[surly Bill]

Rear brake pad/rotor replacement, with extra crappy music:

 

[Eiko]

Or should I wait until the brake wear light comes on? The dealer did an inspection when I took my van in for the driveshaft warranty replacement, and said I had 1mm left on the rear pads, 6mm on the front.

We have a brake wear light? If so, it should have come on with 1mm pad left.

Either we don't have a brake wear light or your dealer is acting like a dealer. Replace now and confirm your dealer was lying. Just in case he's telling the truth.

Rear brake pad/rotor replacement, with extra crappy music:

Does look straightforward. The joy of working on a fairly new, non midwest salt marinated vehicle without rust seized parts.

 

[The Grand Tour]

To paraphrase Ruskin, there is nothing in life that cannot be done a little worse for a little less money.

Shopping for the absolute cheapest price, pretty much assures you of the absolute worst job. It's simple economics. The factory-trained technicians at the dealership get paid more, because they're worth more. And that naturally results in a higher flat-rate hourly charge, than some backyard hack or muffler-shop booger-eater.

When shopping for safety items like brakes, I'm shopping for the best brakes money can buy.

And while I'm on public roads, I'm praying that I don't encounter the guy with the absolute cheapest brakes money can buy.

 

[surly Bill]

To paraphrase Ruskin, there is nothing in life that cannot be done a little worse for a little less money.

Shopping for the absolute cheapest price, pretty much assures you of the absolute worst job. It's simple economics. The factory-trained technicians at the dealership get paid more, because they're worth more. And that naturally results in a higher flat-rate hourly charge, than some backyard hack or muffler-shop booger-eater.

When shopping for safety items like brakes, I'm shopping for the best brakes money can buy.

And while I'm on public roads, I'm praying that I don't encounter the guy with the absolute cheapest brakes money can buy.

LOL!

Seriously, where in the world did you ever get the idea in your head that a dealership shop is the best place to get your car worked on? "Free" warranty stuff is one thing, but ordinary maintenance and repairs at top dollar by barely competent techs who could care less if they do it right because their service manager could also care less; they'll just bill you for fixing their own mistakes. After breaking my fuel door, they wanted to charge me $300 to fix it. I was able to show them that it was freshly broken because I haven't washed my van for a few months and the dirt was rubbed off where they snagged it and scraped the body with the broken door. They also wanted to charge me to reprogram my key and keypad they erased when they reset the TPMS. No thanks, I used the owner's manual instructions and reprogrammed both in less than 2 minutes (it took my 2 tries).

And yeah, I'll look to see if there actually is "less than 1mm of pad left". I have my doubts. I think they tried a scare tactic they use on less mechanically inclined people as a way to try to empty my wallet of $850. As for cheap brakes; the ones I bought have better reviews than the OEM pads and rotors. If I were you and worried about safety, I'd tear the OEM pads and rotors off my van ASAP and replace them with aftermarket ones. I drive like an old man, and the pads are worn out at 45K? Those are some crappy pads! They lasted more than twice as long on my Sprinter.

Really, if you value your life and those of your passengers, get the OEM brakes off your van as soon as possible. Read all the complaints on this forum about the brakes.

 

[surly Bill]

Eiko; I don't know for sure that Transits have brake wear light, I just assumed that all vehicles do these days. I'll check the manual and see. I'm not getting any funny metal on metal sounds, and it feels like it's braking fine. I may discover they were lying (as usual). Regardless, I'll have to replace them sooner or later, and now I have superior replacements. But reading other posts about brakes, I wouldn't be surprised if the rears were worn out at 45k. Some people, who must drive like madmen, reported needing replacements at only 20-30k.

Also, I don't know if you're supposed to replace the pads and rotors as a set like was done on my T1N Sprinter, but it doesn't hurt to put on new rotors, especially if they are an upgrade to drilled and slotted ones.

 

[Eiko]

The factory-trained technicians at the dealership get paid more, because they're worth more. And that naturally results in a higher flat-rate hourly charge, than some backyard hack or muffler-shop booger-eater.

Those statements are why you have to pay the $900 curriculum fee.

You pay the dealership more. The owner gets more. The techs don't get more.

Many dealer service depts have high turnover due to low pay, high stress. So they often have the newest grads. The best techs leave as soon as they can. To better jobs at independent stores or to start their own shops.

@alarmist and @surly Bill may sound nihilistic but I think their attitude regarding dealer service depts is right more often than not.

 

[surly Bill]

Spurned lover syndrome. Once betrayed by someone you thought you could trust, your vehemence is amplified. I cannot abide being lied to by the greedy.

 

[alarmist]

To paraphrase Ruskin, there is nothing in life that cannot be done a little worse for a little less money.

Shopping for the absolute cheapest price, pretty much assures you of the absolute worst job. It's simple economics. The factory-trained technicians at the dealership get paid more, because they're worth more. And that naturally results in a higher flat-rate hourly charge, than some backyard hack or muffler-shop booger-eater.

When shopping for safety items like brakes, I'm shopping for the best brakes money can buy.

And while I'm on public roads, I'm praying that I don't encounter the guy with the absolute cheapest brakes money can buy.

Unfortunately for you, this is not a case of ignorance is bliss. The most dangerous thing you can do this side of Russian roulette is let a dealer work on your brakes. The last time a dealer touched the brakes on one of my vehicles was 20 years ago. The lying douche nozzles told me the stuck piston was not covered on a vehicle with 10k miles on it, and when I told them to put it back together they put the pads in backwards. Dealer techs are worth more? Let me paraphrase H.L. Mencken: You will never lose money underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

 

[The Grand Tour]

Those statements are why you have to pay the $900 curriculum fee.

You pay the dealership more. The owner gets more. The techs don't get more.

Many dealer service depts have high turnover due to low pay, high stress. So they often have the newest grads. The best techs leave as soon as they can. To better jobs at independent stores or to start their own shops.

@alarmist and @surly Bill may sound nihilistic but I think their attitude regarding dealer service depts is right more often than not.

I have a long and successful career in auto repair. You're not fooling anybody.

 

[The Grand Tour]

Unfortunately for you, this is not a case of ignorance is bliss. The most dangerous thing you can do this side of Russian roulette is let a dealer work on your brakes. The last time a dealer touched the brakes on one of my vehicles was 20 years ago. The lying douche nozzles told me the stuck piston was not covered on a vehicle with 10k miles on it, and when I told them to put it back together they put the pads in backwards. Dealer techs are worth more? Let me paraphrase H.L. Mencken: You will never lose money underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

Some of the most expensive brake jobs I've ever done, were done to repair muffler-shop "brake jobs" involving crap aftermarket rebuilt junk brakes installed backwards, upside down, and on the wrong side of the car.

And the strip your drain plug in a minute places were always my best engine replacement customers- I actually sent them "thank you" cards around Christmas time, for all of the money they brought into our shop.

 

[The Grand Tour]

There is a certain segment of consumers that associates the cheapest advertised price with being "honest", when actually the opposite is usually true. It's simple economics. I've successfully managed both dealership and independent auto repair facilities. I'm not claiming that every dealership employee is up to the task, nor am I claiming that every independent is a hack, but that's how a smart man would bet. Dealerships tend to weed out the bad apples pretty darned quick, because they can't afford damage to their reputation.

An independent that can compete with a dealership's service department, is EXTREMELY rare. One in a hundred, I'd guess. And it's not easy to do. Nor is it less expensive than a dealership. Technicians are generally paid about a third of the hourly flat-rate charge. So in order to hire the best factory-trained technicians away from a dealership, I would have to offer them more money, which means that my shop rate is going to be higher than the dealership's shop rate. And the best parts cost me the same as they cost the dealership. Fortunately, that tends to weed out those consumers who are looking for something for next to nothing, but that's actually a good thing.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

The last time I allowed a dealer to touch one of my vehicles.....
I was back east and my wife called to say her truck was making all kinds of noise, it had about 500k on it at the time. Told her to bring it in ... they said 8k for a new motor. Told her to drive it home and use mine until I get back. Long story short, $40 fix and in case anyone is wondering it now has over 800k on it with 158 ave compression and a new minor oil leak
Went back after I fixed it and reamed the shop in front of customers, they claim because of the miles they ASSUMED the motor was shot so they didn't dig in at all. I got what they charged her refunded.
Now, I'm NOT a mechanic by trade, but I **** well know more than the dealer shops do around here. This is one of the reasons I do all my own work.
Rant over, LOL.

 

[surly Bill]

Some of the most expensive brake jobs I've ever done, were done to repair muffler-shop "brake jobs" involving crap aftermarket rebuilt junk brakes installed backwards, upside down, and on the wrong side of the car.

And the strip your drain plug in a minute places were always my best engine replacement customers- I actually sent them "thank you" cards around Christmas time, for all of the money they brought into our shop.

Crappy work by day laborers and people "borrowing" a contractor license are my bread and butter. The people thinking they are saving money by hiring the lowest bid for custom work, or rounding up people in the Home Depot parking lot, will end up paying to have the "work" torn out and replaced by someone like me who actually has some mental and physical skills.

Speaking of stripping the oil pan, the BMW dealership did that to my Mom's X5 years ago, and when she brought it back the very next day because it was dripping oil, they insisted that someone else must have done it, and would she like to schedule a $2000+ replacement of the oil pan. They would not budge, because they thought they could rip off an old lady. My brother, who is a shade-tree mechanic with a degree in diesel engineering and owns and maintains about $10+ million worth of heavy equipment for his timber industry company, simply tapped the drain plug to a larger size and used a new larger bolt. 15 minutes and $30 if you count replacing the oil. I can see that a worried person would RUSH to pay the dealership $2000 for a new oil pan so their car doesn't explode, and because OEM parts are the ONLY way to do anything; God forbid the drain pan have different sized threads than came from the factory! That might make the car blow up or lose control!> Oh, Mom stopped going there for maintenance, started going to the independent German auto shop in Bend Oregon, and hasn't had any problems since.

why would someone get brakes installed at a muffler shop? Do they go to the bakery to get their muffler worked on, too? People like that shouldn't be allowed to own and operate cars.

 

[Eiko]

yeah, the $200/hr Audi dealer has an special moron, er specialist who's the only one who works on the A8s. He's the one who didn't know which side the battery was on, replaced the fuel pump for $3K when he didn't check the fuel pump relay first. Bad relay was the actual problem. No, they did not refund the $3K for replacing a good fuel pump. He also stripped the fuel pump access cover bolt holes in the aluminum body. On and on. Amazing.

Like our friend here, my buddy had always believed the dealer was the place to go for the ultimate knowledge and experience. No one ever listens to what I say on the internet or IRL But after that royal screw job, he finally admits that I'm right at least sometimes

If that dealer is paying his "specialist" 1/3 of his $200/hr shop rate, then the dealer is an idiot. Since the dealer is a successful businessman, I doubt he's an idiot and is paying his tech exactly what he's worth. $8/hr.

yeah, someone, probably @Travlin noted a hundred anecdotes don't equal one piece of evidence. True but I probably have hundreds of similar anecdotes from family and friends.

 

[surly Bill]

I'm not going to say anyone is stupid or naive for thinking dealership shops are better than some guy with a socket set and a driveway, that's mean and not very helpful. I'm just going to share my 40 years of experience with owning cars, and people can make up their own minds. Mine is already made up.

anecdotes do not equal evidence, however.

 

[lolwisper4321]

I'm not going to say anyone is stupid or naive for thinking dealership shops are better than some guy with a socket set and a driveway, that's mean and not very helpful. I'm just going to share my 40 years of experience with owning cars, and people can make up their own minds. Mine is already made up.

anecdotes do not equal evidence, however.

My worst Dealership experience was at a Ford dealer in San Jose CA. I brought my Ford Probe GT in for a brake job and after driving it home I had time to look at the work they did.
To my horrific surprise one of the rear brake caliper bolts had not even been installed and the caliper was rotated up to the 12 O'clock position just sitting halfway over the Rotor!!!!
I got it back to the dealer in one piece somehow and gave the Service Manager a hard time to say the least.
I could have had a complete wheel lockup and roll the car!!!

I have always done my own brake jobs ever since that happened!!!!

BTW, some if those brake job video for the Transit are garbage advise. One guy was using an impact wrench to install the rear Hub/Axle bolts instead of the correct torque procedure.
Most of them just gloss over the details that can make or break a brake job.

 

[surly Bill]

He might have had his impact wrench set to the correct torque. They can do that now.

btw, any time it says "tighten to Xftlbs, and then turn additional 90 degrees" or something is often a single use bolt, a stretch bolt. Trying to re-use it might result in it snapping off as you tighten it.

 

[The Grand Tour]

My worst Dealership experience was at a Ford dealer in San Jose CA. I brought my Ford Probe GT in for a brake job...

The Mazda dealership would have been a better place to take that car. The Probe is not a Ford- it's a restyled Mazda MX-6.

 

[The Grand Tour]

yeah, the $200/hr Audi dealer...

Which dealer was that? Every Audi dealership I called in your area was substantially below $200 per flat-rate hour.

 

[lolwisper4321]

He might have had his impact wrench set to the correct torque. They can do that now.

btw, any time it says "tighten to Xftlbs, and then turn additional 90 degrees" or something is often a single use bolt, a stretch bolt. Trying to re-use it might result in it snapping off as you tighten it.

You prove my point that the impact wrench is the wrong way to torque down the Hub bolts since Ford does not have a Max torque for the Hub bolt for the impact wrench to be set to. Those Hub bolts are suppose to be set at 22 ft lb plus 90 degree rotation.
Those bolts are single use bolts as you stated with Loctite type material on the threads. The guy in the video just picked up the old bolts and drove them in with a impact wrench.

How accurate are the impact wrenches with torque limiting anyway?