[rustythorn]

checklist for solar system:

120 VAC ONLY, SINGLE PHASE:

minimum;

• PV input range will accommodate PV array's output
• 4000 watt output
  • should be enough to power everything [not all at the same time]
    • can keep fridge running while using one, possibly two, high powered items
  • should be enough with transformer to power 240v 16a charging cable [3840 watts]
    • will need to temporarily shut down everything else including fridge
• balances and monitors batteries
  • double check that the unit can communicate with the batteries

desired;

• two separate PV inputs and input range accommodates each PV array's output
• MPPT range fits with both PV array's output
• 6000+ watt output
  • should be enough to not need to worry about using too many things at once
    • don't try to charge the van while using multiple high power items
    • don't try to run everything simultaneously; toilet [1800-2200], induction plate [1800], microwave/air fryer [1000-1500], AC/heat [300-900], fridge [50-150], computer [30-200], hot water [1000-2000], etc...
  • should be enough with transformer to power 240v 16a charging cable [3840 watts] without shutting down essential items [eg fridge]

120/240 VAC, SINGLE/SPLIT PHASE: [everything from above plus]

minimum;

• 120 VAC grid input [have not found any single unit systems that can do this]
• simultaneously provide 120 and 240 VAC output

desired;

• 120 and 240 VAC grid input
• 7500+ watt output to power OEM 240v 30a 7.2kw charging cable and essential items [eg fridge]

IF USING TWO UNITS:

• each unit allows different PV inputs
• both units use the same battery pack
• system will balance the battery back

note: the two separate PV arrays are the panels on the roof of the van and the deployed panels. if using large panels [300+ watts] it might be difficult to meet the units minimum start-up input voltage for roof array

 

[shityoushouldcareabout]

good info

 

[rustythorn]

more thoughts on efficiently and miscellaneous items.

one major drawback to using an all-in-one solar system is the large idle power draw so i need to some some calculations on how much a piecemeal might save on power, but if nothing else i can go with a smaller all-in-one and have a second inverter with low idle and super low standby/eco/scanning/power saver mode. many of the the all-in-one systems also have a standby mode but most of those are also on the high side but there is not much data out there, supposedly the growatt 3000 has a 2 watt standby if so that might be the best choice. as for the second inverter i want one with less than 2 or 3 watts in standby mode. there are a few out there but there are more options for the lower voltage battery banks [eg 12 and 24 volt] so my options are limited at the 48 volt level. on the flip side there are many more battery options at the 48 volt vs the lower voltages. additionally there are more all-in-one systems at the 48 volt level.

i can use the all-in-one system for items that i control when i use them, once or twice a day items [eg cooking, hot water, incinerator toilette, etc...] or charging the EV. then dedicate the secondary inverter for loads that need to turn on at their own schedule [eg fridge, mini-split].

but their is a third category i will need to take into account. these would either be items that need to be on all the time or ones that don't draw enough amps to wake the inverter out of standby mode. i could say an alarm clock would fall into this category but i normally use my current or an older cell phone for my alarm clock so i could just charge up the phone before going to bed but that has two issues, one, annoyance and two, older cell phones batteries start failing. i might also want either a fan or a white noise device, which again is a cell phone. then there is lighting. a small LED won't be able to wake up the inverter, however, i could run some or all of the lights directly off of the batteries as there are lots of 12, 24 and 48 volt LED lighting options. therefore, it would be nice to find a low power, super efficient invert for these small constant loads, however, from what i've seen thus far the lowest standby-power/watt-output ratio is in the 1000-2000 watt range. which is great for my intermittent loads [frig, minisplit] but over kill for LED lights and cell phone charging. so i will need to look into solutions for that.

miscellaneous items

this item kinda also falls in the efficiently side of things. i would like to set up some relays to active various items that don't need to be on all the time but do need to be on some of the time. i could use timers but timers themselves use power. but i could even skip the relays and just plug these items into the same circuit that intermittent loads are on. for example if i plug in my phone to an outlet that is connected to the secondary inverter, then when the frig or mini-split turn on the phone will get some charging this should be enough make it happy. i would also like to put a UV light in both the fresh and grey water tanks [since i have some extra from my aquaponics. but i don't want them running all the time so they can come on occasionally to keep fresh tank clean and the grey tank from getting too gross.

 

[GaryBIS]

i don't have hard numbers but rigid solar panels on the roof done well [eg snug to roof and a little 'ramp' fairings in front and back] will not have much relative aero drag increase. the frontal cross section area on a ford transit is about 56 square feet [and i'm not even sure that is for the tall option] so adding 2" high 72" wide panel cross section to that would increase the frontal area by less than 2% and closer to 1% for a tall transit. conversions with top mounted fans, heaters and AC units could have just as much drag

plus i'm considering adding a removable tail fairing [it would double as a side shade awning when parked] to help with aerodynamics

Hi,
Great project.

Here is a little data that might help on optimizing the aero design for solar panels...

Clearly it needs to be done right, but if done right I think the solar panel drag penalty could be pretty low.
I think it would be good to keep the most forward panel away from the transition from the windshield area onto the roof - I think you would get separation and a lot of drag if you get the panels up in this area - the test seems to support this.


Gary

 

[rustythorn]

cont from #63

i have 3ish categories of electric power demands:

1. intermittent, that i normally control when they are on or off
   1. induction burner [400-3600], no inrush?
   2. microwave/air fryer [700-1500], no inrush?
   3. hot water, [1500-4000] no inrush? [not sure if i can find 120v with less than 3000w]
   4. incinerator toilette, [2000] no inrush?
   5. charging EV, [1200-4000] no inrush? [4000 on with 240v]
   6. other?
2. intermittent, that i don't normally control when they are on or off
   1. refrigerator, 9 cu ft = 110 watts with 900 inrush
   2. freezer, 2.5 cu ft = 40 watts with 400 inrush
   3. mini-split, 9k = 400 watts with 800 inrush
3. on all the time or power on demand
   1. most of the power on demand items draw too little to turn inverter on
   2. phone
   3. laptop
   4. security system
   5. other?

i also have fans, lights and possibility other items that will need power, however, these can be powered directly from a 12v or 48v DC source so i won't need an inverter for them. i could also power my phone from 12v DC source.

for category #1, i should be able to turn the unit off most of the time or have one with a low eco [scanning/power saving/standby] mode an not worry about its idle power draw since i will be controlling when it is being used.

for category #2, this will need to be left on all/most of the time so it needs to have the lowest eco [scanning/power saving/standby] mode possible for the load profile. if all three items turn on at the same time it will have an inrush load of 2100 watts. that is unlikely to happen and even if it does it should be brief but it would be best to have an inverter than can put out 2100 watts for 5-10 seconds. some inverters can double their max load for 1-3 seconds but that might not be enough? the victron 48/1200 has nominal 1000-1200 watts with peak of 2200. digging a bit they say it can do 130% for 30 minutes, 150% for 5 seconds and 200% for 0.5 seconds. that 150% is at best 1800 watts for 5 seconds, so that might not be enough. looking at the COTEK 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter it can put out 2300 watts for 1 minute. there is a 1500 COTEK but it can only put out 2600 watts for 3 seconds and 1700 for 1 minute. the 2000 has the same power drain as the 1500 but it is 1% more efficient. COTEK 2000W idle is 24W and eco is 2.4W wereas the victron 48/1200 idle is 10W and eco is 3W but it could be reprogrammed to use less than 3W so the victron and COTEK have about the same eco but the COTEK is cheaper and can handle more power. i'm not sure if there are even more efficient inverters out there? the downside is wasted power potential, even when all three loads are running they only draw 550W or about a quarter of the COTEK so i would like to put more items on that, however, again if all start up at the same time and i have another load on the circuit then there will be issues. i could make a toggle switch that would only allow either the frig&freezer or an additional load like a microwave/air fryer. that would keep the total including inrush from the mini-split at 2300W. but i would need to remember to turn it back to frig&freezer after using the microwave/air fryer. it should have no effect on the frig&freezer since even if they did want to turn having them wait 2-20 minutes will not affect their temperatures much. i might try to use some kind of spring loaded wind up count down switch for the microwave/air fryer. that way i would not need to remember to flip it back. this has the additional benefit of not having a vampire load from the microwave/air fryer. there are lots of options like this SPDT, 30 Minute Max or a DPDT

 

[rustythorn]

chassis grounding resource

 

[rustythorn]

laying out some possible bed possibilities: currently i'm expecting to partake on this adventure alone but there is a chance it could be a shared experience to that end [or beginning?] i want to have a design that can accommodate two people but also be configured for one. i also want both people to to have easy access to the bed. my definition of that is not requiring one person to climb over another or gymnastics [ie exiting the bed from the foot or the head of the bed]. i want each person to have direct side access to the bed. those requirements are very tricky with a single mattress and does not yield very good floor plans. using two separate and separated mattresses makes that easy, however, this sacrifices 'coziness' and being able to use a ready made heated mattress pad. the cozy equation can be mostly solved with a modular setup allowing the two mattresses to be either together or separate, however, what about a heated mattress pad? i've only seen them in the standard sizes with the smallest being a twin [38" across] in which case two are too wide side by side. turns out the answer was right in front of me or rather below me. in my house i have a dual zone heated mattress pad cause i only need to heat half the bed. i realized that with my amateur sewing skills and some elastic i could cut a dual zone heated mattress pad in half and convert it into two small heated mattress pads. then i wondered if the folks who made my pad would do that for me? so i looked on their website. its been a while since i've had my pad for several years. turns out they have more options now. including a 30" wide pad, but wait there is more. they also have a 12 volt "RV" pad and some massage table pads.

after more digging on the web it seems several folk offer the same 12 volt "RV" pad which is an odd size of 30" by 60", unfortunately, i did not see any other 12 volt pad? there are, fortunately, many different kinds of massage table pads. i'll include the link to website for the folks who made my pad which includes the 12 volt "RV" and massage table pads, however, there are many other types of massage table pads on the internet and i plan to pursue those. most of the massage table pads seem to be 26-33" wide and 70-74" long which is ideal for my needs.

 

[surly Bill]

I've explored a lot of non-typical layout options. One thing people don't/won't consider is a fold-out couch.
Mainly because the mattresses on those are garbage, but that's easily rectified with a different mattress.
A loveseat width fold-out would allow entry/exit from either side. You have the issue of the wheel wells if the couch is all the way at floor level. One experitment I did was build a short platform, just on top of the wheel wells, and placed an Ikea futon type bed on top of it, up against the back doors. The platform meant you couldn't stand up back there, but sitting on the couch with an elevated view out the windows was just fine (I have full windows). I made the platform in a "U" shape so when the futon was a couch you could stand up between the wheel wells, but the frame legs were supported when pulled out as a bed. The platform made a limited height rear access "garage" for storage, but nothing like the typical 30" elevation ones everybody does. The same thing could be done with a traditional type pull-out "hide'a'bed". Or just scavenge the fold-out mechanism and build it into your own cabinet.

I like to use standard bed sizes so I can buy sheets and covers off the shelf, and the width of the Transit interior limits it to just a couple sizes. From our college days, we all know two people can sleep in a Twin (or three if you played in a band and were reasonably good looking), but a Full/Double would be more comfortable. I think the interior width is 68-70"?

There are hide a beds made with RVs in mind:
They are available on Amazon for about $1500, but fugly.

RecPro Charles 60" RV Sleeper Sofa with Hide-a-Bed

RecPro's 60" sofa sleeper love seat has a contemporary design and outstanding comfort. Great for your RV, camper, motorhome or any living space!

www.recpro.com

This Twin size is $600 and a lot more versatile for installation:

Costway 40 in. Gray Fabric Twin Size Sofa Bed with Pillow H9I-10N093GR - The Home Depot

Dress up your couch, sofa or bed in style by choosing this Costway Grey Convertible Twin Sofa Bed Folding Sleeper Chair w Pillow.

www.homedepot.com

 

[rustythorn]

I've explored a lot of non-typical layout options. One thing people don't/won't consider is a fold-out couch.
Mainly because the mattresses on those are garbage, but that's easily rectified with a different mattress.
A loveseat width fold-out would allow entry/exit from either side. You have the issue of the wheel wells if the couch is all the way at floor level. One experitment I did was build a short platform, just on top of the wheel wells, and placed an Ikea futon type bed on top of it, up against the back doors. The platform meant you couldn't stand up back there, but sitting on the couch with an elevated view out the windows was just fine (I have full windows). I made the platform in a "U" shape so when the futon was a couch you could stand up between the wheel wells, but the frame legs were supported when pulled out as a bed. The platform made a limited height rear access "garage" for storage, but nothing like the typical 30" elevation ones everybody does. The same thing could be done with a traditional type pull-out "hide'a'bed". Or just scavenge the fold-out mechanism and build it into your own cabinet.

I like to use standard bed sizes so I can buy sheets and covers off the shelf, and the width of the Transit interior limits it to just a couple sizes. From our college days, we all know two people can sleep in a Twin (or three if you played in a band and were reasonably good looking), but a Full/Double would be more comfortable. I think the interior width is 68-70"?

View attachment 183866

There are hide a beds made with RVs in mind:
They are available on Amazon for about $1500, but fugly.

RecPro Charles 60" RV Sleeper Sofa with Hide-a-Bed

RecPro's 60" sofa sleeper love seat has a contemporary design and outstanding comfort. Great for your RV, camper, motorhome or any living space!

www.recpro.com

This Twin size is $600 and a lot more versatile for installation:

Costway 40 in. Gray Fabric Twin Size Sofa Bed with Pillow H9I-10N093GR - The Home Depot

Dress up your couch, sofa or bed in style by choosing this Costway Grey Convertible Twin Sofa Bed Folding Sleeper Chair w Pillow.

www.homedepot.com

a sofa bed setup was my initial idea and will be what i use if i go with a single mattress

 

[rustythorn]

i like that most folk name their van/project and i've been wondering if i could find a good name for mine. i need to avoid my default of the nerdy esoteric route but i also don't want something cheesy. i'd like something that reflects my personality, the build process and the mission statement once completed and i have my first contender: TUMBLEWEED. not yet set into stone, i'll keep pondering but if that ends up as my final choice i think it will be a good fit. i did not check to see if this was a common name for a camper van, hopefully not

 

[Michael Ophus]

Lots of luck.

What did you name your van, and why?

What did you name your van, and why? I notice that folks give their van a name, just like a boat. I like that. Names give meaning, maybe personal, maybe whimsical. C’mon now, you’ve got a story, so spill it. Don’t be shy. I’ll start…. So, about that Red Thing… We’d like to blame Delta...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

 

[rustythorn]

WARNING, THERE IS SOME MISLEADING INFO IN THIS POST, check out post #81

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below is a chart summarizing what my current build might use [last column] and some items i've considered, efficient was my primary goal and weight was second. i was happy to find out getting both the highest efficient and lightest weight was not more expensive than other high quality items. even if the cheaper options weren't power hogs, there is a good chance the victron items will be equivalent in cost in the long run.

	schneider 4048, victron 250/70	schneider 6848, victron 250/70	various split-phase 6000 watt	various single-phase 6500 watt, transformer	dual growatt 3000	victron: RS 48/6000, mutiplus-II, 100/20
cost	2340	4240	1500-2000	2000-2500	1600	3660
weight, lbs	74.61	128.61	78-115	60-80	38	67.43
output, watts	3800	6800	6000	6500	6000	7700
max array size, watts	4000	4000	6000	8000	4500	5160
dual MPPT	yes	yes	no	yes	yes	yes
redundent inverter	no	no	no	no	yes	yes
redundent SCC	no	no	no	no	yes	yes
self-consumption, ON	32.96	55.96	70	70	120	31.912, 11.912**
self-consumption, standby	11.96	8.96	70	70	2*	2.336

*growatt 3000 only in single phase/single unit, switching back and forth would require rewiring/reprogramming
** if only using 120 volt systems power use drops by 20 watts

same chart again but with comments instead of numbers

	schneider 4048, victron 250/70	schneider 6848, victron 250/70	various split-phase 6000 watt	various single-phase 6500 watt, transformer	dual growatt 3000	victron: RS 48/6000, mutiplus-II, 100/20
cost	cheaper	more expensive	half the price	cheaper	half the price	3660
weight, lbs	heavier	twice as heavy	heavier	same	lighter	67.43
output, watts	not enough	less	less	less	less	7700
max array size, watts	4000	4000	6000	8000	4500	5160
dual MPPT	yes	yes	no	yes	yes	yes
redundant inverter	no	no	no	no	yes	yes
redundant SCC	no	no	no	no	yes	yes
self-consumption, ON	same or 3*more	almost twice, 5*more	>double, 6*more	>double, 6*more	no way!!!!	31.912, 11.912
self-consumption, standby	4 times more	3 times more	no way!!!!	no way!!!!	no way!!!!	2.336

 

[rustythorn]

Lots of luck.

What did you name your van, and why?

What did you name your van, and why? I notice that folks give their van a name, just like a boat. I like that. Names give meaning, maybe personal, maybe whimsical. C’mon now, you’ve got a story, so spill it. Don’t be shy. I’ll start…. So, about that Red Thing… We’d like to blame Delta...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

thanks for the link

other names could be the "alpha and the omega" [ volts = amps * ohms ] or "currently resisting" [ voltage = current * resistance ] or even "fulgurite" but that would be back into the obscure

 

[rustythorn]

i've gone back and forth on what size cabin battery i should get my initial thoughts were 5-10 kwh and then i've gone as high as 20-25 kwh but i think i will settle around 15 kwh. if i was building an ICE van then i would need 20-25 kwh to make sure i had enough power but if i get a OEM inverter on the EV van then i can tap into the much larger van battery if i need more power. that logic was why i originally thought 5-10 kwh would be enough, however, having 15 kwh gives me a few things, besides peace of mind, i can keep the discharge rates more reasonable relative to my maximum output. it will also give me enough power to take a break [eg food, sight see] while also charging the van while parked, assuming no charging stations, and still provide enough power for later.

i've been looking at various threads about pluming and i keep wondering why folk's builds were so complex. finally a geyser when off and i realized that they have to account for both hot and cold water. with the cold coming straight from the tank and the hot from a hot water tank. this makes my tankless approach even nicer than originally i imagined. for me both hot and cold run through the tankless unit, if its on i get hot water, if off cold water. so not only is it small, light [size of text book, 4 lbs] and does not require venting or special mounting needs but it also makes my pipe work much simpler.

 

[rustythorn]

i might get some kind of magnetic lock for my cabinets, that way no nobs to worry about. don't think i will get these, however, they look a little low quality and the disable switch might rattle in to place and i don't like the idea of relying on tape to hold everything together but it is a good idea

there are other options and these seem to be a little better. the disable switch is horizontal so it will be harder for it to be knocked into the wrong spot, but i could also glue or tape the switch into place. these also have screw holes in addition to the tape adhesive. if the magnetic 'key' is not enough to pull the drawer/cabinet open i could mount a small piece of metal which would also make it easier to find the right spot to trigger it

one
two
three

 

[Campervan Man]

i might get some kind of magnetic lock for my cabinets, that way no nobs to worry about. don't think i will get these, however, they look a little low quality and the disable switch might rattle in to place and i don't like the idea of relying on tape to hold everything together but it is a good idea

These locks are meant for daycares to keep children out of cabinets. I wouldn't think they are a good long term solution. Plus if you're going to mount something to show where to place the magnet might as well use a push button. I would use nice locking knobs such as:
push to lock rv cabinet knobs - Google Search

 

[surly Bill]

You could give it the same name I did, I don't mind: The Van

 

[rustythorn]

WARNING, THERE IS SOME MISLEADING INFO IN THIS POST, I'LL EITHER FIX IT [and delete this warning] OR POST BETTER INFO LATER, basically, for victron units to be compatible with USA 240VAC we need to pair/stack them...

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if anyone has been insane enough to follow this thread you will not be surprised that i've, once again, changed my mind about my plans. this will be an ongoing trend and the point of this thread as i learn new things and come up with better ideas. i started making some modifications to the electrical system i last laid out [post #72]. initially i just wanted to improve on the efficiency of the system but along the way i learned something a little bit profound and it has given me cause to revisit a possibility that i previously considered too heavy, extravagant and expensive. i briefly toyed with the idea of an enhanced EV charging system and/or being able to charge the cabin battery from a public charging station. the most common by far public charging option is 6.6kW, however, most modern EVs can charge faster. the e-transit can charge at 11.5kW [48a * 240vac]. the idea is to augment the 6.6kW charging station with my cabin batter/solar panels and charge the van at 11.5kW. this would require a large, heavy and expensive inverter to provide 11.5kW or better yet 12-13 kW that way items inside the van can be used while charging [eg AC, cooking]. hence why i did not give this idea much thought. just looking at a victron unit we would need multiplus 48/15000/200-100 which can put out 15kW but weights 80kg and is 810x405x217mm [ie $5000, big and heavy].

i could use a cheaper option than victron but it will still be big, heavy and expensive, however, turns out we don't need a big inverter. in fact the current setup i have can do the job. let me recap my requirements and current plans. i need 2-3kW of 120VAC and 5kW of 240VAC. looking at post #72 the main items are a victron multiplus [3k 120VAC] and a victron RS solar [5k 240VAC]. i recently decided to improve on this a little by replacing the RS solar with either a easysolar or SCC + multiplus [3k 240VAC]. this would have dropped my 240 VAC max from 5k to 2.4k which is not enough but since the number of times i would need 5k is small i could also add a cheap EG4 5k inverter. i was considering this because it would be about the same price and volume and only a little heavier but it would double my efficiency.

but i keep digging and learning. the victrons have a mostly unique feature called powerassist. this lets you combine an AC input with your batteries/inverter to produce 2-4 times the nominal power. thus i could replace the EG4 5k inverter with a much cheaper 120 to 240 transformer, then combine the 2.4kW from the multiplus [3k 120VAC] with the 2.4kW multiplus [3k 240VAC] for 4.8kW of continuous power [and well above 5kW for the brief periods i'd be running the tankless water heater]. additionally if i was plugged into 15A 120VAC shore power i could add 1.8W to the mix for a total of 6.6kW and even more if plugged into a 20, 30 or 50A shore power. so with a lowly standard outlet i could produce as much as a public charging station.

then i thought what if i replaced the multiplus [3k 240VAC] with a multiplus [5k 240VAC]. the multiplus [5k 240VAC] is a little bigger, heavier and pricier but not substantially. with the multiplus [5k 240VAC], i could draw 6.6kW from a public charging station add it to the 5k multiplus for a total of 10.6kW. while that is nice it does not max out the e-transit's 11.5kW charging capability. so more digging and learning. the victron quattro is identical to the victron 5k multiplus but allows for two separate AC inputs thus i could also add in the 2.4 kW from the 3k multiplus 120VAC for a total of 13kW output.

the 5k quattro weighs 30 kg compared to the 15kW multiplus at 80 kg and is a third the price. i could add in the costs and weights for the other system components but those items are my baseline required items so really it is just comparing the 5k quattro to any other 13+kW inverter/charger. which means the victron setup will a lot cheaper than another option and not take up more space or weight.

cool but wait how much battery power will this require? if i'm maxing out the van's charging at 11.5kW and using 6.6kW from the charging station then i need to make up 4.9kW of power. i'll have at a minimum 700-1000 watts of solar on the roof so lets roundup the power gap to 5kW and subtract 1kW for a total of 4kW of battery power. three hours would be 12kWh which would be easy for a 15kWh pack. the amps would be 4000W/50VDC = 80A easy for a 15kWh pack. if possible i could deploy some additional panels to reduce the power gap.

TL;DR
using the victron powerassist i can meet my basic needs [2-3 kWh 120v, 5kWh 240] for the same cost and size but double my efficiency or for an additional 10 lbs and $1500 i could output over 13kWh of power.

 

[rustythorn]

WARNING, THERE IS SOME MISLEADING INFO IN THIS POST, check out post #81

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to help narrow down my final choices i made a spread sheet with different combinations of the various components i'm considering to get some exact numbers on cost, weight, efficiency and power output. the bulk of the components i'm considering are victron. elsewhere i've laid out reasons for victron but basically their long term costs will likely be comparable to cheaper items and victron has the highest efficiency options.
the components are:

• 3k multiplus 120VAC + SCC 100/20
• RS solar 48/6000
• 3k easysolar 240VAC or 3k multiplus 240VAC + SCC 150/70
• 5k quattro 240VAC + SCC 150/70

all of the mutliplus options also use a 5k transformer

all of the combinations start with the 3k multiplus 120VAC and SCC 100/20. the multiplus covers all of 120VAC needs and the SCC 100/20 runs the solar on the roof. the permutations involve the 240 VAC items and how the deployable solar will be connected. note the 3k easysolar and 3k multiplus + SCC 150/70 are essentially the same thing [really it should be 250/70], however the multiplus+SCC is a little cheaper and lighter and allows for slightly better efficiency. i made couple dozen different setups including other components such as 5k multiplus and EG4's 5k inverter/charger. i picked the top choices and put them in the table below:

i included a couple of schneider items for comparison and looking at my earlier posts i made comparisons to cheaper solutions, however, those other options have even worse efficiencies.

			lightest		most efficient	high power
	schneider 4048, victron 250/70	schneider 6848, victron 250/70	victron: RS 48/6000, mutiplus-II, 100/20	victron:easysolar3k, 3k multi+II, 100/20, 5k transformer	3kmulti+II 240, 3kmulti+II 120, 100/20, 150/70, 5k transformer	5kquatro-II 240, 3kmulti+II 120, 100/20, 150/70, 5k transformer
cost	2140	4240	3660	3710	3610	4410
weight, lbs	74.61	128.61	67.43	120.55012	111.73164	135.9786
240VAC output, watts	3800	6800	5200	2400	2400	4000
120VAC output, watts	3800	6800	2400	2400	2400	2400
kwh/y 120VAC 50% duty	196.7496	262.4496	59.88336	59.88336	59.88336	59.88336
+deployed solar 50% duty	200.9544	266.6544	147.48336	68.64336	64.08816	64.08816
+ 240VAC 50% duty	310.4544	376.1544	191.28336	116.82336	112.26816	142.92816
+ 240VAC 75% duty	345.4944	411.1944	205.29936	140.91336	136.35816	182.34816
+ 240VAC 100% duty	419.9544	485.6544	235.08336	165.00336	160.44816	221.76816
min 240VAC out	3800	6800	4800	4800	4800	6400
max @ charging station	3800	6800	5300	**9600	**9600	**13600
*max 240 w/ 15A 120VAC	3800	6800	5200	6600	6600	8200
*max 240 w/ 30A 120VAC	3800	6800	5200	8400	8400	10000
*max 240 w/ 50A 120VAC	3800	6800	5200	8400	8400	***12400
kwh/y@75%-most efficient	209.13624	274.83624	68.9412	4.5552	0	45.99
watts wasted per day	572.976	752.976	188.88	12.48	0	126
extra solar needed to fix	114.5952	150.5952	37.776	2.496	0	25.2
extra solar in winter [x3]	343.7856	451.7856	113.328	7.488	0	75.6
*grid plug in				**EV station adapter		***8-10k transformer

i made some broad assumptions about usage but also provided a wide range. i'm focusing on the 75% duty cycle. since the 240VAC system will be running the AC/heat, toilet, hot water heater and charging the van while parked in remote areas i think 75% is a good guess. lets compare the most efficient to the other options. it is a good 40+ pounds heavier than the lightest option but i would need at least an additional 100 watts of solar power to make up the power loss difference so really not that much heavier. another issue with the most efficient option is the 3k multiplus 240VAC only puts out 2400 watts by itself whereas the RS 48/6000 puts out over 5000 watts and the schneider can do 6800 watts, however, with a transformer i can use both multipluses together like a stack-able pair to bring the most efficient option to 4800 watts. this is enough to meet all of my needs but it is still far behind the schneider and various all-in-one systems but again with the powerassist a standard wall outlet will raise the power of most efficient option to 6600 watts and it can produce more power with access to even more shore power, maxing out around 10000 watts.

thus the most efficient option seems like the winner, however, there is also the high power option. it is 25 pounds heavier and $800 more but it can produce 6400 watts without any shore input and would also allow me to charge at 4000 watts without the need to pair up both inverters with a transformer. furthermore, it can produce 13600 watts when plugged into an EV charging station and in the unlikely event i have access to both 30A 120VAC and 30A 240VAC shore power it can produce 17200 watts but i really don't need that much power. sure i could charge the van at max rate and wash dishes with hot water while cooking or using the microwave and the AC is on... the real question would be how often will i need/want to convert a low power EV charging station into a high power station? another factor is the future of EV charging stations. right now most stations are 6.6 kw but most/all EVs made to today have charging rates of at least 11.5 kw. will the near future be all higher powered stations or will 6.6 kw dominate the field for another 10-15 years? upgrading the output of an EV charging station also increases my safety. there have been a number of reports of charging stations damaging EVs. since i will be inputting the charging station into my cabin power system instead of the van i only risk smaller, cheaper and easily replaceable items instead of breaking the van. furthermore, since i'll have correctly sized fuses and breakers and high quality inverter/chargers it is very unlikely even those items will be damaged.

comparing the high power option to back to the schneider 6800 or other all-in-one systems. the high power option has the same nominal power output but is slightly heavier and slightly more expense [twice the price of an cheap all-in-one], however, the high power option has the ability to triple its output and it is still more than twice as efficient than the schneider [three times better than cheaper all-in-ones]. also, back to the high efficiency option, i would need an additional 150 watts of solar to make up the loss from a schneider [200 watts for a cheap all-in-one] but that is for a yearly average. in the winter/cloudy weather would need a lot more solar to cover the difference, a simple assumption could be three times more or 450 more watts [600 for a cheap all-in-one]

for now i still need to decide between the high efficiency option or the high power option.

 

[rustythorn]

given the limitations of EV range i would like to improve aerodynamics. to that end, i could add wheel well covers to the rear tires, however, it seems that the ratio of work+weight/gain is a bit high especially for a large van, however, i just had the idea to make them multipurpose and use them as shelves/tables. this might make them worthwhile