Holy cow. I cannot find the wiring to add on to the Upfitter Switches. Has anyone found the wires that the Upfitter Switches supply power to? I've read the Body and Equipment Mounting Manual, the useless Owners Manual, and I can't find the leads. Page 119 of BEMM shows the C33-H Connector as a part of the Upfitter Switches and page 124 says "Auxiliary switch output is found in Connector C33-H under the driver's seat, shown in Figure E189517." I cannot find that connector under the seat (which is completely full with the two AGM batteries). How in the heck am I supposed to add on if I can't FIND THE FREAKING WIRES!!!
Upfitter Switch Wiring
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Are the batteries inside the space shown in Figure E189517, and maybe hiding the connector?
Well, I found them. E189517 is what I had been basing most of my search off of. Here's what I've worked out. In that picture, the Upfitter Switch plug as shown in Purple, was barried under the 3 heavy (0 AWG?) wires, and all of the bundles going forward to the vehicle, engine, inverter, etc.
1) The upfitter switch wires do end up in a square, four pin connector (pg 119 C33-H). I varified this by hooking a voltmeter up, to one pin at a time and cycling the upfitter switches on and off. Confirmed, ~12VDC in accordance with the switch. 1=Yellow, 2=Green/Brown, 3=Purple/Blue, 4-Brown. I'll go back and edit this post later tonight with a picture.
2) In E189517, you see two other plugs, in the forward part of the battery compartment that are not highlighted (grayed out). The forward most one is C33-E, Vehicle Interface Connector, E189516. This is empty on my way (seems almost like a OBDII test, interface, sensor plug) and relatively easily accessed from the front of the driver's seat with the battery cover off.
3) The other plug, unable to find it in the BEMM, is for the inverter. I traced the wires, and it goes out of the side of the box into the bottom of the parking brake handle cover for the inverter. The inverter is located under the plastic cover at the base of the parking brake handle. All of the snaps are easy to get off and the only scary thing is pulling the cover off of the outlet face (if you look inside once the back of the cover is lifted, you'll see that some low profile snaps slide up the sides of the outlet cover. It sounds like you're breaking plastic, but it's more of a friction holder than an firm snap.).
4) The AUX fuse panel, not shown in the owner's manual at all, is where the 4 20A fuses are located for the upfitter switches. E189518. I had this open and confirmed the fuses were there; haven't done any experimenting yet. Just happy to find the switch outputs and have access.
5) One of the highlights of my day is learning about Customer Connection Points on the driver's left seat base (192338). Holy cow; this is cool. The cap comes off easily and gives you 3, threaded, 60A fused, posts to supply heavier loads than the upfitter switches.
I'll shift from my mobile brain dump (still sitting in the driveway in the dark posting) and ask for some advice from those more experienced that me.
Q: I'm thinking of hooking my House Bank up to the 60A post for charging and putting a simply relay into one of the upfitter switch spots. The van is ON, I flip the switch to close the relay and I get power. The van is OFF, or I flip the switch off to conserve the Van batteries, and I don't have power to the House Bank/Charger.
For those interested: I do have what I would consider a lot done on my conversion. This is my first time building a van, and I have a full time job, so I've been burning a lot of midnight oil.
So far.
1) ~4" hard foam in the window voids, single layer of Reflectix behind the Polypro panels from the factory.
2) Full wrap of the ceiling and upper walls in Reflectix, with some selective spots of Roadkill Sound deadening mat (Dynamat) and 1.5" hard foam. I sprayed foam into the ribs and odd spaces.
3) 2x205A 6V Apex deep cycle batteries (in the process of wiring) behind the driver's seat.
4) 60" oak cabinets with a 48" homemade hard wood counter top and a 48" overhead cabinet.
5) Full size futon mattress with a memory foam mattress topper in an integrated bad platform (mates into the cabinet and it all self-supporting.
6) 50gal polyeth water tank going to a spigot in the counter top and a kitchen sink spray faucet that goes out the door for showers.
7. 48"x60" with a 30" extension drawer that slides the entire rear floor of the van out of the back doors. The 90" part is for our tandem bike. This will make more sense when I post pictures.
8) I've also seen a lot of questions about winter tires. OK Tire Factory got me a set of Nokian WR C Cargo (Hakkapalitta?) tires for $1000 installed...they're highly reviews elsewhere, have the proper load rating, and make the wife and I feel more comfortable. I wasn't happy with the other tire options and the pushback from tire dealers. Hard to find proper tire sizes online as well.
Sorry for the long post; I finally had a moment of euphoria when I find those stupid wires. I wanted to share the success and give an update on the build. I probably broke a bunch of forum etiquette but, hey, I'm excited. Hope to post more soon.
1) The upfitter switch wires do end up in a square, four pin connector (pg 119 C33-H). I varified this by hooking a voltmeter up, to one pin at a time and cycling the upfitter switches on and off. Confirmed, ~12VDC in accordance with the switch. 1=Yellow, 2=Green/Brown, 3=Purple/Blue, 4-Brown. I'll go back and edit this post later tonight with a picture.
2) In E189517, you see two other plugs, in the forward part of the battery compartment that are not highlighted (grayed out). The forward most one is C33-E, Vehicle Interface Connector, E189516. This is empty on my way (seems almost like a OBDII test, interface, sensor plug) and relatively easily accessed from the front of the driver's seat with the battery cover off.
3) The other plug, unable to find it in the BEMM, is for the inverter. I traced the wires, and it goes out of the side of the box into the bottom of the parking brake handle cover for the inverter. The inverter is located under the plastic cover at the base of the parking brake handle. All of the snaps are easy to get off and the only scary thing is pulling the cover off of the outlet face (if you look inside once the back of the cover is lifted, you'll see that some low profile snaps slide up the sides of the outlet cover. It sounds like you're breaking plastic, but it's more of a friction holder than an firm snap.).
4) The AUX fuse panel, not shown in the owner's manual at all, is where the 4 20A fuses are located for the upfitter switches. E189518. I had this open and confirmed the fuses were there; haven't done any experimenting yet. Just happy to find the switch outputs and have access.
5) One of the highlights of my day is learning about Customer Connection Points on the driver's left seat base (192338). Holy cow; this is cool. The cap comes off easily and gives you 3, threaded, 60A fused, posts to supply heavier loads than the upfitter switches.
I'll shift from my mobile brain dump (still sitting in the driveway in the dark posting) and ask for some advice from those more experienced that me.
Q: I'm thinking of hooking my House Bank up to the 60A post for charging and putting a simply relay into one of the upfitter switch spots. The van is ON, I flip the switch to close the relay and I get power. The van is OFF, or I flip the switch off to conserve the Van batteries, and I don't have power to the House Bank/Charger.
For those interested: I do have what I would consider a lot done on my conversion. This is my first time building a van, and I have a full time job, so I've been burning a lot of midnight oil.
So far.
1) ~4" hard foam in the window voids, single layer of Reflectix behind the Polypro panels from the factory.
2) Full wrap of the ceiling and upper walls in Reflectix, with some selective spots of Roadkill Sound deadening mat (Dynamat) and 1.5" hard foam. I sprayed foam into the ribs and odd spaces.
3) 2x205A 6V Apex deep cycle batteries (in the process of wiring) behind the driver's seat.
4) 60" oak cabinets with a 48" homemade hard wood counter top and a 48" overhead cabinet.
5) Full size futon mattress with a memory foam mattress topper in an integrated bad platform (mates into the cabinet and it all self-supporting.
6) 50gal polyeth water tank going to a spigot in the counter top and a kitchen sink spray faucet that goes out the door for showers.
7. 48"x60" with a 30" extension drawer that slides the entire rear floor of the van out of the back doors. The 90" part is for our tandem bike. This will make more sense when I post pictures.
8) I've also seen a lot of questions about winter tires. OK Tire Factory got me a set of Nokian WR C Cargo (Hakkapalitta?) tires for $1000 installed...they're highly reviews elsewhere, have the proper load rating, and make the wife and I feel more comfortable. I wasn't happy with the other tire options and the pushback from tire dealers. Hard to find proper tire sizes online as well.
Sorry for the long post; I finally had a moment of euphoria when I find those stupid wires. I wanted to share the success and give an update on the build. I probably broke a bunch of forum etiquette but, hey, I'm excited. Hope to post more soon.
Moving along pretty quickly for building & riding while working full time simultaneously!
So.......Santana? Co Motion? Other?
Actually a junk $499 Giordano Viaggio off Amazon to see if we could stay married. We've put a fair amount of miles on it and are currently saving up for a Davinci. The Davinci has an Independent Coast System that we both like a lot. Wifey has a bad knee and we both like to keep the comms to a minimum; so, the only thing she cares about is when I "COAST" real quick and jam her knee. I also like the idea of keeping the pace moving as we stretch, drink, adjust individually.
Ya'll let me know if you're near Portland; happy to share ideas or ice cream. We're planning to head to Bend this week for a 5 day trip.
Another note on the Customer Connection Points on the left side of the Driver's Seat Base: They're hot all the time. I checked them with the key off (in my hand) and they showed ~12VDC. I need to read the BEMM again; I thought that they were ignition ON only. Guess that means that I need a relay powered by my Upfitter Switch to isolate the Van batteries. Has anyone done this? Recommendations for the relay?
Also: I'm thinking that I won't need too heavy of wire to connect from the Customer Connection Point to the House Bank because it's already limited by a 60A fuse under the seat. Thoughts?
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Max. I also ordered the Uplifter switches, (if I remember right, there are 4 right?) I Plan on wiring my HID lights, strobes, sirens, and Dash cam to them. So do you have to remove the Drivers seat to get to the batteries if so how easy was that to do? I ordered duel batteries. And as far as the 4 pin connector. Guessing Female connectors??? So what are you using and or how are you wiring to the connector?? Is this something you get from The Dealer or how are you making the connection? Also, I just ordered a Partition and Wing kit from Adrian Steel. So I figure accessing the batteries sound like a pain.
I appreciate your tips so far and look forward to your tips- Thanks
I appreciate your tips so far and look forward to your tips- Thanks
Those Customer Connection Points are a pleasant surprise that none of us were aware of.
I'm sure Orton is already figuring out how to best use them for his 1000 watt inverter.
We used to go to the Midwest Tandem Rallies when the kids were young. We still have the Santana Rio and Co Motion Triplet (the first one they ever built) but neither sees much use these days. I know the Davinci well, so several couples that wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm sure Orton is already figuring out how to best use them for his 1000 watt inverter.
We used to go to the Midwest Tandem Rallies when the kids were young. We still have the Santana Rio and Co Motion Triplet (the first one they ever built) but neither sees much use these days. I know the Davinci well, so several couples that wouldn't have it any other way.
Packer: Good news on most of the questions.
1. You don't have to remove the batteries to access the wiring...but you might have a rum & coke before you start. It's tight, and frustrating.
2. The wires run into a 4 tab female connector. Going to work on building the male ends/connector today.
3. Check the BEMM because I think that there are two upfitter wires that also "passthrough" the body and end up between the Power Steering & Brake fluid reservoirs. I found that connector, but don't have a use for it at the moment.
4. Getting to the batteries was easy, and I was very surprised to see that they were AGM. I think 760CCA? I took a picture to upload as well; however, I'm running out the door now.
Is there one heavy guage wire that feeds a fuse block for the three 60 amp terminals on the side of the driver's seat?
I use a two inverter design electrical system. One is a pure sine 1000 watt "house" inverter/charger/transfer switch and the second a pure sine 1000 watt "vehicle" inverter. The "vehicle" inverter is used to heat water or heat air or supply 120 volt "shore power" with engine running. The "shore power" is used to power the "house" inverter for charging. It also powers the refrigerator with engine running. The "house" inverter has a 3 stage bulk, absorb, float charger programmable to provide the correct charge profile for my 255 amp-hr AGM battery. Do not want to charge directly from the alternator.
So the reason for the question is how do I provide the 12 volt power for the "vehicle" inverter from the Transit. If there is one wire I can use that, add a fuse and remove the three 60 amp terminals/fuses.
I use a two inverter design electrical system. One is a pure sine 1000 watt "house" inverter/charger/transfer switch and the second a pure sine 1000 watt "vehicle" inverter. The "vehicle" inverter is used to heat water or heat air or supply 120 volt "shore power" with engine running. The "shore power" is used to power the "house" inverter for charging. It also powers the refrigerator with engine running. The "house" inverter has a 3 stage bulk, absorb, float charger programmable to provide the correct charge profile for my 255 amp-hr AGM battery. Do not want to charge directly from the alternator.
So the reason for the question is how do I provide the 12 volt power for the "vehicle" inverter from the Transit. If there is one wire I can use that, add a fuse and remove the three 60 amp terminals/fuses.
The inverter I am considering is a Cotek SK1000-112. Installation instructions specify 150 amp fuse and # 2 AWG wire size for 2-6' wire length. The inverter will be mounted directly behind driver's seat so will be less than 6' from Transit batteries.
Anyone have any experience with this brand?
There will be a selector switch to limit loads to one item at a time. Loads are approx. 640 watts for the charger & refrigerator, 675 watts for the water heater and 750 watts for the air heater.
So yeah, if one caqble is supplying all three 60 amp circuits you're all set!
If it's going to be that simple I may get a 1000 watter as well so I can run electric heat while on the road.
I know you plan on idleingfor charging, do you think at normal idle the hd alternator will keep up with the current draw? If so I can think of all kinds of short duration uses for things that were way to power hungry for my 180 watt inverter.
If it's going to be that simple I may get a 1000 watter as well so I can run electric heat while on the road.
I know you plan on idleingfor charging, do you think at normal idle the hd alternator will keep up with the current draw? If so I can think of all kinds of short duration uses for things that were way to power hungry for my 180 watt inverter.
What I hope is there is one wire supplying the bank of 3 fuses for the three 60 amp circuits. Remove the 3 fuses and install one larger fuse. I do not need any other Transit 12 volt connections for the conversion.
The "vehicle" inverter is a backup source of 120 volt power for charging. With the 205 watt solar panel & MPPT solar charger I went for over a year without using either real shore power or the 120 volt output from the "vehicle" inverter for charging. Charging from "vehicle" inverter is a seldom used "emergency" backup. In the Sprinter I did turn on the "vehicle" inverter so refrigerator ran on 120v AC while driving. Then all of the solar output is used for charging.
My primary reasons for this design was the fear of connecting into the Sprinter fragile electrical system and the desire to always charge with a 3 stage smart charger. The house 12 volt electrical system was independent of the Sprinter. It was not grounded to the chassis. Two wires to all loads.
I would post by electrical diagram here but that is not allowed.
Maxcat, I'm just up the road from you in Hood River. It looks like your van is about identical to the one I ordered and I'm also configuring mine to haul multiple bikes (though not tandem) and camping, as I do a lot of bike racing with my kids. I'd love to check out your rig some time. I was told mine would be built next week, but judging from the VIN (50032) I'm many weeks away. Thanks for the info on the wiring!
Answers, then Questions:
1. I've traced what I believe to be all of the heavy gauge alternator/starter/battery wires on the van, spent some time under the chassis yesterday tracing them out. Ultimately, there is one wire (from the starter/alternator circuit) that enters the cabin floor right under the shifter area. This wire runs under my flooring and into the battery compartment mid-paking brake handle. That one alternator wire goes into a fuse block on the passenger side of hte Aux Fuse Panel in the rear of the Driver's Seat Base. The first part of the block separates out into two more heavy red wires and goes back out of the block, to each battery. The battery grounds go from front, to read, then to the chassis deep under the base.
2. The fuse block fed by the alternator cable runs across the top/back of the Aux Fuse Panel and powers the rest of the Pre-Fuse Box (p 195 in my manual). Note: the picture is upside down. In other words; when you're kneeling behind the driver's seat facing forward and you crane your head down into the battery compartment upside down...this is literally what you'll see. The bottom of this picture is at the top of the battery compartment. The alternator feeds into post 1, then splits out. Again, I'll work on pictures soon, I just don't have time right now as I'm scrambling to finish this phase before out trip tomorrow night.
3. I'll check on which wires could be pulled or moved to make a more direct ~180A circuit. As an idea; could you run a wire out of each CCP into a bus block and end up with a 3x60A input to a single 180A output? I'm sure someone will educate me as to why that's a horrible idea...but I wanted to throw it out there.
Questions:
1. As for charging: Is the van has AGM batteries installed, why not just charge off of them to begin with. I don't know everything about batteries, but I have certainly read to use an AGM charger for AGM batteries...so why not use the AGM battery supply/charging circuit from Ford and let it charge all 4 batteries (2x206Ah 6V as the house bank, as well). ?
2. Another idea: If the CCPs are 12V 60A, that's 720 watts...why not run an inverter right from the CCP?
3. Even dummer questions (Remember, I've never done this. Hopefully, I'm supplying enough info from my first go that I'm paying it forward). Is the 12V 20A = 240W Upfitter Switch power not enough to charge the house bank? This would be IDEAL... Run a wire from the C33-H connector (see below) directly to the house bank, connect the 2x6V in series with a big wire, then a ground back to the Van Battery Compartment...that'd give me 240W of Fused, Relay Controlled, Upfitter Switch controlled, Ignition Only, charging power. The AGM Van batteries would be charging the AGM House batteries while the van is running and all sorts of things would keep that circuit open when the van is off. I'm speaking outside of my experience level, but did Ford make this easier for us than we expected? Do we really need all of that additional wiz-bang?
As for making the connections into the C33-H: I got some 14 AWG Male Tab Wire Connectors this morning and they fit perfectly into the C-33H connector slots. I plan to run my upfitter switch loads from that connector, using 4 of these tabs and I'll wrap or package the C33-H when I put all of that compartment back together once in final configuration.
For the trap shooters out there: PULL! Shoot away!
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