last comment on the page the video is on says:

Translated from german elektroauto-news.net:
On board were two drivers (each weighing 80 kilograms) and a payload of 120 kilograms at an average speed of 73.5 km/h. The maximum speed was limited to 90 km/h.

So, a 45 mh average.
For a 45 MPH average, maybe 50+ MPH on their open highway sections?

Not quite up to realistic camper van trips, but seems like good news to me.

Gary

 

Yep, it's the accelerating to speed that eats up kWhs. But as we all know with our vans, there is an exponential reduction in efficiency beyond 55mph cuz moving all that air out of the way.
Just think of miles per kWh the same as MPG. These big ol' vans just aren't going to be very efficient at highway speed regardless of load or type of propulsion.
Anecdote: I go running at a place about 5 miles away. When I take the Fiat EV there, it will reduce estimated remaining range by 6-8 miles if I take the highway, but only 2-3 if I take city streets adjacent to the highway.

Ford engineers have probably already explored this, but I think a modular battery pack where extra units can be added would be a cheap and easy manufacturing option. Kind of like offering an extra capacity fuel tank, or dual tanks like they did in olden days. People could order their van/truck with the basic battery pack, or add one or two units as options to double or triple the capacity. Or have them added later. Offering just one size battery module limits the audience of buyers. Put the thing up on racks, open the battery module cage, slap in an extra unit, update the software (if not automatic), and yer done.

But I wonder if stealing battery modules will take the place of stealing catalytic converters...

 

Yep, it's the accelerating to speed that eats up kWhs. But as we all know with our vans, there is an exponential reduction in efficiency beyond 55mph cuz moving all that air out of the way.
Just think of miles per kWh the same as MPG. These big ol' vans just aren't going to be very efficient at highway speed regardless of load or type of propulsion.
Anecdote: I go running at a place about 5 miles away. When I take the Fiat EV there, it will reduce estimated remaining range by 6-8 miles if I take the highway, but only 2-3 if I take city streets adjacent to the highway.

Ford engineers have probably already explored this, but I think a modular battery pack where extra units can be added would be a cheap and easy manufacturing option. Kind of like offering an extra capacity fuel tank, or dual tanks like they did in olden days. People could order their van/truck with the basic battery pack, or add one or two units as options to double or triple the capacity. Or have them added later. Offering just one size battery module limits the audience of buyers. Put the thing up on racks, open the battery module cage, slap in an extra unit, update the software (if not automatic), and yer done.

But I wonder if stealing battery modules will take the place of stealing catalytic converters...

y

Yep, it's the accelerating to speed that eats up kWhs. But as we all know with our vans, there is an exponential reduction in efficiency beyond 55mph cuz moving all that air out of the way.
Just think of miles per kWh the same as MPG. These big ol' vans just aren't going to be very efficient at highway speed regardless of load or type of propulsion.
Anecdote: I go running at a place about 5 miles away. When I take the Fiat EV there, it will reduce estimated remaining range by 6-8 miles if I take the highway, but only 2-3 if I take city streets adjacent to the highway.

Ford engineers have probably already explored this, but I think a modular battery pack where extra units can be added would be a cheap and easy manufacturing option. Kind of like offering an extra capacity fuel tank, or dual tanks like they did in olden days. People could order their van/truck with the basic battery pack, or add one or two units as options to double or triple the capacity. Or have them added later. Offering just one size battery module limits the audience of buyers. Put the thing up on racks, open the battery module cage, slap in an extra unit, update the software (if not automatic), and yer done.

But I wonder if stealing battery modules will take the place of stealing catalytic converters...

Your "Anecdote", Surly, has been fun to observe on my spouse's 2018 Smart fortwo electric two seater. When she allows my use, the measured optional routes I travel show significantly increased electricity consumption with higher velocity. I love it when the miles actually traveled, say 10 miles, consumes electricity for a 8 mile trip. This especially occurs when "eco" mode is selected, high speeds are avoided and fast starts are avoided. Quite surprising to have a spouse who is into hypermiling with a currently available e-car. Her other hypermiler vehicle is a VW Golf tdi. I like her hotrods....and she likes mine... Maybe someday I can e-sprint all the way to the finish line even if it is 300 miles away.

 

So it will be a limited use van, no good on the highway, another local around town vehicle for short trip. AKA useless....

Aren't most of you guys, camper builders and travelers?

 

300 miles! This is great news - more progress in the right direction.

 

I'll believe it when an independent testing agency, that is not part of the EV cult, does the test. 🍿

 

Mercedes Releases A $1,200 Annual Subscription To Unlock a 60 To 110 HP increase For Its EVs.
BMW will let you have Heated seats for $18 per month.
I wonder what Ford has planned for the Transit?

 

Although a Mercedes employee was driving, the whole thing was observed by a third party: TÜV SÜD (not an EV organization, but a testing company of all products)

"The efficiency test was strictly monitored by the product testing and compliance organization, TÜV SÜD. The tires were inflated to the manufacturer's specification before leaving and a TÜV SÜD representative rode inside the van as a passenger to oversee compliance.

Under this TÜV SÜD supervision, a Mercedes employee was able to drive the new eSprinter from Stuggart to Munich and back, covering a total of 295 miles and ending with 3% state of charge displayed."

300 miles is good, but not remarkable. Given enough battery module capacity, it could drive 2000+ miles. But you'd lose a little interior cargo room, like the bottom 6". Given a 100 gallon tank, a diesel Sprinter could drive 2300 miles, but you'd lose a little interior cargo room. At some point, more driving range is pointless, especially to the average driver. The industry has determined that 350 miles is what most people want/need. Thus our 25gal tank, and compact cars 10gal tanks.

Range and charge time are the two biggest bugaboos for the potential electric propulsion vehicle buyers. Range is pretty much solved for the average consumer, and the DC>DC superchargers can dump over 20 miles per minute into a battery. But those are only in the pricey cars like the Lucid. I've had slow gas pumps that were only putting in a gallon or two every minute. At 15-16mpg, the EVs would be refueling faster, but this is comparing the extremes on either side. Filling up with gas/diesel is still much faster, for when you need to get out of the pit and back into the race sooner. But charge time is still the biggest hurdle, even if it's importance is exaggerated. Most people would be just fine charging up overnight at home once a week to get 300 miles, or at a supercharger for an hour while they have lunch or go see a movie or shop or whatever.

No, if you drive hundreds of miles a day, these are not for YOU. But because they won't work for YOU (or me) doesn't mean they should be denied to people they do work for. I'm going to choose to not purchase an eVan until they are more convenient for the way I use my van. Which I'm certain will be way before the CA EV new car law goes into effect in a dozen years. Doubt I'll still be in CA, but most of the world is doing the same thing. 300 mile Sprinter is getting close, but 500 mile with 8hr home charging or 1 hour supercharger would be more than fine. Besides, 8-10 year warranty on the batteries, as now required by law; fast-charge all the time reducing the battery life, and get new batteries right before warranty expires!

 

Sounds good on paper, but not a real world test.

 

Gotta start somewhere.

 

You will still be able to buy a plug in hybrid in California after 2035.

 

we just need to figure out how to power a car from the displeasure of people grumpy about change

 

negative energy

 

I just watched a FB video of an engineer comparing how much hydrogen it would take to go 300 miles in a V8 Internal Combustion hydrogen engine vs a hydrogen fuelcell powered EV. Same speed, same HP. I had the sound off, but it appeared to be about 3x more in the ICE. And the VOLUME of space needed for the tank significantly bigger than a 55gal drum, about two drums, for the V8 internal combustion hydrogen vehicle.

 

oddly enough water has about the same energy density of gasoline. its about 26 MPG [of water], the issue is once hydrogen is extracted from the water it is a gas and that takes up a lot of volume

 

I got the Transit to convert to a rolling hotel room. I'll get an EV van when charging stations are at least as common as gas stations. Till then, I still think that a full EV van is only going to be functional in an urban environment. Plumbers, electricians, delivery services, EMT's, shuttle buses and the like, that can return to a charging station every night would be the practical uses.

 

I don’t know if charging stations will ever be as common as gas stations. Every gas car has to fill at a gas station but most e-cars most of the time will fill at home. There just isn’t the need to fuel all those cars at a separate site. High power chargers are great near travel corridors but maybe just a few in city for tourists passing through. IDK, I’m not planning the whole project. Is anybody? There are a number of different companies and they probably don’t communicate with each other.

 

you can drive more than 20mph on your highways?! How many people live near, like, 9?

 

valid points.
Like when I ran out of gas once as a teenager, I learned to plan ahead and never ran out again. I suspect the learning curve will be steep, and some are just incapable of learning.
The Kar Kulture, which I participate in, of long car trips on the holidays and driving for vacations may need to adapt. A lot of us already avoid going anywhere on Thanksgiving simply because of the punitive travel conditions. My family has gotten together on "shadow holidays" many times because of the commoners all traveling at the same time; meeting up the weekend before Thanksgiving, or the week between xmas and New Years. (The best Grand Canyon trip we had was when my parents, brother, sister, and our respective spouses (no one had kids) went between xmas and New Years. All the lights and decorations were still up, the staff at El Tovar was friendly and happy cuz holiday was over AND there were only 1/3 of the normal amount of people. It was cold AF but it was a very good trip. It was like being Michael Jackson and having Disneyland closed and reserved just for you; except without the little boys...)
The commoners and peasantry will not, or cannot, escape the parameters of the kar kulture we have developed over the last 75 years, especially in the West, where cities were built and expanded based on the idea that you would drive EVERYWHERE. But as with most things, as it becomes more expensive or inconvenient, people will adapt. I also expect technology and supply of service to meet demand to adapt. It's not going to happen overnight, just like the transition to EV passenger vehicles isn't going to happen overnight, so I have the feeling we'll be fine. The dwindling global supply of crude oil and the increased demand for it by China and India as they grow to become like Merkuh in their lifestyle and quality of life means that "energy independence" will need to involve other ways to drive to the store or commute to work and back without using crude oil products. Or, we could just ban selling USA crude oil and products abroad and stretch OUR supply by a few more decades. Still, it will run out eventually.

note: the CA and other areas banning the sale of NEW ICE passenger vehicles doesn't go into effect for a dozen years. And even after it does, people can keep their ICE vehicle, or buy a used one. The 2035 deadline likely means that it would be at least 2045 before more than half of passenger vehicles in CA are EV, and probably close to 2080 before more than 95% are EV. Assuming some other technology or system doesn't come along and make EVs or personal vehicle ownership obsolete for anything except recreational or enthusiast use.

 

Or cold fusion devices the size of a carry-on suitcase that will supply a lifetime of clean energy. Game over.

 

Hi,
Don't know how accurate the quote below fro m Quora is, but it seems like the basic story is true - its much cheaper to build a charging station and much less costly to run a charging station than a gas station...

The average sale price of an existing gas station is $2 million. If it is reasonably located it could generate as much as $300,000 a year in profit, most of that from the convenience store side of the business. With a gas station, the permitting process for the tanks at a new location can be expensive, depending on the particular state’s approach to a future hazmat site.

The reported price for a multiple station supercharger installation is $250,000

Installing public standard fast chargers is $50,000 for a single-head, with both cables, comparable to superchargers for multi-head. (In both cases, assumes existing power at the site, that just has to be brought from transformer to charger.)

By comparison a gasoline dispenser (credit card accepting) is $20,000 each, plus an unknown amount for its share of the storage tanks.

One big thing lowering the ongoing cost of charger installation is the lack of labor costs. Gas stations must have a human on site to trigger the fire control, etc. I have yet to see a charger with an attendant.

So, maybe that will make for lots of charging stations fast?

On our last trip up to Banff, we stayed overnight at a small campground at Milk River, AB (a very small town). Tucked away in a corner of the campground was a two head commercial EV charger - kind of surprising.

Gary

 

This really isn't about pollution. More about getting the peons into mass transit or walking. The ranks of peons is swelling by the day.
The swiss early adopters should come on here in the spring and let us know how things worked out for them.
A lot of democratic heads of state in the past couple of years have expressed their admiration of how the CCP does things.

One big thing lowering the ongoing cost of charger installation is the lack of labor costs. Gas stations must have a human on site to trigger the fire control, etc. I have yet to see a charger with an attendant.

Minimum wage business tax write off.

 

Privileges and entitlements only last as long as the cheap resources or labor will allow.
Having a personal vehicle (or two, or three) per person makes zero sense the higher the population density of an area gets.
You also can't just pave more lanes to take care of traffic in high density areas; that's been proven time and again.

For rural areas, yeah, just keep doing what we've been doing for 75 years; those areas are slow to grow, and slower to change. And that's a GOOD thing. But don't let the ruralites drag the majority of the population down like a stone around the neck with their reluctance to accept anything new and different before they've had a few decades to look at it. Same goes for urbanites; don't force things that ONLY work well for cities on the rural areas.