[kenryan]

Advantage 1: Visibility
There are a lot of things that should be monitored, but generally aren't. Is your freezer cold enough? Are your undercarriage water tanks too cold? Are your shore power cord and TV antenna stowed before you drive away? All hatches closed? Is the temperature rise across your Espar as expected? Is everything set properly when you leave for a day hike?...

Advantage 2: Vigilance
Once you have all of the above available somewhere, who is going to watch it all? Did anybody notice that the battery isn't charging? That the waste tanks were getting full? That the A/C is cycling abnormally?.... Having automatic setpoints on such things is invaluable.

Advantage 3: Convenience
You settle into the driver's seat and put on your belt and then realize you left the ceiling fan open -- Can you fix it from your seat? Sitting down to watch TV -- set all those nice LED lights all over the van to an appropriate setting without scurrying around. etc...

Advantage 5: Automation
Set thermostat appropriately for bedtime, based on outside temperature and time of year. Define modes for "living", "sleeping", "away", "storage" and get them right every time. Power up/down subsystems as needed in order to conserver battery. Modify such behavior depending on battery level. Manage charging behavior depending on more than simple SOC. Automatically shut off inverter when it hasn't been used recently. Automatically shut down systems when faults detected,,,

Advantage 6: Consistency
Rather than learning a dozen random user interfaces for various systems, they can be presented to the user in a consistent, easy to learn manner.

Yes, I understand that you currently get by without any of this, and you are perfectly capable of doing most of it manually. But it is silly to argue that none of it has value. And, many traveling companions have no interest in understanding enough about, say, lithium battery charging to be prepared to know how to best manage it by hand.


This is a legitimate point, and one that is often overlooked. But, the kind of systems being discussed here use distributed controls that eliminate single point failures. This is what projects like ESPhome are all about.

Thanks @brío for the intelligent answer. I do now have a better understanding of what might motivate someone to install something like this.

 

[gregoryx]

Advantage 1: Visibility
There are a lot of things that should be monitored, but generally aren't. Is your freezer cold enough? Are your undercarriage water tanks too cold? Are your shore power cord and TV antenna stowed before you drive away? All hatches closed? Is the temperature rise across your Espar as expected? Is everything set properly when you leave for a day hike?...

Advantage 2: Vigilance
Once you have all of the above available somewhere, who is going to watch it all? Did anybody notice that the battery isn't charging? That the waste tanks were getting full? That the A/C is cycling abnormally?.... Having automatic setpoints on such things is invaluable.

Advantage 3: Convenience
You settle into the driver's seat and put on your belt and then realize you left the ceiling fan open -- Can you fix it from your seat? Sitting down to watch TV -- set all those nice LED lights all over the van to an appropriate setting without scurrying around. etc...

Advantage 4: Automation
Set thermostat appropriately for bedtime, based on outside temperature and time of year. Define modes for "living", "sleeping", "away", "storage" and get them right every time. Power up/down subsystems as needed in order to conserver battery. Modify such behavior depending on battery level. Manage charging behavior depending on more than simple SOC. Automatically shut off inverter when it hasn't been used recently. Automatically shut down systems when faults detected,,,

Advantage 5: Consistency
Rather than learning a dozen random user interfaces for various systems, they can be presented to the user in a consistent, easy to learn manner.

Yes, I understand that you currently get by without any of this, and you are perfectly capable of doing most of it manually. But it is silly to argue that none of it has value. And, many traveling companions have no interest in understanding enough about, say, lithium battery charging to be prepared to know how to best manage it by hand.


This is a legitimate point, and one that is often overlooked. But, the kind of systems being discussed here use distributed controls that eliminate single point failures. This is what projects like ESPhome are all about.

Very well articulated, @brío .

The one thing I'd add is that I'd like remote capability. And that my preference is all the standard functions work locally as if there is NO advanced features; the advanced features are present to take-over or augment local use depending what is required.

An example from a year ago: my son and his wife were out on one of the early voyages with the new rig and something wasn't working right with the inverter. It wasn't clear what was wrong, just that it appeared to be working but wasn't working to power the stove... or something like that. After asking him a couple questions, I just said, "hold on, I'll be home in a minute." From home, I got into the system and checked settings then re-uploaded the inverter config and restarted it. Everything back up as it should be. Hasn't ever happened since - might have been faulty software (long since upgraded) or just random stuff being random. But so cool to be able to say, "hold on and I'll take care of it."

I am able to do this sort of stuff with most of the electrical and electronic devices in our house, condo, and office. I'd like to be able to do it in the van - but with it not being evident at all from inside the van. Inside the van, a switch is a switch and it should work as expected. But I should be able to remotely (or programmatically) flip said switch on or off as well.

All the lights and thermostats and AV gear and that sort of stuff work without any automation at our house. AND they are capable of automation. This allows not just "turn things off" but over time to evolve appropriate "turn things off IF this" variations. Clearly, that's less likely needed in a van. But I'd rather intelligent programming say that if the temp drops too low, turn on the tank and battery heaters. Maybe even turn on the space heater - depending on conditions.

 

[sYfte]

This thread is not the place to discuss the pros/cons of automation.

 

[sYfte]

@Tuckie Cruise-N-Comfort

I specifically requested the dumbest possible setup. I think they're working on a panel of some kind but I was very adamant with Chris that I'd prefer 'bare wires'. It's pretty simple, the 'Temperature Control' is just a temperature activated relay. It came with one of the capillary tube based ones, which I've temporarily replaced with some cheap programmable temperature relay from Amazon.

 

[sYfte]

MaxFan - This is the circuit diagram for the RJ-45 connected 6 button panel. If this doesn't make sense to you, well it doesn't make sense to me either. I recreated this exact setup with relays where the membrane button contacts were. Simulated finger presses if you will; 50ms is all you need.

 

[brío]

On my upcoming build, I am thinking of rewiring the MaxFan for continuous PWM control. One channel from one of these should do it:

Amazon.com

The Shelly stuff is all ESP-based, and plays nicely with Home Assistant.

 

[Sparky961]

This thread is not the place to discuss the pros/cons of automation.

I was wondering how long it would take before people started taking it that direction. When it happened to me a while back it caused me to post a lot less overall here, and of much less technical nature. An unfortunate loss for many, as I've done some very interesting things.

 

[Cdnbiker]

I've got a basic home assistant setup in my van, glad to hear others are on the same program, a couple of the key components

- GL-AR750 (USB powered Travel Router) - this maintains a wifi network in the van for different components to connect to, it also remembers external wifi connections and can bridge to them, so at work/home/etc it auto connects and the van is 'online'

- Raspberry Pi - runs home assistant, connects via USB to the BMS (JBD based with serial adapter) and to MPP Solar (MPP 1012LV) so it can log all the parameters of the battery (cell voltages, current, temperatures), as well as solar power, SOC, etc. I also pay the $5 a month for Nabu Casa so anytime the van connects I can see all the parameters and control things.

- ESPHome switches, temperature monitors, displays

- MaxFan - still sitting in the garage but I'll take a closer look at that diagram in a month or two when it warms up and I'm ready to install it, I'll probably want to setup some logic to crank the fan up when it gets too hot in the summer

I've started wiring all my lights through ESP based smart switches that are buried then I can put a switch anywhere I want (we often switch the van from camping, to daily driver, to mountain bike shuttle machine) so it's nice to be able to move things around easily without rewiring

 

[Sparky961]

What are some options for variable speed control of fans via microcontroller? Mine is [email protected], full speed. The idea to automate it comes and goes for me with the seasons, but the season where it's more important is coming soon!

Lower cost gets more points. 😉

 

[Cdnbiker]

I did a custom PCB with a 4 channels of control (FETs attached to GPIO of a ESP8266), I bought the ESP boards from Aliexpress (Lolin official store) $4USD each, 5 PCBs assembled and shipped was $64USD so $13 each for the PCB

The PCB has a D Pak footprint for the MOSFET, I used IRLR7843 which is rated to 30V and > 100A (in practice just limited to power dissipation so... 4 milli-ohm Rdson at 11A makes 0.5W if you continuously did 11A through it) I think that would work for your fan

There are also these kind of things, but I don't think those relays are rated for PWM type use (not 100% sure on this)

Relay Shield — WEMOS documentation

 

[brío]

What are some options for variable speed control of fans via microcontroller? Mine is [email protected], full speed. The idea to automate it comes and goes for me with the seasons, but the season where it's more important is coming soon!

Hm. 11A is more than I was guessing. Too much for the Shelly device I referenced.

This looks like it would work:

Amazon.com

 

[Tuckie]

@Tuckie Cruise-N-Comfort

Thanks! Still not quite sure how the evaporator controller and thermostat controller translates to a pinout/interface, so I hope you will share your endeavors as you progress. I plan to build out an esphome-based climate system with fan speed control (including the outside fans in parallel/series config).

MaxFan - This is the circuit diagram for the RJ-45 connected 6 button panel.

This looks much more straightforward, I was hoping for a bit more smarts there as far feedback, but what can you do I did find a similar attempt at controlling it here:

What are some options for variable speed control of fans via microcontroller?

I was really hoping that this was going to work for you, but it looks like it can't quite handle the load. As an aside, if anyone hasn't heard of m5stack, I highly recommend it for adding a bit more polish to your esp32-based projects if they happen to sell the pieces you're looking for. I used their rs485 module to make dead-simple adapter for converting a dmx light into a wireless esphome-based smart light.

On the more general automation front: some ideas I have knocking around:

• automatic winterization (compressed air)
• automatic water filling (using a nmea2000 seelevel)
• freeze protect with hydronic heat (multiple thermocouples on key systems)
• humidity regulation with maxxfan and ac
• kitchen fumes with particulate sensor and maxxfan
• automatic shutdown of non-essential systems based on battery level (home assistant can handle the modbus interface with victron)
• water/hydronic heat electric dump load when batteries are topped up and there is still sun in the sky
• bluetooth proximity-based system wake

A goal of the system for me is a simplification of the user interface. With home assistant I can create that single pane of glass of all parts of the system, and prevent the wall full of displays (aka basket of remotes).

 

[Sparky961]

I started out with a screen (RPi) and eventually decided that it was too much hassle. Pretty much everything I have control over and that can be displayed is now accessed through my smart phone using an MQTT app. The app is just one I downloaded and stuck with after trying a few. It doesn't suit my needs 100%, but it was very low effort and swapping in some other interface in the future is very easy.

[CLICK THUMBNAIL FOR FULL SIZE]

It changes occasionally, but that's my current setup. Simple, as I like it.

 

[whitemage25]

Do you already have the Espar? If not you might want to consider a Chinese Diesel Heater and an Afterburner controller, it’s open source nature might make it easier to integrate.

I have been investigating similar things but for a different reason. I am looking into using CANBUS SAE J1939 or Nema 2000 for automation but also so that I can have multiple switch panels connected via low voltage data all controlling the same equipment. The scenario of wanting to turn the outside lights on from the bed or having a panic button that turns all the exterior lights on at once seems to be handy.

 

[brío]

I have been investigating similar things but for a different reason. I am looking into using CANBUS SAE J1939 or Nema 2000 for automation but also so that I can have multiple switch panels connected via low voltage data all controlling the same equipment. The scenario of wanting to turn the outside lights on from the bed or having a panic button that turns all the exterior lights on at once seems to be handy.

ESPhome makes all such projects trivial. You can use wires if you like, but WiFI is living the dream. It took me some time to come over to the belief that waves were as good as wires, but I got there. ESPhome is amazing. Even more so when paired with HomeAssistant.

 

[sYfte]

ESPhome makes all such projects trivial.

I looked into it. It looks pretty good. As a package, 100% not for me. I may use some of their sensor code though.

 

[Sparky961]

Now we just need to perfect wireless power and we're set!

Yes, I know batteries are a possibility, but no - I'm not going down that road for multiple nodes in a control system.

Maybe micro-atomics...

 

[brío]

Now we just need to perfect wireless power and we're set!

Yes, I know batteries are a possibility, but no - I'm not going down that road for multiple nodes in a control system.

Maybe micro-atomics...

My intention is to run regulated 5VDC power feeds throughout the van, just as we do with 12VDC. Of course 12V-5V buck converters are also trivial.

I also intend to deploy the nodes in a way that is robust to central failures. I am treating HomeAssistant as icing, not the cake.

 

[Sparky961]

My intention is to run regulated 5VDC power feeds throughout the van, just as we do with 12VDC. Of course 12V-5V buck converters are also trivial.

I also intend to deploy the nodes in a way that is robust to central failures. I am treating HomeAssistant as icing, not the cake.

But the question then remains, since power needs to be run to each module, why not communication bus wires too?

 

[brío]

But the question then remains, since power needs to be run to each module, why not communication bus wires too?

There is no compelling argument against a hardwired LAN. For many years, I was strongly in the "use wires whenever possible" camp. But, confronting the practical realities of my upcoming build, combined with real-world experience with ESPHome has caused me to reevaluate. I am actually kind of surprised that my position has changed on something that I once thought was totally obvious, but it has. If I were designing some closed system that I believed would rarely change (e.g, an HVAC system in a large building) I would still tend to prefer wire. But, all of my vans have proven to be open-ended experiments, and that tips the balance for me.

This is not an issue that I feel like proselytizing about -- there are arguments both ways. But here are what I see as the arguments for wireless:

--WIreless technology, and WiFi in particular, has become VERY robust, due to its wide deployment in the consumer world. The likelihood of serious performance or reliability issues in machine-to-machine applications has gotten very low.
--Wireless is likely to be more robust, not less, in a mobile environment, since there is nothing physical to break (to speak of). And, most problems can be debugged without often-difficult physical access. Of course, wired LANs can be made arbitrarily reliable, but doing so is neither easy nor inexpensive. I have no problem with folks who enjoy this challenge, but do not underestimate it.
--Comparing LAN wiring with power wiring is fair, but the fairness depends on the choice of LAN topology. Most wired LANs use star topologies for bandwidth and maintainability reasons. Such topologies are a lot more complex than a simple electrical bus. The historical exceptions, such as RS-485, have many limitations and tend to be difficult to scale. This, of course, leads to CANbus. There are very good reasons why the automotive industry has gone this route. It is a true distributed daisy-chain network and is indeed on the same order of complexity as power wiring. If you are prepared for all of the complexity of going to a CANbus-based system, then I have no quibble with it. Be prepared for a science experiment, though. And make sure that the wiring is very robust, since every inch of it is a potential point of failure.
--Extensibility: This is probably the thing that tipped the balance for me. With a wireless lan, slapping in a new node is a casual project, anywhere power is available. For example, deciding to put a new light switch somewhere you overlooked is trivial. Putting a temperature sensor on your under-chassis tanks--no problem. If your style is to design/build/walk-away, this doesn't apply. But, that is not my style at all.
--Maintainability: The thing that won me over to ESPhome in particular was the seamless way they handle OTA updates. Once ESP is running on a node, you never have to plug it into a computer again. Remote updating is like falling off a log. You can add features from the comfort of your living room. Yes, this could in principle be done with CANbus etc, but actually doing it with hobbyist MPUs would be quite a project as far as I can see.
--Hardware simplicity: The existence of SOC processors with on-chip WiFi an Bluetooth (such as the ESP32) means that simple nodes can be almost unbelievably simple from a hardware perspective. And simple means reliable. Again, not a show-stopper, but I have found working with such MPUs to be incredibly pleasant and productive,

Again, I am not really trying to convince anybody here--I will leave it to someone else to develop the list of advantages of wired LANs. But I did want to lay out the arguments that led to my conversion on this point.