Any update on this?

 

Sounds like one of the starter batteries is dead/dying, the van will charge at for about 10 minutes after starting then switch to maintenance mode.

the way ford wires the dual batteries it puts more work on the one with the primary terminal(closer to cargo area). One thing you can do to test it is, remove one battery and see how it acts.

if you have time pull both batteries out let them sit disconnected, and check voltage after an hour or two. They should be within 0.2v of each other. When I replaced mine is was at least 0.8v difference.

 

What settings did you try? It looks like there is a "shutdown voltage" (charger will stop if voltage is below that level for 1 minute) and "input voltage lock out" (charger will stop immediately if voltage is below that level). If your charger shuts off at 12.9v then make sure that both of these levels are set lower than 12.9v.

4. Operation, configuration and monitoring

www.victronenergy.com

The apps apparently also has "Why is the charger off?" diagnostic information which may give you some more clues.

Note also that your AGM resting voltage of 12.8v corresponds to an AGM battery at 99% state of charge. If you can't fine tune the Orion settings to shut off the charger exactly when the engine stops, it should be OK to have it keep running for a while until the starter batteries get down to 12.75v (approx 90% state of charge).

 

I was under the impression that the new Victron Orion XS 12-12 50 amp has a buck-boost function that will take the variable input voltage from the smart alternator and either Lower (Buck) or Increase (boost) the voltage to the desired charging needs for whatever battery chemistry you have. This is one its features which is why i'm switching from the sterling to Victron. And I beleive it would eliminate the need for SRC inhibition.

if you're having problems with your Victron Orion however, I would try the SRC inhibit on a switch, allowing your alternator output to provide steady flow of strong voltage.

 

if you're having problems with your Victron Orion however, I would try the SRC inhibit on a switch, allowing your alternator output to provide steady flow of strong voltage.

While I love higher input voltage and all about TPHPM, it's more about getting the settings right than increasing the input voltage specially with a single 50a charger and 250a of available amperage. I'm planning to run two of the 24v versions, one charger is on with engine-run and have wired up a switching mechanism for TPHPM that's turns the second charger on only when TPHPM is enabled.

This charger has an operating range of 9v to 17v, we can make it work as low a 9v(imo, we shouldn't but it can) and this can be used to account for the smart alternator. It is limited to 50a of input current and rated for 700w total making its ideal voltage 14v. 13-13.2v seems to be a common running voltage in my van. I'll take the low number in the range, 13v at 50a is 650w input and should expect 615w(45a) output with 95% efficiency output from what I've seen posted here and elsewhere. Ultimately the charger just needs to stay on and minimally lowering output with the smart alternator doing its thing.

In order to decipher what Victron is saying in the documentation about the engine shutdown detection algorithm take a look at this chart, the first thing to take note of is how Imax and Vstarter are linked. As Vin drops to Vshutdown the charger will start to reduce Imax, if Vstarter voltage continues to drop below Vshutdown it will reduce current further all the way to 0a. The charger can sense this, calculating how much to limit output current. The smart alternator Vstarter voltage can and does drop to native battery voltage of ~12.8v, sometimes lower depending on load. Since the van will naturally bring the alternator voltage down, the settings for engines shutdown detection need to setup just right to keep the charger for reducing its output. It's actually quite critical if you want it to operate as expected(marketed is more like it, imo).

So really all we need to account for this in the engine shutdown detection settings is to make sure the Vshutdown is aligned with the smart alternator/battery voltages. It needs to make sense for an alternator off situation, 12.4v is what I've used successfully. This will keep the amperage up at a lower input voltage, and the Ford BMS should recognize the load and turn the alternator back on as the voltage gets too low. But 50a at 13v should be no problem for the single alternator even at idle, which seems to be normal operating conditions for me(this varies some because chassis SoC and load are big variables). Some considerations should be taken when setting Vstart and Vstart(delayed) start voltages to account for quick stops like the refueling. While Input lockout voltages are set complimentary to Vshutdown, 12.2v is what I have used successfully.

Manual Text:

Engine shutdown detection sequence

1. 0 → 1: If the engine runs, the alternator voltage will ramp up. When Vstarter > Vstart, charging is enabled.
   
   
2. 1 → 2: The input current produces a voltage across the input cable (Vcable); this voltage reduces the voltage measured by the charger (VIN). If VIN > Vshutdown, the charger will operate at Imax.
   
   
3. 2 → 3: If VIN ≤ Vshutdown, the charge current will be reduced to prevent VIN to drop below Vshutdown.
   
   
4. 3 → 4: If VIN < Vshutdown for longer than 1min (tshutdown), “engine off” is detected and charging is disabled. If VIN > Vshutdown before tshutdown runs out, charging remains enabled.
   
   
5. 4 → 5: If Vstart(delay) < VIN < Vstart, charging is enabled after tstart delay (configurable).

Note: I typed this all out and then realized how old the thread was, I'm still posting it.

 

Interesting, for my particular set up, I have two Orion 50s 12V, set up in parallel. I also have an aftermarket high idle system to rev up the RPMs on a switch if I’m not getting the enough amps from the alternator, but obviously it doesn’t make the alternator unsmart, so I was going to wire in the TPHPM system too on a switch.

Your method, if I’m understanding correctly, comes down to fine-tuning the engine detection shut off on the Orion and essentially lowering its cutoff voltage to keep the Orion running.

The graph does not show what the input voltage needs to be to initiate the shutdown for greater than one minute? If we have that number, let’s say 12.8 V? Then we simply lower it down to maybe 12.2 V?

is this easy to do? And does it replace needing to do the TPHPM and ignition signal switch

 

Interesting, for my particular set up, I have two Orion 50s 12V, set up in parallel. I also have an aftermarket high idle system to rev up the RPMs on a switch if I’m not getting the enough amps from the alternator, but obviously it doesn’t make the alternator unsmart, so I was going to wire in the TPHPM system too on a switch.

I implemented it for my build, do I think it's totally necessary? No probably not as 100a is only about 40% of the alternators total capacity, and I'm only going to run 1 of the 2 chargers with TPHPM turned off. Is it cool to have the tool to maximize charging, heck yea! I'm going to use SEIC to accomplish high idle, but I thought I saw you mention intermotive. Which module do you have?

Your method, if I’m understanding correctly, comes down to fine-tuning the engine detection shut off on the Orion and essentially lowering its cutoff voltage to keep the Orion running.

This is accurate.

The graph does not show what the input voltage needs to be to initiate the shutdown for greater than one minute? If we have that number, let’s say 12.8 V? Then we simply lower it down to maybe 12.2 V?

It does not show because it is based on your specific settings, if those setting are defined around the transit electrical system they will be in the mid-12v. I personally set my Orion-Tr's at 12.4v for Vshutdown as the load of the chargers does bring the battery voltage down a bit when the alternator is off. I had the voltage lockout set at 12.2v as a safety net, but it could definitely go lower and not be a big deal. How much lower will be based on your level of comfort in what I consider low voltage, some folks on here will let them dip all the way into the 11s.

is this easy to do? And does it replace needing to do the TPHPM and ignition signal switch

Honestly, it would have been easier to setup the settings and roll with it. That's not really my schtick though, I'm a make it as complicated as as possible type guy. lol

When I implemented TPHPM, I totally disabled the engine shutdown detection and that gets rid of all faffing around with the setting. One charger just comes on and goes full chooch when I start the van, the other charger is only on with TPHPM. My switches and relay board for this are overly complicated, but gives me a lot of flexibility when the second charger runs and both chargers rely on engine-run to be on. I'm still waiting on the 12|24 version of the XS, but this method has been applied to my current Orion-Tr's. I made a post or two in my build thread if you're interested in how I implemented it.

 

About to wire up a switch for TPHPM between pins 1 and 3 on the connector under the drivers seat. I've seen some really great graphs of battery voltage and factory alternator voltage at times. How are you measuring this?

My own thought is to measure between CCP1 and chassis ground and call that 'starter battery' voltage when the engine isn't running, and when it is, call it Ford smart alternator voltage. Accurate?

The Orion XS 12-12-50 I have hooked up to CCP2 can give me historical graphs on 'input voltage' which should be the Ford alternator voltage when the engine is running and CCP2 is hot.

I have the dual factory AGMs under the seat and realize this doesn't give me a good way of detecting variances between the two batteries. Short of running pig tails from the battery out the back so I don't have to remove the seat + swivel (always a PITA), how else are people easily measuring this for monitoring and troubleshooting?

I think ForScan has some parameters for it. If so, accurate?

After 20+ years of developing Windows software, I haven't had a Windows box in over a decade now so that's a bit of a pain point if I have to go there.

 

Smartshunt Aux hooked to CCP1 is how I’m measuring voltage, starter resting battery voltage with the engine off and alternator voltage with the engine running.

 

A simple way to monitor chassis battery voltage is with a meter plugged into a power port. The 2 starter batteries are connected in parallel so they always have the same voltage.