WIRING: If I had it to do over again.....

9389 Views 68 Replies 19 Participants Last post by TonyD-ROAMR, 10 mo ago

tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · Sep 29, 2021

I'd use a ESP32 and a 8 channel relay board (or maybe a 16) and wire everything off that. I'd mount that beside the new house fusebox. I'd use momentary "normally open" switches to trigger the ESP based upon a "change of state" of the switch. I'd write the code so the ESP32 Inputs triggered by a ground signal. That way every switch would only need one very small wire to it from the ESP because I'd ground each one to the body locally to supply the ground. I could have used as many switches as I wanted to for every single device. If I would have done that, I could have controlled everything from my phone over a WiFi access point on the ESP and even used timers in the code if I chose to. Temperature sensors and photocells could have been implemented as well. Manual switches could have been grouped together and wired using just one cat 5 wire allowing 8 switches to be wired with just one small cat 5 wire. The sky would have been the limit and the costs would have been far less. There would have been no need for 3 way or 4 way switches and all that 14 gauge wire. Better control, centrally located components, less wiring, less voltage drop and less chance for a malfunction! The boards are only a few bucks and the 32's are inexpensive. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess!

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orton

· #2 · Sep 29, 2021 (Edited)

tngw1500se said:
I'd use a ESP32 and a 8 channel relay board (or maybe a 16) and wire everything off that. I'd mount that beside the new house fusebox. I'd use momentary "normally open" switches to trigger the ESP based upon a "change of state" of the switch. I'd write the code so the ESP32 Inputs triggered by a ground signal. That way every switch would only need one very small wire to it from the ESP because I'd ground each one to the body locally to supply the ground. I could have used as many switches as I wanted to for every single device. If I would have done that, I could have controlled everything from my phone over a WiFi access point on the ESP and even used timers in the code if I chose to. Temperature sensors and photocells could have been implemented as well. Manual switches could have been grouped together and wired using just one cat 5 wire allowing 8 switches to be wired with just one small cat 5 wire. The sky would have been the limit and the costs would have been far less. There would have been no need for 3 way or 4 way switches and all that 14 gauge wire. Better control, centrally located components, less wiring, less voltage drop and less chance for a malfunction! The boards are only a few bucks and the 32's are inexpensive. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess!

I am confused. How would I use a ESP32 and a relay board? What would I control?

I have the following 12 volt switches:

1. On/off switch at the ceiling at rear doors for the rear LED light.
2. On/off switch high on shower wall for the shower LED light.
3. On/off switch on side of sink cabinet for two LED lights over sink counter.
4. On/off switch on wall above the sink counter for the water pump.
5. On/off switch on bottom of right side overhead cabinet for LED light string under passenger side upper cabinet.
6. On/off switch on bottom of left side overhead cabinet for LED light string under driver side upper cabinet.

Light switches are placed where I will be located when I want that particular light.

I have two shore power 120 volt AC selector switches:

1. A 3 position switch to select shore power or " shore power" from the vehicle powered inverter or off.
2. A 4 position switch to select charging or water heating or air heating or off. In charging position that charges house battery and powers the 120 volt AC duplex outlet string.

No other controls. All 12 volt loads powered by Blue Sea fuse blocks.

One string of 120 volt AC duplex outlets.

All DC and AC wiring done with "SOOW" cords. 14/3 for AC, 12/2 for 12 volt plugs, 14/2 for Maxxair and water pump and 16/2 for LED lights.

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Captadv

· #3 · Sep 29, 2021

I'm very interested in hearing more about this. I'm also considering some DIY control systems. Very opened ended at this point...

brío

· #4 · Sep 29, 2021

Yep.
In addition, you can use things like this:

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

www.amazon.com

to avoid having to run control wires to the loads (DC or AC) at all.

I am planning on writing a central controller using microPython on an ESP32, probably with a touch screen.

tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 30, 2021

orton said:
I am confused. How would I use a ESP32 and a relay board? What would I control?

I'd control all the lights with the ESP. That way I could put "control panels" in different places that would allow control of any light from any location. I'd probably use regular blank household wall palates and drill holes in it for the switches. Then just run a cat 5 wire to each panel. Buttons could be programed to allow dimming and/or count down to off. It could even be programed that when the TV is turned on, the lights dim. A "one button" "all off" or "all on" would be easy too. If you always had a hot spot, it could even be Alexa controlled.

The way I did my NON-ESP wiring added a lot of complicated wiring and larger switches. I have one LED strip set that can be turned on or off from 4 locations (drivers seat, countertop area, sliding door and above the bed), that required two 3 way switches and two 4 way switches with wiring between all the switches. I bet there's 40 feet of wire just for that. With a ESP, I could have ran one wire from the relay to the LED's and used cat 5 to all the panels. That one cat 5 ran back to the ESP would control 8 devices. Then anytime I wanted to I could add, change or remove a switches function in each panel. There would never be a need to rewire anything if I wanted to change or add something. Just reprogram the ESP. I could do that "over the air" while the van is in the driveway.

I'd also like to be able to turn the Van PC on from in the house. Sometimes I download videos to the hard drive and have to go out and turn the inverter on. The PC fires up anytime it has power so a ESP on the WiFi and a relay would allow me to turn it on remotely.

The only drawback would be there would be a very very very small power draw from the ESP. It would takes months and months to wear down a battery.

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tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 30, 2021

brío said:
...probably with a touch screen.

Just one???

Reactions: 1

Pajarojo

· #7 · Sep 30, 2021

tngw1500se said:
I'd control all the lights with the ESP. That way I could put "control panels" in different places that would allow control of any light from any location. I'd probably use regular blank household wall palates and drill holes in it for the switches. Then just run a cat 5 wire to each panel. Buttons could be programed to allow dimming and/or count down to off.

I'm totally new to this, only googled it after reading your first post... but looks interesting. How would the control panels look exactly? Based on your description of running cat5 to each panel, I'm guessing you'd be using a PoE ESP32 board like this one and then somehow wire your momentary switches to that PoE board? (I haven't gotten far enough to figure out how to wire the switches).
And then the cat5 cables would be routed to a networking switch with another ESP32 board connected to a relay board like this one?

Sorry - total noob here. But you've piqued my interest!

Reactions: 1

tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 30, 2021

brío said:
Yep.
In addition, you can use things like this:

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

www.amazon.com

to avoid having to run control wires to the loads (DC or AC) at all.

I am planning on writing a central controller using microPython on an ESP32, probably with a touch screen.

I have not used those. I've been using Sonoff's for stuff around the house. I install them in fans, stereo receivers, etc. Would you flash them and use a broker in the van?

orton

· #9 · Sep 30, 2021

tngw1500se said:
I'd control all the lights with the ESP. That way I could put "control panels" in different places that would allow control of any light from any location. I'd probably use regular blank household wall palates and drill holes in it for the switches. Then just run a cat 5 wire to each panel. Buttons could be programed to allow dimming and/or count down to off. It could even be programed that when the TV is turned on, the lights dim. A "one button" "all off" or "all on" would be easy too. If you always had a hot spot, it could even be Alexa controlled.

The way I did my NON-ESP wiring added a lot of complicated wiring and larger switches. I have one LED strip set that can be turned on or off from 4 locations (drivers seat, countertop area, sliding door and above the bed), that required two 3 way switches and two 4 way switches with wiring between all the switches. I bet there's 40 feet of wire just for that. With a ESP, I could have ran one wire from the relay to the LED's and used cat 5 to all the panels. That one cat 5 ran back to the ESP would control 8 devices. Then anytime I wanted to I could add, change or remove a switches function in each panel. There would never be a need to rewire anything if I wanted to change or add something. Just reprogram the ESP. I could do that "over the air" while the van is in the driveway.

I'd also like to be able to turn the Van PC on from in the house. Sometimes I download videos to the hard drive and have to go out and turn the inverter on. The PC fires up anytime it has power so a ESP on the WiFi and a relay would allow me to turn it on remotely.

The only drawback would be there would be a very very very small power draw from the ESP. It would takes months and months to wear down a battery.

I understand your description. My conversion is much simpler so no need for automation. I reduced the number of lights and refined the switch location from the Sprinter build for the Transit build. Putting the switches in the location I would be located was a big improvement compared to the Sprinter build with switches in the wrong locations and too many lights.

I hate TV so no need to think about that. One reason for the van is to escape TV.

We all have different requirements so what I built would not be what you would want.

Van Gogh

· #10 · Sep 30, 2021 (Edited)

brío said:
Yep.
In addition, you can use things like this:

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

Amazon.com : SHELLY 1 One Relay Switch Wireless WiFi Home Automation iOS Android Application (4 Pack) UL Certified : Electronics

www.amazon.com

to avoid having to run control wires to the loads (DC or AC) at all.

I am planning on writing a central controller using microPython on an ESP32, probably with a touch screen.

Nice! With this 16A single-channel one you don't even need a hub.

www.amazon.com

Shelly 1 One PM Relay Switch, UL Certified, WiFi Smart Home Automation, Compatible with Alexa & Google Home, iOS Android App, No Hub Required, Wireless Light Switch, Smart Appliances Gadgets (4) - - Amazon.com

Shelly 1 One PM Relay Switch, UL Certified, WiFi Smart Home Automation, Compatible with Alexa & Google Home, iOS Android App, No Hub Required, Wireless Light Switch, Smart Appliances Gadgets (4) - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Only potential downside I see is a somewhat similar-looking 10A 2-channel device has this in the Q&A section, so these might not be good for larger 12V loads like tank heat pads or DC kitchen appliances.

What is the operating temperature? I would like to run this in 120-130 degree F environment.
Answer: answer is no, there is a thermal overload on it. When it gets hot it turns off to protect the device. solution would be to put some where it can stay cool, and run a switch loop.
By M. Ogden on September 16, 2021

Answer: 160 deg F. They run hot and burn easy when inside an enclosure

Cheers.

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tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 30, 2021

Pajarojo said:
I'm totally new to this, only googled it after reading your first post... but looks interesting. How would the control panels look exactly? Based on your description of running cat5 to each panel, I'm guessing you'd be using a PoE ESP32 board like this one and then somehow wire your momentary switches to that PoE board? (I haven't gotten far enough to figure out how to wire the switches).
And then the cat5 cables would be routed to a networking switch with another ESP32 board connected to a relay board like this one?

Sorry - total noob here. But you've piqued my interest!

No PoE needed.
No network needed.

NOTE: Be careful, some relay boards require a 5 volt signal. ESP's do 3.3 volts so they will not trigger a board the needs a 5 volt signal. There's ways around that but just get the right board to start with or use a Arduino. They do 5 volts. Personally I like ESP's

I'd keet it simple. All I would be doing is triggering the ESP inputs by sending a ground signal by pressing the switch. Each "new" ground signal would trigger a change of state of the relay.

I'd just use cat 5 as regular wire. I have a 1000 foot roll here. Cat "anything" would work as long as the wires are color coded. The real advantage is that you get 8 wires in one run and since the volts / amps are so small, the small gauge cat wire would be perfect. I'd just strip and solder to the switches. There's 8 wires in a cat 5 so each switch would get one wire and they'd all be connected together to one ground (to the body). A blank cover plate or some thin wood with holes drilled would work for a mounting plate.

I'd use simple normally open switches like these:

Color coding like that might be nice to keep from having to label the panels. You'd quickly learn what each color did. I don't see ever needing more than 8 switches but who knows.

Personally, I'd limit it to just my 12 volt stuff since I only have to control the inverter on or off. That would keep the A/C current away from any 12 volt stuff. I would just switch the 12 volts to the inverter with the ESP and one of the relays.

One switch could turn on or off multiple relays. You'd just write it into the code.

For instance:

Blue switch controls "front lights'
Green switch controls "rear lights"
Black switch controls "both front and rear together".
Red switch turns all the lights off and turns on the TV.
Yellow turns the outside lights off after 5 minutes

Whatever you wanted it to do. If you haven't played with Arduino and micro controllers, there would be a learning curve

.

You have to start small with blink. I remember when my first LED blinked. WOW I was excited LOL!

Download Arduino and get a ESP8266 to play with. YouTube is your friend.

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tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 30, 2021

orton said:
.........I hate TV............We all have different requirements.....

No TV?? What do you do to get pissed off?

The only two things I wired so that I can control them from more than one location is the LED strip lights and the MaxAir fan. Like I said the LED's can be controlled from 4 locations. That took some wire! Old school works too.

tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 30, 2021

brío said:
I am planning on writing a central controller using microPython on an ESP32, probably with a touch screen.

The ESP32 has touch inputs too. I'm thinking 8????? I wonder how touch on the ESP would work in a van? Maybe the fact it was going down the road might make weird things happen. Maybe a light show???

brío

· #14 · Sep 30, 2021

There is also code around to emulate in microPython the "Magic Home" protocol that is commonly used for LED-strip controllers such as this one:

so it is easy to control color LED strips.

Pajarojo

· #15 · Sep 30, 2021 (Edited)

tngw1500se said:
i'd just use cat 5 as regular wire. I have a 1000 foot roll here. Cat "anything" would work as long as the wires are color coded.

Ah! I see. Yeah, I too have a bunch of Cat5 around back from wiring my house so now you've set the gears turning in my head 🤣 . Thanks for the thorough response.

tngw1500se said:
NOTE: Be careful, some relay boards require a 5 volt signal. ESP's do 3.3 volts so they will not trigger a board the needs a 5 volt signal. There's ways around that but just get the right board to start with or use a Arduino. They do 5 volts. Personally I like ESP's

Thanks for mentioning this.... would have tripped me up. Looks like the 3.3v relay modules are pretty few and far between but I found one on banggood that looks like it could work. Otherwise one of these would need to run between the ESP32's GPIO pins and the relay module it would seem.

tngw1500se

Discussion Starter · #16 · Oct 1, 2021 (Edited)

Pajarojo said:
.......... Looks like the 3.3v relay modules are pretty few and far between but I found one on banggood that looks like it could work. Otherwise one of these would need to run between the ESP32's GPIO pins and the relay module it would seem.

Correct

These look interesting since they are 12 volt and low trigger.

https://smile.amazon.com/Channel-Op...s=3.3+relay+board&qid=1633095384&sr=8-12&th=1

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sYfte

· #17 · Oct 1, 2021

It's not that hard to make your own. I have a bunch of 5V/24V relays/mosfets that I drive with Teensys. Very simple optocoupler setup.

Pajarojo

· #18 · Oct 1, 2021

sYfte said:
It's not that hard to make your own. I have a bunch of 5V/24V relays/mosfets that I drive with Teensys. Very simple optocoupler setup.

Mind sharing a link or brief 'howto' on this? there are a few instances where I'd like to use a higher amperage relay and those seem to all require a 12v signal.

sYfte

· #19 · Oct 1, 2021

Here's a quick diagram. In my setup, the 3.3V is just a Teensy pin going to HIGH. If the load is 24V, then you could get away with just using the mosfet. I probably wouldn't put more than half an amp through one without a heatsink (they support 49A).

Rectangle Slope Font Line Parallel

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LostInWoods

· #20 · Oct 1, 2021

Pajarojo said:
Mind sharing a link or brief 'howto' on this? there are a few instances where I'd like to use a higher amperage relay and those seem to all require a 12v signal.

You could use something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M0E6SQM if you just need a few. It looks like each one takes a 3V/3mA output signal from ESP32 (or whatever) to turn on the LED in the opto transistor driving the relay coil. You may need an external power supply to drive the coil power on this, as each the spec says each relay coil needs 65 mA when activated. If this relay (10A/30VDC) will suffice for you, great, else you could use the relay to trigger the coil of another relay running off 12V with contacts rated for whatever your load is.

Another option would be a simple opto-coupled breakout board like SparkFun Opto-isolator Breakout - BOB-09118 - SparkFun Electronics, which you can use to drive a 12V relay coil, but you really should put a zener or TVS across the coil to limit inductive kickback voltage, else you can easily blow up the transistor driving the coil. This protection should already be built into the boards with relays.

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