[timreg2]

Has anyone used a sort of hot water accumulator, like using a Bosch water heater to hold the hot water for a few hours so you do not have to run the system every time you want hot water?

If you're using their ComfortHot tanks (2 & 4.5 gal.), those act as an "accumulator" for the hot glycol. And as long as they are close to the point of use (galley sink?) you should get hot water quickly without the hydronic heater having to fire on.

Exactly how much hot water can be delivered before firing the heater will depend on many factors like van temp, distance, tank insulation (if it can be), etc.

I'm kind of speculating here as I haven't installed my system yet. But I think it makes sense to view the hot glycol the same as you would the hot water in a traditional system. How far the holding tank is from your point of use determines the speed of getting hot water.

Having said that, the Bosch tanks (and many others) are well insulated and can hold hot water a long time. The ComfortHot is not insulated. And if it can't be for some reason then the glycol won't stay hot for nearly as long as a hot water tank.

If you add a hot water tank inline, after the ComfortHot, and that tank cools down, the Rixens system has no way to refill the tank with hot water without flushing out all the cold water. And if you use the heating element in the Bosch tank, I'd question the value you'd get from the Rixens system.

There are ways to plumb in a recirculating system that allows cold water to be replaced with hot water without wasting any water. But the bigger your hot water tank, the more water you have to recirculate.

 

[brío]

Has anyone used a sort of hot water accumulator, like using a Bosch water heater to hold the hot water for a few hours so you do not have to run the system every time you want hot water?

The glycol tank does this to a certain extent. A bigger one (or a second one) would be even better. The issue with buffering the hot water itself is that (absent some complex system) you would give up the very fine instant hot water feature, since you would have to heat up a cold buffer tank before you could take your shower.

 

[nealcallan]

Has anyone used a sort of hot water accumulator, like using a Bosch water heater to hold the hot water for a few hours so you do not have to run the system every time you want hot water?

It does not take much time for the water to get hot - about 5 minutes. But there are options to integrate a water tank into the system; here is a video of an upfitter called Van Land that have an undercarriage tank heater with engine loop. Not sure of the price though.

 

[CincyBearcats]

Cincy, I really do hope you get your van! I recall seeing your name/posts here when I first joined, so it's hard to believe you don't have one yet. I guess back in 2020 you got caught up in the PSD fiasco; can't recall for sure. In any event, best wishes with the future!

We FINALLY have a van and are working on the installation of our Rixen's system. Once again, huge thanks to both of you (@NealCarney and @nealcallan) for all of the great information that you have provided here on the forum.

it was many iterations and waaay to much time lying under the van in staring mode trying to make all the pieces work

This is so true now that we actually have a van in the driveway. Our neighbor recently commented to me that our driveway looked like the scene of a van landing on the Wicked Witch of the West. Ha!

I'm looking to copy the locations that both of you used for the furnace and glycol hose routing.

1. furnace bracket - I'm thinking about using Send Cut Send to fabricate a bracket to interface between the Espar bracket and the van metal. Do either of you have additional photos of your interface bracket? I assume that you used rivet nuts in the van metal to attach the bracket to the van, but how did you attach the Espar bracket to the interface bracket without interference of fasteners?
2. glycol hose routing - The hose routing that you used through the floor of the wall cavities is ingenious. On the interior of the van, it looks like there is plenty of room for a drill and a hole saw. Underneath the van, however, I'm struggling to see how you managed to drill holes there. The forward mount for the leaf spring seems to interfere with any chance of accessing that location with a hole saw on a drill. How did you manage to drill both of those holes? What size hole did you drill? Did you align the internal and external holes vertically with each other (i.e. vertical hole in wall cavity is directly above the horizontal hole under the van)?

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

 

[NealCarney]

We FINALLY have a van and are working on the installation of our Rixen's system. Once again, huge thanks to both of you (@NealCarney and @nealcallan) for all of the great information that you have provided here on the forum.


This is so true now that we actually have a van in the driveway. Our neighbor recently commented to me that our driveway looked like the scene of a van landing on the Wicked Witch of the West. Ha!

I'm looking to copy the locations that both of you used for the furnace and glycol hose routing.

1. furnace bracket - I'm thinking about using Send Cut Send to fabricate a bracket to interface between the Espar bracket and the van metal. Do either of you have additional photos of your interface bracket? I assume that you used rivet nuts in the van metal to attach the bracket to the van, but how did you attach the Espar bracket to the interface bracket without interference of fasteners?
2. glycol hose routing - The hose routing that you used through the floor of the wall cavities is ingenious. On the interior of the van, it looks like there is plenty of room for a drill and a hole saw. Underneath the van, however, I'm struggling to see how you managed to drill holes there. The forward mount for the leaf spring seems to interfere with any chance of accessing that location with a hole saw on a drill. How did you manage to drill both of those holes? What size hole did you drill? Did you align the internal and external holes vertically with each other (i.e. vertical hole in wall cavity is directly above the horizontal hole under the van)?

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

@CincyBearcats , I am SO happy you finally received your van after waiting so long. You truly have the patience of Job!

Below are four pictures of the intermediate bracket I used. I don’t believe @nealcallan used an intermediate bracket but I’m sure he will reply once he sees your post. Normally, I would have installed four rivnuts in the frame and not needed an intermediate bracket, but I couldn’t get it positioned the way I wanted. I don’t recall the specifics, but I guess it was due to my desired vertical mount position.

• The first picture shows most of the hardware components and countsink machining for the flathead bolts. I think the only items not shown are three rivnuts, lockwashers, and two locknuts for the lower flathead bolts. It also shows the extra hole in the middle area of the Espar bracket that I had to drill (described below).
• The second picture shows what the side of the intermediate bracket that faces the van frame looks like with bolts attached. As you can see, the countersink side of the intermediate bracket faces the frame.
• The third picture shows the pre-installation of intermediate and Espar bracket. You first insert the middle round head bolt into the intermediate bracket since you can’t do it later. This will eventually go into a rivnut in the frame. A small access hole is drilled into the Espar bracket simply so that you can tighten it with a hex wrench later. Next the two lower flathead bolts must be attached with locknuts prior to installation on the frame, since there isn’t enough room to tighten them later.
• The fourth picture shows the bracket assembly mounted to the van. Of course the three rivnuts have to be installed first. Next you mount and tighten the pre-installed middle bolt using a hex key through the access hole as described above. And last the two upper bolts are able to go through both the intermediate and Espar brackets and into the rivnuts in the frame.

Concerning the glycol hoses, I’ve attached a couple of pictures that hopefully you can correlate to your van.

• I don’t recall the leaf spring interfering, but it’s possible I used a right angle drill.
• Indeed, I don’t believe the lower holes line up vertically with the upper holes. Perhaps it was partially due to leaf spring interference, but I think more importantly the bend radius would be too tight and you might need to use an elbow. By having the lower holes offset to the left, there is enough room to bend the hose 90 degrees up without kinking.
• According to my records, I used both a 1-3/8” grommet and 1-1/2” grommet for the installation. The ID of the 1-3/8 is 1”, which matches the Gates hose OD and gives a nice tight seal. I believe I used those for the upper holes in the wall cavity. I used the 1-1/2” on the lower holes since the hose went in at somewhat of an angle and therefore required a little extra room.

 

[KRK]

@CincyBearcats , I am SO happy you finally received your van after waiting so long. You truly have the patience of Job!

Below are four pictures of the intermediate bracket I used. I don’t believe @nealcallan used an intermediate bracket but I’m sure he will reply once he sees your post. Normally, I would have installed four rivnuts in the frame and not needed an intermediate bracket, but I couldn’t get it positioned the way I wanted. I don’t recall the specifics, but I guess it was due to my desired vertical mount position.

• The first picture shows most of the hardware components and countsink machining for the flathead bolts. I think the only items not shown are three rivnuts, lockwashers, and two locknuts for the lower flathead bolts. It also shows the extra hole in the middle area of the Espar bracket that I had to drill (described below).
• The second picture shows what the side of the intermediate bracket that faces the van frame looks like with bolts attached. As you can see, the countersink side of the intermediate bracket faces the frame.
• The third picture shows the pre-installation of intermediate and Espar bracket. You first insert the middle round head bolt into the intermediate bracket since you can’t do it later. This will eventually go into a rivnut in the frame. A small access hole is drilled into the Espar bracket simply so that you can tighten it with a hex wrench later. Next the two lower flathead bolts must be attached with locknuts prior to installation on the frame, since there isn’t enough room to tighten them later.
• The fourth picture shows the bracket assembly mounted to the van. Of course the three rivnuts have to be installed first. Next you mount and tighten the pre-installed middle bolt using a hex key through the access hole as described above. And last the two upper bolts are able to go through both the intermediate and Espar brackets and into the rivnuts in the frame.

Concerning the glycol hoses, I’ve attached a couple of pictures that hopefully you can correlate to your van.

• I don’t recall the leaf spring interfering, but it’s possible I used a right angle drill.
• Indeed, I don’t believe the lower holes line up vertically with the upper holes. Perhaps it was partially due to leaf spring interference, but I think more importantly the bend radius would be too tight and you might need to use an elbow. By having the lower holes offset to the left, there is enough room to bend the hose 90 degrees up without kinking.
• According to my records, I used both a 1-3/8” grommet and 1-1/2” grommet for the installation. The ID of the 1-3/8 is 1”, which matches the Gates hose OD and gives a nice tight seal. I believe I used those for the upper holes in the wall cavity. I used the 1-1/2” on the lower holes since the hose went in at somewhat of an angle and therefore required a little extra room.

View attachment 214304

View attachment 214305

View attachment 214306

View attachment 214307

View attachment 214308

View attachment 214309

@NealCarney how did you deal with the metal shavings from drilling in the cavity in the side of the wall? It looks like the metal gets pinched towards the bottom, thus possibly making it difficult to vacuum them out...

 

[nealcallan]

We FINALLY have a van and are working on the installation of our Rixen's system. Once again, huge thanks to both of you (@NealCarney and @nealcallan) for all of the great information that you have provided here on the forum.


This is so true now that we actually have a van in the driveway. Our neighbor recently commented to me that our driveway looked like the scene of a van landing on the Wicked Witch of the West. Ha!

I'm looking to copy the locations that both of you used for the furnace and glycol hose routing.

1. furnace bracket - I'm thinking about using Send Cut Send to fabricate a bracket to interface between the Espar bracket and the van metal. Do either of you have additional photos of your interface bracket? I assume that you used rivet nuts in the van metal to attach the bracket to the van, but how did you attach the Espar bracket to the interface bracket without interference of fasteners?
2. glycol hose routing - The hose routing that you used through the floor of the wall cavities is ingenious. On the interior of the van, it looks like there is plenty of room for a drill and a hole saw. Underneath the van, however, I'm struggling to see how you managed to drill holes there. The forward mount for the leaf spring seems to interfere with any chance of accessing that location with a hole saw on a drill. How did you manage to drill both of those holes? What size hole did you drill? Did you align the internal and external holes vertically with each other (i.e. vertical hole in wall cavity is directly above the horizontal hole under the van)?

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

@CincyBearcats , I am SO happy you finally received your van after waiting so long. You truly have the patience of Job!

Below are four pictures of the intermediate bracket I used. I don’t believe @nealcallan used an intermediate bracket but I’m sure he will reply once he sees your post. Normally, I would have installed four rivnuts in the frame and not needed an intermediate bracket, but I couldn’t get it positioned the way I wanted. I don’t recall the specifics, but I guess it was due to my desired vertical mount position.

• The first picture shows most of the hardware components and countsink machining for the flathead bolts. I think the only items not shown are three rivnuts, lockwashers, and two locknuts for the lower flathead bolts. It also shows the extra hole in the middle area of the Espar bracket that I had to drill (described below).
• The second picture shows what the side of the intermediate bracket that faces the van frame looks like with bolts attached. As you can see, the countersink side of the intermediate bracket faces the frame.
• The third picture shows the pre-installation of intermediate and Espar bracket. You first insert the middle round head bolt into the intermediate bracket since you can’t do it later. This will eventually go into a rivnut in the frame. A small access hole is drilled into the Espar bracket simply so that you can tighten it with a hex wrench later. Next the two lower flathead bolts must be attached with locknuts prior to installation on the frame, since there isn’t enough room to tighten them later.
• The fourth picture shows the bracket assembly mounted to the van. Of course the three rivnuts have to be installed first. Next you mount and tighten the pre-installed middle bolt using a hex key through the access hole as described above. And last the two upper bolts are able to go through both the intermediate and Espar brackets and into the rivnuts in the frame.

Concerning the glycol hoses, I’ve attached a couple of pictures that hopefully you can correlate to your van.

• I don’t recall the leaf spring interfering, but it’s possible I used a right angle drill.
• Indeed, I don’t believe the lower holes line up vertically with the upper holes. Perhaps it was partially due to leaf spring interference, but I think more importantly the bend radius would be too tight and you might need to use an elbow. By having the lower holes offset to the left, there is enough room to bend the hose 90 degrees up without kinking.
• According to my records, I used both a 1-3/8” grommet and 1-1/2” grommet for the installation. The ID of the 1-3/8 is 1”, which matches the Gates hose OD and gives a nice tight seal. I believe I used those for the upper holes in the wall cavity. I used the 1-1/2” on the lower holes since the hose went in at somewhat of an angle and therefore required a little extra room.

View attachment 214304

View attachment 214305

View attachment 214306

View attachment 214307

View attachment 214308

View attachment 214309

We FINALLY have a van and are working on the installation of our Rixen's system. Once again, huge thanks to both of you (@NealCarney and @nealcallan) for all of the great information that you have provided here on the forum.


This is so true now that we actually have a van in the driveway. Our neighbor recently commented to me that our driveway looked like the scene of a van landing on the Wicked Witch of the West. Ha!

I'm looking to copy the locations that both of you used for the furnace and glycol hose routing.

1. furnace bracket - I'm thinking about using Send Cut Send to fabricate a bracket to interface between the Espar bracket and the van metal. Do either of you have additional photos of your interface bracket? I assume that you used rivet nuts in the van metal to attach the bracket to the van, but how did you attach the Espar bracket to the interface bracket without interference of fasteners?
2. glycol hose routing - The hose routing that you used through the floor of the wall cavities is ingenious. On the interior of the van, it looks like there is plenty of room for a drill and a hole saw. Underneath the van, however, I'm struggling to see how you managed to drill holes there. The forward mount for the leaf spring seems to interfere with any chance of accessing that location with a hole saw on a drill. How did you manage to drill both of those holes? What size hole did you drill? Did you align the internal and external holes vertically with each other (i.e. vertical hole in wall cavity is directly above the horizontal hole under the van)?

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

@CincyBearcats - great to have the van and the project starts -very exciting. Let me try to answer the questions and follow up ON @NealCarney input.

1. Furnace bracket - As Neal mentioned I did not use a bracket to mount the furnace, this does create a challenge as the bottom of the Rixen supplied mounting plate will extend below the bottom of the Transit mounting location, you can see in the picture below. To secure the bottom of the rixen plate you'll need to use a a 3rd party bracket of build something. I used a small block of 1/4" aluminum and secured it to a 90 deg bracket. I tried to find a picture - see below. The install has been in 3.5 years and has held up very well. I did use 1/4x20 rivnuts, and the anchor bolts are alloy steel from McMaster-Carr, as first I bought some from 80/20 site but they did not handle wet conditions as well .
   1. 
      
2. Glycol hose routing - yup used a right angle drill, just take your time. Can't recall the hole size but Neal's sizes will work well. Make sure each drilled holes is treated with paint or primer (I used self etching primer), a rubber grommet to protect the hose in addition I sealed the lower penetrations with red rtv silicone. After drilling all the hoses I taped a 1" nylon hose to the end of a shop vac and tried to vacuum any metal debris that fell inside the body cavity. The lower 2 penetrations are the input/output to the furnace the top penetrations glycol runs to a shower on the driver side of the van. On the top runs I insulated the hoses with pipe insulation to prevent heat loss, in addition protected with heat wrap as they route over the top of the radiator. I would also put some pipe insulation on the lower hoses to protect them from rock strikes. We just returned from a 2 month epic trip to the arctic ocean and Alaska with over 1000 miles on dirt road that I think looseened a couple of cavities. The air intake hose was damaged in a rock strike, the glycol hoses came through fine but I will add some pipe insulation to them just to be safe..
   1. 
      

Good luck with the build and post some pictures - love to the the progress.

 

[NealCarney]

@NealCarney how did you deal with the metal shavings from drilling in the cavity in the side of the wall? It looks like the metal gets pinched towards the bottom, thus possibly making it difficult to vacuum them out...

It's been a while, but from what I remember I used a telescoping magnet pickup tool and tried to pickup the shavings as best I could.

On the top runs I insulated the hoses with pipe insulation to prevent heat loss, in addition protected with heat wrap as they route over the top of the radiator. I would also put some pipe insulation on the lower hoses to protect them from rock strikes.

@nealcallan makes an excellent point on pipe insulation. I used pipe insulation on the interior runs from the get-go. I did a later post in this thread, in which described how I eventually wrapped all my exterior glycol lines and used them to heat my grey water tank. As @nealcallan noted, there are several benefits including heat loss prevention and road debris protection. Additionally, the glycol lines get quite hot and you don't want them to inadvertently directly touch things under the chassis like the Espar fuel line, etc.

 

[CincyBearcats]

Thank you SO much, Neal and Neal!!! I just ordered a 90º drill and some 5/8" and 3/4" silicone hose. I hope to get started on this in the next week or so. Your photos and insights are EXTREMELY helpful!!!

 

[dhagberg]

Not sure if it helps, but I have a few photos of my mount - on the driver's side, next bay forward from the one ahead of the leaf spring:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8mFeteo5cAr3nKmw7

1/4" stainless plate with holes threaded to be able to mount the Espar bracket in 4 places with M6 button head's. The plate is mounted to the sheet metal with 3 x M8 rivnuts (maybe one of those was an existing hole? Sorry, don't have "before" pictures of the rivnuts).

 

[CincyBearcats]

Not sure if it helps, but I have a few photos of my mount - on the driver's side, next bay forward from the one ahead of the leaf spring:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8mFeteo5cAr3nKmw7

Thanks for the photos! It's really useful to see others' solutions. I need to work on my creativity skills. Ha! I hadn't considered that particular bay. I'll take a look.

 

[sprocketvan]

We have the extended length T-350 and mounted the furnace behind the rear wheel and then routed the glycol lines through an opening near the rear bumper that has a rectangular rubber plug from the factory so that we didn't have to drill any holes. It makes the glycol loop a little longer but that has not caused any issues with heat loss.

 

[CincyBearcats]

We have the extended length T-350 and mounted the furnace behind the rear wheel and then routed the glycol lines through an opening near the rear bumper that has a rectangular rubber plug from the factory so that we didn't have to drill any holes. It makes the glycol loop a little longer but that has not caused any issues with heat loss.

I looked at that location but initially ruled it out because I was worried about the furnace getting blasted by road salt and sand during the winter. Also, it seems to be a bit more exposed to rock strikes because the underbody is not as deep behind the wheel as it is in front of the wheel. Have you had any issues with this? Would you care to share some photos? Thanks!!!

 

[mototreks]

As another option, I'm installing my furnace horizontally and using bulkhead fittings to go thought the floor.

This is on the driver side. The furnace is well protected but the exhaust and intake are a bit exposed. I may need to see about adding some sort of protecting to prevent them from being damaged.

Underneath side of the van.

Top side just before the rear wheels. This will be the location of the remaining Rixens system bits once I'm finished.

 

[sprocketvan]

I looked at that location but initially ruled it out because I was worried about the furnace getting blasted by road salt and sand during the winter. Also, it seems to be a bit more exposed to rock strikes because the underbody is not as deep behind the wheel as it is in front of the wheel. Have you had any issues with this? Would you care to share some photos? Thanks!!!

I have been keeping an eye on it and so far have not had any issues. I did add an aluminum plate in front of the furnace to help protect it from rocks when I put on the new all terrain tires and will be adding some mud flaps soon.

 

[CincyBearcats]

The system has been installed for about three months and no leaks yet; I monitor regularly since things can change. I did exclusively use constant tension clamps (no worm drive clamps) including on the air handler; no issues. By the way, I forgot to mention in my post that having one of the flexible hose clamp pliers shown in the pic below is really a must for the constant tension clamps. Makes your life much easier since you are working in confined spaces.

Hi @NealCarney - If I was to redo the project I'd go with constant tension clamp. I was unfamiliar with these types of system and just went with hose clamps out of convenience. Overall only just the one small leak and I do a check after each trip. Those hose clamp pliers are very cool, have not seen those before.

As I (slowly) plod along with this project, I really appreciate all the advice that you two (and others) have offered here. I plan to heed your warnings about hose clamps and use only the constant tension ones. I ordered the tool that you recommended above, so thanks for that! The few constant tension clamps that came with our Rixen's system are very stout but only fit 3/4" hoses. I have now ordered three different types of constant tension clamps from Amazon to fit the 5/8" hoses, and all three variants have been very weak compared to the Rixen's ones. Would you happen to have a link to the source for your constant tension hose clamps that fit the 5/8" hoses? Thanks!!!

 

[CincyBearcats]

using bulkhead fittings to go through the floor

Thanks! I really like that solution. Would you happen to have links to the bulkhead fittings and spring clamps that you used?

 

[NealCarney]

As I (slowly) plod along with this project, I really appreciate all the advice that you two (and others) have offered here. I plan to heed your warnings about hose clamps and use only the constant tension ones. I ordered the tool that you recommended above, so thanks for that! The few constant tension clamps that came with our Rixen's system are very stout but only fit 3/4" hoses. I have now ordered three different types of constant tension clamps from Amazon to fit the 5/8" hoses, and all three variants have been very weak compared to the Rixen's ones. Would you happen to have a link to the source for your constant tension hose clamps that fit the 5/8" hoses? Thanks!!!

According to my order history I used these clamps from Amazon for 5/8" hose and later on these clamps from McMaster for 3/4" hose to supplement Rixen's. Both were very stout and similar to Rixen-supplied clamps. It looks like McMaster sells that same clamp in multiple diameters so guessing one of them would fit 5/8" also.

 

[mototreks]

Thanks! I really like that solution. Would you happen to have links to the bulkhead fittings and spring clamps that you used?

I went to a location hydraulic and industrial hose shop (House of hose) and asked them for a bulkhead fitting for the heater hose (I had a sample to show them). It started out looking something like this but then I went back and asked for a 90º elbow that I used on the underside.

 

[Bajabound]

I went to a location hydraulic and industrial hose shop (House of hose) and asked them for a bulkhead fitting for the heater hose (I had a sample to show them). It started out looking something like this but then I went back and asked for a 90º elbow that I used on the underside.

My "bulkhead fitting for the heater hose" was multi part & much more conveluted. I wish I had found one like the one you found.