[njvagabond]

If only I could find documentation for their RS485 bus...

Contact them. For significant purchases even if I don't have an actual need, I sometimes just find some questions to ask to customer to check out the quality of support I can expect down the line company. Heck I just used that approach as one data point in vetting choices for a new primary care physician. 🤷‍♀️

 

[Pajarojo]

there's a driver out there for a number of serial connected bms' for VenusOS. I wouldn't be shocked if some of the alternate battery options would work with this but you would obviously want to ask first! I'm going to attempt to use it with my overkill solar BMS. Not sure when I'll get to that, hopefully this fall.

Victron VenusOS driver for serial battery BMS - LLT/JBD / Daly Smart / ANT / JKBMS / Heltec / Renogy - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

 

[Canuck77]

It sucks about those cells. I've bought 3 x Renogy 100Ah batteries for my build, and now seeing more options like SOK and whatnot was worrying I'd done the wrong thing. But to be honest the hassle/value factor of a pre-built seems like it's probably worth it. Contrary to some others experiences, Renogy support have been pretty decent for me (someone in the warehouse picked the wrong solar kit with a non-MPPT controller, I didn't realize for months, they sent me the right controller immediately when I reported the mixup, no questions asked their side). Mind you, I'm not trying for 600Ah of capacity, the stakes are a little higher for your build I think.

 

[eranrund]

Contact them. For significant purchases even if I don't have an actual need, I sometimes just find some questions to ask to customer to check out the quality of support I can expect down the line company. Heck I just used that approach as one data point in vetting choices for a new primary care physician. 🤷‍♀️

Good idea, I'll reach out and see what they say!

It sucks about those cells. I've bought 3 x Renogy 100Ah batteries for my build, and now seeing more options like SOK and whatnot was worrying I'd done the wrong thing. But to be honest the hassle/value factor of a pre-built seems like it's probably worth it. Contrary to some others experiences, Renogy support have been pretty decent for me (someone in the warehouse picked the wrong solar kit with a non-MPPT controller, I didn't realize for months, they sent me the right controller immediately when I reported the mixup, no questions asked their side). Mind you, I'm not trying for 600Ah of capacity, the stakes are a little higher for your build I think.

600Ah at 24v... that would require 12x 100Ah 12v batteries. Hence why I am trying to find creative solutions

 

[eranrund]

Some minor updates - a lot of projects under way but nothing completed yet:

• I received my gray water tank, similar to Plastic-mart 18 gallon grey tank installation photos. I ordered directly from Ronco Plastics. Same model, but I went with more fittings to give me more options. Figured I can easily put a plug in the ones I don't use.
• I received 16 302Ah LiFePo4 cells thanks to a tip from a forum member about a place that stocks them in the US. Now to build an enclosure and balance and all that... it will take awhile.
• After much cursing, I got the hydronic Espar heater to work. Was running into air in the pipes issues, and the solution was this radiator vacuuming kit. Tip: use a propylene-glycol based coolant such as this one. Less poisonous to both humans and animals. I was very grateful for going with this solution as I drained and refilled my system 3 times trying to deal with the air. Last night I only filled it with distilled water to make my life easier. Will drain and replace with coolant sometime soon. I was impressed at how quiet this heater is.
• Started framing out the shower using 8020. Not the most efficient use of space but saves me from having to deal with all the funky angles at the front of the van. In my prototype shown below I am using TNutz brackets, but the end result will use mostly anchor fasteners. I've decided to leave the annoying foam blob alone, and build around it. Main reason behind that was to not give insurance a possible way to deny a claim if things go very wrong for me at some point in the future. I'm planning on attaching the front top part of the shower to the A beam, and the bottom part through the floor, with the hope that this will also protect me in case of unplanned rapid deceleration.

After milling these pieces I realized I actually don't have as many anchor fasteners as I thought I did, so at 2am I called it a night and went home. Ordered a bunch of them, and will continue sometime soon.

 

[gregoryx]

Great progress! That shower is looking very similar to mine. I'll be watching you for insights.

 

[njvagabond]

After milling these pieces

DIY anchor connector bores 👍

 

[eranrund]

Great progress! That shower is looking very similar to mine. I'll be watching you for insights.

I got the 8020 idea from seeing your thread Gentle reminder that I would love to see more photos of it when you have a moment to upload them.

DIY anchor connector bores 👍

It is very satisfying, having never used a mill before this van project. I took a 4 day mill/lathe class at a local makerspace a couple of months ago, and I'm lucky that one of my workshop buddies own one so I now get to drill fancy holes at exactly where I want them to be. Looking forward to learning how to do more things with it in the future.

 

[gregoryx]

I got the 8020 idea from seeing your thread Gentle reminder that I would love to see more photos of it when you have a moment to upload them.
...

I'd like to see some progress myself! Been out playing... 😜

 

[eranrund]

Deciding on a layout is challenging and I keep changing my mind. After my two camping trips in the van it became clear to me that I want to be able to have a place to sit and enjoy the views from the sliding door. In my temporary setup I had a twin size bed located along the driver side wall, just past where the shower would be (so its driver seat -> shower -> bed). But that bed is too small, and any kind of configuration I could think of significantly cuts down on storage and counter space. So I am thinking of maybe putting a two person (~37" wide I think) bench right behind the driver seat, followed by the shower, and then a queen size bed in the back.
That means the fridge, that I already have and may or may not be regretting, would need to go under the bed. The fridge is about 30" tall, so the top of mattress will be around 36-37" from the floor. I am going to have to mock that up to see how I like the reduced headspace and the less convenient access of having to jump to get into the bed. Maybe I can have a drawer step from a narrow cabinet I can fit between the bed and the shower.

This is the current mockup, and I'd love to hear any thoughts:

And the initial attempt at some Cardboard Aided Design:

The shower would begin approximately where the triangular corner bracket pointing up is. The room between that and the fridge on the right will be a narrow cabinet. Bed begins at the top of the fridge, all the way to the rear.

Separately from this, I began doing some ceiling work. First I got some polyiso between the A and B pillars:

Then I attached a furring strip to the B pillar, and templated and cut a 1/4" BB panel. The fit is pretty good on one side, and less so on the other but not enough for me to re-cut.

Tip: Don't let the white side of thinsulate touch plywood. It sticks to it and the result is visible in the above photo. Sands away easily but still annoying.

I am debating what to do for the ceiling. In the previous van I had knotty pine tongue and groove. It looked great and didn't squeak, but was a huge pain to install. And with the curves of this van, it will be even more annoying. Plus the weight...
So if not T&G, then what? Part of my is thinking just the BB, maybe paint it white, maybe leave it as is (will seal with oil-modified polyurethane if thats the case. Used that for the floor and it was pretty easy to work with). Or maybe cover with some headliner? I think even if eventually I do decide to do T&G, I could do that at the end once the shower and cabinets and all that are mounted, so I will have less work to do.

Due to the curve of the ceiling getting the second panel to be flush with the first one is going to be interesting. Currently thinking of sticking it behind the first one and tracing the first one and cutting with a jigsaw.

 

[njvagabond]

Smart move with the test runs. Given this is your second build it confirms the importance to me. I suppose with 8020 the majority of your work on the shower will still be usable.

A fixed drivers seat with a bench directly in back seem like a poor use of space to me. Obviously with a swivel you are not looking straight out the door and no seating for two. I never checked the view with mine (at ~45 deg?) and I'm away from my van, so can't provide insight on that. Maybe there is some way to make that space multi-purpose. I suppose your bench setup has the benefit of storage. If it folded down from the wall, you could have the bench + a drivers swivel. Two types of seating > storage amount?

You've probably seen this.

Maybe 1/2 the bench could be the toilet that slides out? Perhaps a top that extends with a slide or hinge with a flip down leg to double the width. You could have a swivel seat and a bench that could be used for 1 or 2 people.

If you can rotate your fridge and place it against the side wall. Then you could pick up more cabinet space in the living area instead of garage space. Another thought would be to justify the bed to the passengers wall and shove the shower all the way back to the bed, and move the fridge in front of the shower.

In my layout there is a galley cabinet that ends about 2 ft before the drivers seat, which provides gads of legroom when the seat is swiveled. On that end of the galley there will be the sink with a toilet underneath (if it all can fit 🤞) that slides out into that space. The space could also be used shower too? Not sure if I want to deal with the complexity of installing a shower pan. Maybe something portable, although not thrilled about the hassle to use factor with that. Will decide on that after some experience using the van.

 

[orton]

How often will you sit on the seat looking out the slider door?

 

[tthrsn]

Deciding on a layout is challenging and I keep changing my mind. After my two camping trips in the van it became clear to me that I want to be able to have a place to sit and enjoy the views from the sliding door. In my temporary setup I had a twin size bed located along the driver side wall, just past where the shower would be (so its driver seat -> shower -> bed). But that bed is too small, and any kind of configuration I could think of significantly cuts down on storage and counter space ...

My solution to this problem was two north-south twin beds. One folds into a couch that looks out of the slider and the other is a bunk over the fridge. Photos here. You could run a NS couch-bed and an EW bunk (but you would have to be more careful with leveling the van).

The lower twin is plenty large for two people to commune in the evening or morning, while having two beds gives a very good night's sleep without having to crawl over someone in the night to get to the bathroom. The other advantage with two beds is that I can travel with someone that I wouldn't want to share a bed with.

The couch with a view is one of my favorite things in the van. It is just a light aluminum frame and couple pieces of plywood hinged together with a 6" memory foam mattress that bends to form the couch back and seat. I built a mockup to get the seat height, seat depth, back height, seat angle and back angle correct for comfort. I also tested different plywood thicknesses to get the correct amount of springiness in the seat. I built a little footstool too. It's like sitting in an armchair.

Meals are served on a large "table" that is placed between us on the couch. And when I open up both sliders, the rear doors and the bulkhead hatch, I feel like I am sitting outside. The couch (along with the screens doors) makes the van a very comfortable cottage on wheels.

Cheers.

 

[gregoryx]

Swivel seats aren't enough of a view position? They seem to work for us - with a nice view... when it's nice enough out. On the bench seat behind the driver, we're currently running the 31" against the wall and it works fine with the driver's seat swiveled. Had planned to use an alternate mount position with it facing forward, but not feeling the need for it at this point.



Here's a test position that showed it makes for a SMALL pass between the 31" seat at the galley.

This is the current mount position. The 36" would work great here. But I already gave away the 36" seat.

Here it is in the swivels and table position. Probably going to put an extension on the table because it's a bit far from the driver. Also have another Lagun that will be mounted on the other side - which can serve driver and passengers.

I know you've seen this photo before... but it sort of /barely/ works to have the driver's seat swiveled even with the shower this close. Compare this to the photo above and you can see that the corner of the driver's seat clears the corner of the shower. And, of course, you can build a different location than we have if that's the priority.

 

[gregoryx]

Maybe not the look you want... the melamine-coated MDF 1/4" worked great for the ceiling. Basically, a finished version of what you show above. There are also many other 1/4" finished options that could look pretty good and they're super easy to install. We used the rails for cabinet mounting; but two friends have done a similar install edge-to-edge and it looks CLEAN.

 

[eranrund]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply!

Smart move with the test runs. Given this is your second build it confirms the importance to me. I suppose with 8020 the majority of your work on the shower will still be usable.

A fixed drivers seat with a bench directly in back seem like a poor use of space to me. Obviously with a swivel you are not looking straight out the door and no seating for two. I never checked the view with mine (at ~45 deg?) and I'm away from my van, so can't provide insight on that. Maybe there is some way to make that space multi-purpose. I suppose your bench setup has the benefit of storage. If it folded down from the wall, you could have the bench + a drivers swivel. Two types of seating > storage amount?

You've probably seen this.

Maybe 1/2 the bench could be the toilet that slides out? Perhaps a top that extends with a slide or hinge with a flip down leg to double the width. You could have a swivel seat and a bench that could be used for 1 or 2 people.

If you can rotate your fridge and place it against the side wall. Then you could pick up more cabinet space in the living area instead of garage space. Another thought would be to justify the bed to the passengers wall and shove the shower all the way back to the bed, and move the fridge in front of the shower.

In my layout there is a galley cabinet that ends about 2 ft before the drivers seat, which provides gads of legroom when the seat is swiveled. On that end of the galley there will be the sink with a toilet underneath (if it all can fit 🤞) that slides out into that space. The space could also be used shower too? Not sure if I want to deal with the complexity of installing a shower pan. Maybe something portable, although not thrilled about the hassle to use factor with that. Will decide on that after some experience using the van.

I am actually thinking both a bench and driver swivel. I think it might be a bit cramped but could perhaps fit 4 people sitting that way. I like the bench being used for storage - can never have too much of it, and that would actually be prime storage since it's big and easy to access. Thinking maybe the entire bench can also be made removable, if I ever want to transport something bulky. No need for me to store the toilet there since that can happily live inside the full-size shower stall. I've seen Humble Road's video (I love his videos!) and his idea there is quite interesting. I wish he had shown the curtain and where the showerhead is, where you put your soap and shampoo and such, etc. It is a really good use of space and I should probably consider something like that.
Rotating the fridge to have it be against the wall is difficult if the shower is anywhere but the very front of the van, unless I am willing to make the bench only sit one person which is less appealing to me:

If I put the fridge at the opposite side, then the isle becomes narrow:

The shower cannot overlap with the fridge if I don't want the fridge door hitting it when opening.
A thing I need to remember to think about is how to make sure the fridge is removable once everything is installed...

I think I have to build a mock version of the bench to see how that feels like, and then try and visualize the swivel. Would rather not install one until I am 100% sure I want it because it requires cutting the seat plastic base and also $.

Another option is to consider a different fridge that doesn't force me to raise the bed so much. I hope to try building some janky test bed platform sometime soon to see how it feels like.

All these test runs are crucial for me - even with CAD I am having a hard time seeing how things feel like in real life.
For example in the original CAD version the kitchen galley extended all the way to the edge of the footstep, but that made the entryway feel super cramped. Hence the change to reduce the height at the first couple of inches, and I'll probably put a drawer there. It also serves as a nice footrest when lounging in the passenger swivel. The CAD didn't make me think about any of these things until I saw it in real life.

How often will you sit on the seat looking out the slider door?

Based on how use the van, pretty often when I use it for its main purpose. My main reason for building this is for not having to use a tent in festivals - think Burning Man, and events similar to it (but much smaller). In those settings I spend a good amount of time with friends inside the van, and I learnt over the last two times I used this van that I am more likely to have people come say hi when they can see who is hanging out there. Big difference compared to hanging out in the bed all the way to the back.
When I take the vans on solo/couple adventures to explore nature I probably won't be using the bench very much.

My solution to this problem was two north-south twin beds. One folds into a couch that looks out of the slider and the other is a bunk over the fridge. Photos here. You could run a NS couch-bed and an EW bunk (but you would have to be more careful with leveling the van).

The lower twin is plenty large for two people to commune in the evening or morning, while having two beds gives a very good night's sleep without having to crawl over someone in the night to get to the bathroom. The other advantage with two beds is that I can travel with someone that I wouldn't want to share a bed with.

The couch with a view is one of my favorite things in the van. It is just a light aluminum frame and couple pieces of plywood hinged together with a 6" memory foam mattress that bends to form the couch back and seat. I built a mockup to get the seat depth, back height, seat angle and back angle correct for comfort. I also tested different plywood thicknesses to get the correct amount of springiness in the seat. I built a little footstool too. It's like sitting in an armchair.

Meals are served on a large "table" that is placed between us on the couch. And when I open up both sliders, the rear doors and the bulkhead hatch, I feel like I am sitting outside. The couch (along with the screens doors) makes the van a very comfortable cottage on wheels.

Cheers.

That is a nice setup you've got there. I agree that bunk beds have some good advantages - sleep quality for me is better if I don't share my bed with another person, but I am not sure where I would put the extra bed and the associated bedding and mattress. I'll need to give it some thought, but so far I have been trying to avoid solutions that require setting up/undoing before/after using. I know myself and I am lazy when it comes to doing things before bed or when I wake up...

Swivel seats aren't enough of a view position? They seem to work for us - with a nice view... when it's nice enough out. On the bench seat behind the driver, we're currently running the 31" against the wall and it works fine with the driver's seat swiveled. Had planned to use an alternate mount position with it facing forward, but not feeling the need for it at this point.



Here's a test position that showed it makes for a SMALL pass between the 31" seat at the galley.
View attachment 160950

This is the current mount position. The 36" would work great here. But I already gave away the 36" seat.
View attachment 160951

Here it is in the swivels and table position. Probably going to put an extension on the table because it's a bit far from the driver. Also have another Lagun that will be mounted on the other side - which can serve driver and passengers.
View attachment 160952

I know you've seen this photo before... but it sort of /barely/ works to have the driver's seat swiveled even with the shower this close. Compare this to the photo above and you can see that the corner of the driver's seat clears the corner of the shower. And, of course, you can build a different location than we have if that's the priority.
View attachment 160954

This is a great arrangement, I like it. I briefly thought about doing something like that so I could actually have more than one passenger, but am too anxious to add a seat myself since I expect this will be a nightmare if things go wrong. Also mixed feelings about losing the underneath storage space. But it does look like with a 31" you could use bot hthe driver swivel and the bench which is very nice to know.
Definitely saw the shower photo, it's what inspired me to try the 8020 route for mine
While we're on the topic of 8020 showers, how are you handling the ceiling in yours?
Part of what made me excited about moving the shower backwards is not having to deal with the foam blob and the big ceiling curve up in the front.

Maybe not the look you want... the melamine-coated MDF 1/4" worked great for the ceiling. Basically, a finished version of what you show above. There are also many other 1/4" finished options that could look pretty good and they're super easy to install. We used the rails for cabinet mounting; but two friends have done a similar install edge-to-edge and it looks CLEAN.

View attachment 160955

View attachment 160956

I am considering this look. It's not the most aesthetically pleasing in my opinion but it is clean and super practical, and maybe good enough. I like the rails, which variety is that? Any tips on attaching them through the ceiling wood panels?
I want to do a similar thing for my upper cabinets/shower. The more attachment points the better.
Been originally thinking L track because it can fit nice and flush with the ceiling panels like all those Adventure Wagon builds do. Seems more annoying to attach things to though compared to 8020, especially when everything else is 8020.
Btw, is the top rail 90 degrees to the side rail? If so, how did that black magic happen?


Thanks again everyone, this brainstorming is helpful. I am somewhat happy that no-one told me this is a horribly unergonomic layout, or that raising the top of the mattress to ~36-37" is unreasonable. Next step is to see how that feels because if it's a no go (getting in is too annoying or head clearance is insufficient) then I have to go back to the drawing board. Will probably need some ceiling there or a cardboard mock for a more realistic test.

Cheers!

 

[orton]

Understand your comments about the seat. Only made the statement to confirm that the seat was important enough to compromise other parts of your build.

I have found a shower door or curtain is not required. The trick is to not to use a spray head.that produced a lot of overspray. A full flow nozzle eliminates overspray. I use a radiator fill valve and just put a towel down in front of the shower. Very little water gets on the towel. Showering happens for a very short period of time so best to make use of the space for other purposes most of the time. My shower is not pleasant like a shower at home but works very well to get clean. More important to use the space most of the time for more useful purposes.

I do appreciate a refrigerator mounted high so you can see in it without getting down on your knees.

Expect to be at the van conversion meet in the East Bay in a couple of weeks. Maybe some of the things I have learned might be useful. My 80/20 shower enclosure is simpler that your picture. I used 8mm white Macrolux twin wall polycarbonate shower ceiling as well as for the ceiling in the rest of the van. Shower walls are painted plywood. Probably would have used Flexseal if I had seen that product before completing the shower.

 

[eranrund]

Understand your comments about the seat. Only made the statement to confirm that the seat was important enough to compromise other parts of your build.

I have found a shower door or curtain is not required. The trick is to not to use a spray head.that produced a lot of overspray. A full flow nozzle eliminates overspray. I use a radiator fill valve and just put a towel down in front of the shower. Very little water gets on the towel. Showering happens for a very short period of time so best to make use of the space for other purposes most of the time. My shower is not pleasant like a shower at home but works very well to get clean. More important to use the space most of the time for more useful purposes.

I do appreciate a refrigerator mounted high so you can see in it without getting down on your knees.

Expect to be at the van conversion meet in the East Bay in a couple of weeks. Maybe some of the things I have learned might be useful. My 80/20 shower enclosure is simpler that your picture. I used 8mm white Macrolux twin wall polycarbonate shower ceiling as well as for the ceiling in the rest of the van. Shower walls are painted plywood. Probably would have used Flexseal if I had seen that product before completing the shower.

I agree about the refrigerator being mounted on the floor is pretty sucky. And you're right the shower doesn't get used very frequently. I do like that it houses the bathroom. I am coming to the East Bay meetup as well, looking forward to seeing your build in person!! I hope that there will be others there with curtain-based shower solutions, I am curious if I can convince myself that this is a good enough solution. You're right that the shower is a huge waste of space most of the time, but I figured that's why I'm carrying so much van behind the rear wheels (the extended length has crazy overhang).

 

[gregoryx]

Had to wait until I could digest stuff to respond...

First off, with the bed height. Last trip we just took, we had bikes with us and didn't want to deal with the laying-flat thing since I was riding every day. Compressed the fork and lowest I could get the top of the bed clearance was 44" from the floor on the inside (garage is a bit different). That left 32" from mattress to ceiling. It was a little higher than I'd prefer and a little less head-room than I'd prefer; but it wasn't terrible either. Especially with the couch-back up, it was perfectly fine sitting up reading or watching a movie. I'd gladly do a month-long trip like that. A week was no problem. So 36" would be luxurious. FWIW, there are steps to get up there; otherwise, it would be a problem for the missus. (I'm 5'11" and she's 5'3" for reference.)


On the second row seat. I found that the 3-foot space for the side-mounted seat was pretty much identical to the space needed for the same seat to be forward-mounted comfortably. Which is where the 31" came into play for us - when or if we face it forward, no matter what seat, if the back of it is less than about 3' from the driver's seat area, it's not comfortable. We decided a narrow seat with good leg room - and a good fit to a table between - is more useful than a crammed-against-the-front-seat setup.

The minimum depth of the Ford 31" seat we're using (same for 36") is about 2' from the back of the seat to the front of the seat. Might want to get actual seat measurements (whatever seat you'll be using) and check that. The extra foot-plus seemed enough for leg room in our case. If you're going side-facing, no big deal, of course. And that goes nicely with the "people hanging out" part of it. A lower bed with a nice way to sit up adds to that as well.

And, yes, seat plus driver swivel works fine. Might even work with 36". And we use the storage under the seat - as well as on top and above it (with hooks). If I re-did the seats, I'd make them about an inch taller so I could fit 21-gallon bins under it.

The seat thing... I can't recommend what we did because there is no such thing as safe enough for someone else's situation. But I can tell you there are challenges in how seats will mount and who (and/or how) will help you do them to your satisfaction. I'm satisfied with what we did; but I'm not consulting NHTSA on it. 🤔

And, of course, our shower swaps with our second seat to address this very space challenge. I could probably reconfigure to cram it all in there but I'd rather it be more comfortable; and traveling with four /without/ a shower seems an acceptable trade-off. We'll be sleeping in a queen-bunk-bed setup and going potty outdoors... no shower is the least of the concerns. 😏


I appreciate your space concern for the aisle space. 16" is SO narrow. The feel is terrible. Our layout looked "maybe" on initial sketches and computer designs - we were at 20" or so in the aisle. We used 1x2 wood and went to the trouble to cut and screw it all together - including building around the bumps in the walls and all - to get a real feel. Once we built wood and cardboard mock-ups, we went back to figuring out how to make it much larger.

We really squeezed the galley as small as possible - rearranged the water tanks and moved things around - to get it to 21" deep (less than 22" from the wall at top). We tucked the fridge as far back as possible on the other side - getting it to 22" out from the wall at the deepest - and less than that below it. We currently have ~24" at counter-height and ~27" at the floor. It's enough to feel good - and squeeze by each other.

It seems like the fridge is going to be a tough challenge. I assume it's about 2' x 2' or so? Based on what we found, we're doing the 24" on one side and 21" on the other. Assuming the shower is 24", I think that's the side for the fridge. Or under the bed - which I don't like as much since I like to keep the option of pass-through into the garage. (You do you, as always.)

I'm not following you on the galley overlapping the door, though. We're overlapping by 24" and it leaves 27" available. Is that seeming too narrow? Or are you overlapping more than that?


I don't think the swivels should be a maybe-yes-no in a rig this size - they effectively increase the space by a few feet by repurposing the front seats when parked. Combine that with a table that overlaps the doorway and you're pretty optimized.


On the ceiling, I'm not suggesting doing what we did - I know it's not the look most people want - but that there are sheets that look like whatever you want them to look like - wood or slats or whatever - and they're easy to do on the ceiling.

The rails on ours are 3030. And we're using the side slots for holding the ceiling in place. Having L-track on our garage slider, I will not use it again. T-Track / 8020 is better. If I were to re-do the slider base, I'll dump the L-track and go with half-height T-track. L-Track actually sucks.

Top rails are not 90-degree. But that isn't a problem with the way we're mounting the cabinets. Just using angle mounts that are slightly off - only mounted on the side. Worked out way better than I expected. You can see them in the vertical mounts here. The top of those verticals are not perfectly straight. The 90s that attach them are just on a slight angle. Bottoms are square, of course.

What'd I forget? Oh... shower... still not sure what the top will be. Either corrugated polycarbonate (as the walls are about to become) or nothing. Not sure. 🤔


Did I miss anything else?


Wish I were joining you guys in a couple weeks. Should be fun!

 

[eranrund]

Had to wait until I could digest stuff to respond...

First off, with the bed height. Last trip we just took, we had bikes with us and didn't want to deal with the laying-flat thing since I was riding every day. Compressed the fork and lowest I could get the top of the bed clearance was 44" from the floor on the inside (garage is a bit different). That left 32" from mattress to ceiling. It was a little higher than I'd prefer and a little less head-room than I'd prefer; but it wasn't terrible either. Especially with the couch-back up, it was perfectly fine sitting up reading or watching a movie. I'd gladly do a month-long trip like that. A week was no problem. So 36" would be luxurious. FWIW, there are steps to get up there; otherwise, it would be a problem for the missus. (I'm 5'11" and she's 5'3" for reference.)


On the second row seat. I found that the 3-foot space for the side-mounted seat was pretty much identical to the space needed for the same seat to be forward-mounted comfortably. Which is where the 31" came into play for us - when or if we face it forward, no matter what seat, if the back of it is less than about 3' from the driver's seat area, it's not comfortable. We decided a narrow seat with good leg room - and a good fit to a table between - is more useful than a crammed-against-the-front-seat setup.

The minimum depth of the Ford 31" seat we're using (same for 36") is about 2' from the back of the seat to the front of the seat. Might want to get actual seat measurements (whatever seat you'll be using) and check that. The extra foot-plus seemed enough for leg room in our case. If you're going side-facing, no big deal, of course. And that goes nicely with the "people hanging out" part of it. A lower bed with a nice way to sit up adds to that as well.

And, yes, seat plus driver swivel works fine. Might even work with 36". And we use the storage under the seat - as well as on top and above it (with hooks). If I re-did the seats, I'd make them about an inch taller so I could fit 21-gallon bins under it.

The seat thing... I can't recommend what we did because there is no such thing as safe enough for someone else's situation. But I can tell you there are challenges in how seats will mount and who (and/or how) will help you do them to your satisfaction. I'm satisfied with what we did; but I'm not consulting NHTSA on it. 🤔

And, of course, our shower swaps with our second seat to address this very space challenge. I could probably reconfigure to cram it all in there but I'd rather it be more comfortable; and traveling with four /without/ a shower seems an acceptable trade-off. We'll be sleeping in a queen-bunk-bed setup and going potty outdoors... no shower is the least of the concerns. 😏


I appreciate your space concern for the aisle space. 16" is SO narrow. The feel is terrible. Our layout looked "maybe" on initial sketches and computer designs - we were at 20" or so in the aisle. We used 1x2 wood and went to the trouble to cut and screw it all together - including building around the bumps in the walls and all - to get a real feel. Once we built wood and cardboard mock-ups, we went back to figuring out how to make it much larger.

We really squeezed the galley as small as possible - rearranged the water tanks and moved things around - to get it to 21" deep (less than 22" from the wall at top). We tucked the fridge as far back as possible on the other side - getting it to 22" out from the wall at the deepest - and less than that below it. We currently have ~24" at counter-height and ~27" at the floor. It's enough to feel good - and squeeze by each other.

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It seems like the fridge is going to be a tough challenge. I assume it's about 2' x 2' or so? Based on what we found, we're doing the 24" on one side and 21" on the other. Assuming the shower is 24", I think that's the side for the fridge. Or under the bed - which I don't like as much since I like to keep the option of pass-through into the garage. (You do you, as always.)

I'm not following you on the galley overlapping the door, though. We're overlapping by 24" and it leaves 27" available. Is that seeming too narrow? Or are you overlapping more than that?


I don't think the swivels should be a maybe-yes-no in a rig this size - they effectively increase the space by a few feet by repurposing the front seats when parked. Combine that with a table that overlaps the doorway and you're pretty optimized.


On the ceiling, I'm not suggesting doing what we did - I know it's not the look most people want - but that there are sheets that look like whatever you want them to look like - wood or slats or whatever - and they're easy to do on the ceiling.

The rails on ours are 3030. And we're using the side slots for holding the ceiling in place. Having L-track on our garage slider, I will not use it again. T-Track / 8020 is better. If I were to re-do the slider base, I'll dump the L-track and go with half-height T-track. L-Track actually sucks.

Top rails are not 90-degree. But that isn't a problem with the way we're mounting the cabinets. Just using angle mounts that are slightly off - only mounted on the side. Worked out way better than I expected. You can see them in the vertical mounts here. The top of those verticals are not perfectly straight. The 90s that attach them are just on a slight angle. Bottoms are square, of course.
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What'd I forget? Oh... shower... still not sure what the top will be. Either corrugated polycarbonate (as the walls are about to become) or nothing. Not sure. 🤔


Did I miss anything else?


Wish I were joining you guys in a couple weeks. Should be fun!

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response!! Much appreciated!

Last night I mocked my bed at the planned height and can confirm that 36" is perfectly fine, and at 5'7" I can easily get in and out and sit in it. Thank you for providing another data point on this, I am now much more comfortable with this option.

Good information regarding the seat. My original plan is a custom made seat with a big drawer underneath. Although the idea of using a Ford (or similar seat) and fitting a yellow top bin underneath is also pretty appealing, combined with maybe the option to have it face forward with the appropriate disclaimers to the potential passengers
If I feel inspired over the weekend I will investigate a bit under the van to see what awaits me if I go with that route.

Whats the process of removing your shower? Is it short enough that you can tilt it and then take it through the slider door?

I haven't finished my mocking up yet, but 20" of isle seems like the minimum for me and more would be nicer, but it's a tradeoff with the countertop size and drawer depth. The sink/faucet also play a role in this, don't want too small of a sink. When camped for a few days at the same spot having a big countertop is a huge blessing - especially when traveling with another person. Not having to be obsessive about putting things back immediately is pretty nice.

The fridge is is ~23" wide x ~30" tall x ~22" deep. A pretty big item. What I meant when I mentioned overlapping is that if the fridge and the shower are opposite to each-other and are not offested, the fridge door will hit the shower because the isle is less than the width of the fridge door. There's also the problem of how to get the fridge out for service, since if its 22" deep it means the isle needs to be at least 22" as well. But the shower is ~25.5" and not flush with the wall, and at the widest point (close to the floor) the van is only 68" (wall-to-wall, so usable width is less than that). At least if I put the fridge under the bed and plan carefully what goes behind it I could maybe have easy access to remove it from the rear doors.

I tend to agree with what you're saying about double swivels. The passenger side one has been a lot of fun to use and that's even before the Lagun table that I will add at some point.

For ceiling I want to go look at some prefinished maple plywood if it is available locally. I think that would look acceptable. On the topic of 8020 rails, it looks like you slid your plywood into the side slots of the extrusion? If so, any tips on doing that? Or is this the version without slots on two sides?
After reading what you said about L-track, I'm gonna pass on it. Haven't heard anyone say anything amazing about it yet, and the fasteners are proprietary and awkward.
So, 8020 it is probably. I went ahead and looked at the 1575 series but the supplier I buy my 1515 from does not have it stocked. They only deal with 145" pieces and he said shipping those for me would be $400-$500. Too expensive. I can order ~90-100" pieces online so thats an option. I need to measure what length I actually need, and if the van curvature allows for a single long piece.
Would love any more details about how you attached yours, whether you used a single continuous long piece, and how it plays with mounting the ceiling panels.
Always nice to hear about something that worked out better than expected in this project. Seems to be a rare occurrence

I can't think of anything you missed! Thanks again for helping me brainstorm solutions!!