We had ordered the Renogy DCC50S 12 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT.... but then I cancelled the order today. We have a 2020 Transit 250 Cargo Van and I am hearing something about "Smart Alternators" and I don't even know if we have one?? Also hearing that these can actually put a drain on the alternator, and that is scary. Anyway I cancelled the order and decided to see if anyone has installed this or knows if it is okay to install?

I have one and it is working great for my application. It has provision to sense engine run or ignition on so it deals with the SRC issues just fine.

Knowing more about your intended use and electrical design would allow me to elaborate more.

BTW... you have more than just a “smart alternator” to deal with. As my signature says I have a 2020 250 and I will be happy to answer any questions you might have that I can.


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We too have a 250 and a DCC50S installed and echo Vanpacker's feedback -- it works perfectly. We too use the ignition run sensor setup. There are some nuances of using CCP1 or CCP2 for connection for trickle charging the starter battery -- but I can confirm -- it does all work very well together.

 

Planning on using the DCC50S too and glad you are getting good results. Do you isolate the solar and starter battery inputs with a selector switch?

 

The one bone I have to pick with it is that the BT-2 bluetooth dongle and app are total crap. They don’t seems to be remotely designed to work together. I have overcome much of this by strategically placing Victron components in the build to be able to remotely monitor battery state of charge over time.

 

We haven't gone down that path. With 300 watts on the roof and not too crazy of loads ('fridge and composting toilet fan overnight) -- we're usually still at 13.3ish volts at dawn and 14.4 volts by early morning. If I had detailed data tracking I'd geek out for hours. Nice to know the dongle and app are crap in case we dive in deeper...especially once winter takes a serious chunk out of our production.

 

Here is voltage and current for the same period.

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Greetings. This is my first post. I'm just starting converting my new 2020 Transit 250 and am quite ignorant. Please say more about what my smart alternator and upfitter switch panel accomplishes. Is it OK to charge my house battery directly from upfit circuit four, the one that is hot only when the engine is running? The smart alternator would provide charge as needed? The circuit has a fuse and another would be redundant? What am I missing here?

 

Hi, sorry to wake this apparently dead horse back up but I still don't understand, after reading a number of threads, if my 2021 Transit 250 amp heavy duty alternator is a "Smart Alternator", so I know which Victron B2B version to buy. The internet says "The smart alternator system allows the vehicle to control the output voltage from the alternator based on vehicle operating conditions to reduce electrical load and in turn mechanical load on the engine by the alternator, this renders it unsuccessful at charging a secondary battery system to a usable level." If I'm parsing that sentence correctly it's saying that a Smart Alternator would not be able to charge a second battery, and because my Transit has two batteries can I therefore assume that it does not have a smart alternator? So I should buy a B2B that is not for Smart Alternators?

 

It is a smart alternator. All that means is you need a dc to dc Charger that you hook up an ignition wire to, so the charger knows when to turn on. All that is is a wire that goes hot once the engine is started.

When they say it won’t charge a second battery completely, like a house battery, not the second van battery, they are talking about using an isolator or solenoid type system, not a dc to dc charger.

 

I think the Victron Smart B2B (everything is so smart!) has an "engine on" sensor based on vibration, so that makes the point moot, right? Since the issue is to avoid draining the vehicle batteries?

 

@Vanholio
I don't know about how the Victon B2B works, but did the research on the Kisea, Sterling and Renogy(w/solar). They all have an available input for an ignition signal (which is available from under the drivers seat) that when fed a voltage will reduce the cut in/cut out voltage shat the B2B needs to sense from the vehicle to start /stop charging. This is how they can effectively charge the house batteries in vehicle with the potentially lower voltages that smart charging relies on.

There is a common misconception that this signal turns the B2B on and off. That is wrong. (wrong misconception ) When the signal is removed it merely raises the the disconnect voltage to the standard alternator value setting. This may in fact shut the charging off in many situations, but not necessarily. If the vehicle is above the standard disconnect voltage the B2B will still keep charging the house batteries until it drops to the disconnect voltage. In those cases the cut out voltage is still above the lowest voltage smart charge algorithm is programmed to let the vehicle reach. The only exception to that is the Sterling (newer ones?) where the ignition signal can be used as a hard on off switch for the charger.

Bottom line with these three brands, is hook up the ignition signal and charge away. Just don't call me if you batteries won't charge or your van won't start. 😈

I would encourage you to go to the prime source documentation The manuals are all on line. They are painful to read, especially multiple times. I didn't know squat about any of this stuff. I got the general gist of it from all of the folks on this site that are generous with their experience and knowledge, but have needed to go to the manuals to be fully confident in my understanding.

 

@Vanholio
I don't know about how the Victon B2B works, but did the research on the Kisea, Sterling and Renogy(w/solar). They all have an available input for an ignition signal (which is available from under the drivers seat) that when fed a voltage will reduce the cut in/cut out voltage shat the B2B needs to sense from the vehicle to start /stop charging. This is how they can effectively charge the house batteries in vehicle with the potentially lower voltages that smart charging relies on.
...

I would encourage you to go to the prime source documentation The manuals are all on line. They are painful to read, especially multiple times. I didn't know squat about any of this stuff. I got the general gist of it from all of the folks on this site that are generous with their experience and knowledge, but have needed to go to the manuals to be fully confident in my understanding.

This was really helpful, thank you.

 

Every time I think I know something I come on here and find out I don’t lol.

So b2b is not as simple as just buying the victron b2b and hooking up to ccp2? My transit on order is 2021 with dual batteries and stock alternator.

 

Every time I think I know something I come on here and find out I don’t lol.

So b2b is not as simple as just buying the victron b2b and hooking up to ccp2? My transit on order is 2021 with dual batteries and stock alternator.

It is. Just have to hook up the ignition wire too.

 

Awesome, thanks everyone!

 

Your 2021 uses what Ford calls "Smart Regenerative Charging" (SRC) which is their version of a "smart alternator" type of system. This means the voltage/output from the alternator drops so as to maintain a less than 100% state of charge on the vehicle battery bank. This allow the alternator to kick in during coasting or braking to use that energy to charge the batteries. Most of us are using DC to DC chargers that either have a automatic way to determine when to draw current from the vehicle charging system or they utilize a signal from either "ignition" or "engine run" from the vehicle to activate charging.

*sorry.. .slow on the draw *

 

My vans a single factory battery. I hooked my Victron 30amp B2B up to CCP1. I don't have a 2. I used the ground between the seats for the new AGM deep cycle battery and ran output on B2B to my house battery. I just used the supplied plug and it seems to be fine without an ignition signal. Is that wrong??

 

Is that wrong??

My understanding is that the Victron chargers outsmart the smart alternators.

 

Hey guys.. I had no idea about the smart alternator issue. I have a 2021 AWD Transit with a single battery. I upgraded my van from a Chevy Express where I was using a CTEK D250S with a CTEK SmartPass. I had indended on hooking the CTEKs up to CCP2 to charge my house batteries while driving. Are my CTEKs obsolete with this smart alternator? It does not have an ignition on wire or anything like that.

 

My plan was to install a deep cycle (house battery) and a voltage sensing relay. Maybe spend 150 bucks. That's when "Smart Charging" took me by surprise as well. From what I understand, the Alternator doesn't charge at the required voltage to chage the house battery all the time. It's a trick Ford uses to save fuel. I went with a Battery to Battery (referred to a "B2B" on the forum) charger. It takes the lower voltage supplied and raises it up to the proper level to charge the house battery, while also isolating it from the van when it's not charging. I went with a Victron Orion 30 amp unit and a 100Ah AGM battery. Seems to work well.

As for your question about CTEK, I can't help, due to I haven't a clue what that is

 

For engine on info for Victron B2B https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...upload/documents/Engine-on-detection-set-up-Orion-Tr-Smart-DC-DC-Charger-EN.pdf

No need for extra connection except power.

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Njvagabond.. Thank you for your detailed reply! I was able to dig up a comment from the CTEK folks stating that the SmartPass is not compatible with smart alternators. I think even with your method of disabling the SRC my CTEK equipment will always have issues. What would be the correct solution for something that is made for smart alternators? The "Victron Energy Orion 30amp DC-DC Isolated" charger? I imagine hooked in to CCP1?

Thank you again for your reply in trying to make my CTEKs work. I don't mind selling them to get what works best on my 21 transit.

 

Njvagabond.. Thank you for your detailed reply! I was able to dig up a comment from the CTEK folks stating that the SmartPass is not compatible with smart alternators. I think even with your method of disabling the SRC my CTEK equipment will always have issues. What would be the correct solution for something that is made for smart alternators? The "Victron Energy Orion 30amp DC-DC Isolated" charger? I imagine hooked in to CCP1?

Thank you again for your reply in trying to make my CTEKs work. I don't mind selling them to get what works best on my 21 transit.

I am not familiar with Victron. It has a very good reputation. IMO it is a premium product at a premium price, much of which is for features that are beyond my capabilities and needs. It I am sure there will be many that disagree. I'd suggest you make sure you understand what configuration of the unit might be required and how to do it.
Kisea, Sterling and Renogy all make B2B's that have ignition signal inputs to enable them to play well with the lower voltages of the smart charging algorithm. Each brand has it's pro's and cons.

I think with one battery you only have CCP1 T, so yes. Ford does not want you to connect directly to the battery. I think they say it messes with their BMS. Many people put a fuse or more likely a breaker at a lower amp rating than the Ford fuse outside of the seat base, since it's a pain to get to the Ford fuse. A breaker also gives you the ability to shut the charger off. (Also handy if you need to store LiFPO4 at recommended 80% SOC)

I am a big proponent of going to the primary source documentation. The manuals for all of these products are on line.
It's can also be a good idea to contact tech support for clarification on any questions. That also gives you an idea of what you could expect if you run into any issues.

 

I used the non-isolated version, 30 amp hooked to CCP1. I don't see why I'd want to run a return to ground for everything I add when I have a metal van.