The electrical guts of the House system

45697 Views 92 Replies 22 Participants Last post by Airedrifter, Feb 1, 2018

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · Jan 12, 2015

I'm building a electrical system for the Camper Van.

Here's the gist:

2 house batteries -- 125 AH ea

2 vehicle batteries -- 76 AH ea

1100/2200 Watt inverter

Ctek battery system with alternator charging of all 4 batteries and shore power charging of all 4 batteries

Bypass for charging vehicle batteries from house batteries, in emerg...

fuse panel for extra lights, usb charges, 12 vlt aux ports,

vlt meters for each bank

Here's the photo of the most of the parts without the house batteries.

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Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #21 · Jan 20, 2015 (Edited)

4

The electrical guts are done and installed.

What did I get out of it?

Well, now I have two banks of batteries (400 ah total) that can be charged by AC through shore power (notice the two photos, one with a hole drilled in the outside wall of the van and one showing the outside after the shore plug has been installed), they all can be charged via the 220 amp alternator, they all can be charged by solar (all I need is some solar panels, the controller is installed), and the power of each bank can be shared to start the vehicle or run the house system as necessary and appropriate.

I have a 1100 watt inverter and a transfer switch that will switch either the shore power, the preferred source, or the inverter, to all the AC outlets in the van.

I have six circuits ready for switches. These will be additional interior lights, a fan, and other 12vlt needs. The AC will be used for the microwave and other 110vlt needs.

The volt meters in the photos... the top meter is the voltage of the van stater batteries and the lower meter is the voltage of the house battery bank.

Now on to the rack system and the curtains...

One more, my working schematic.

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BigDogAdventures

· #22 · Jan 23, 2015 (Edited)

2

Your are a genius----------------wish I had the smarts to even understand all what you did.
Maybe it will soak in after several readings.
Would love to have this in my van.
I've got just the place for more batteries and all those electrical gizmo's under the couch/bed combo I built right behind the drivers seat. It would be perfect.
I'm just using all that space for storage of camping stuff now.

Thanks !!!
Mark

Here's the frame work of my bed/couch combo before I finished it out-----you can see---plenty of room. It might seem I had all this planned ahead. But I have to say it was just dumb luck.
Bringing the battery cables into this area will be very simple and easy.

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Donross

· #23 · Jan 25, 2015

Find attach below the .totally portable only connection to the vehicule is via the charger 7.2 amps.It consist of the following.2 AGM Rolls Surette 85 AH 12 volts.The plus cable zero size go in a 400 amps fuse.plus cable go to a marine selector switch 600 amps that give the possibility of one or both batteries at the same time.i have opted for a 5000 watts inverter that give 3 outlet of 110V 15 amps.

The whole thing is contain in a 24 inch by 24 inch square cabinet that roll in and out of the van when needed via a Magliner Aluminum 26 inches by 7 feet ramp.This unit is also our winter emergency power for the house.

I hope to be able to connect a 300 watts 12 volts inverter to charge the batteries via the 4 electrical switch in the van.

Reactions: 1

KeithW

· #24 · Jan 30, 2015

Airedrifter, I have been following this thread and like the CTEK features. I am wondering about the charging amps while driving and the large house batteries are being charged from the alternator. Do you know how many amps CTEK passes through to well depleted house batteries in this condition? Is there a setting somewhere? I have read the CTEK manual and was unable to find it. I wonder if the answer is that it takes as much power as the alternator can provide, up to CTEK's 80 amp capacity.

Just curious to see if you had run across the answer. I can follow up with CTEK as I get closer to buying this part of the build.

Thanks for taking the time to show what you have done.

KeithW, Milan, IL

orton

· #25 · Jan 30, 2015

KeithW said:
Airedrifter, I have been following this thread and like the CTEK features. I am wondering about the charging amps while driving and the large house batteries are being charged from the alternator. Do you know how many amps CTEK passes through to well depleted house batteries in this condition? Is there a setting somewhere? I have read the CTEK manual and was unable to find it. I wonder if the answer is that it takes as much power as the alternator can provide, up to CTEK's 80 amp capacity.

Just curious to see if you had run across the answer. I can follow up with CTEK as I get closer to buying this part of the build.

Thanks for taking the time to show what you have done.

KeithW, Milan, IL

One of the reasons that I will use a Transit 12 volt system powered pure sine inverter to provide "shore" power while driving is the inverter limits the amount of power used for charging. Draw on alternator is limited by the size of the inverter.
In my case, the sold Sprinter conversion taught me a couple of things. With a 205 watt solar panel and a max. 15 amp MPPT solar controller, I went for over a year without needing to use real shore power or the vehicle supplied "shore" power. Solar kept up with my power usage. Others may need more power tham my conversion. Since I did not use shore power, I will delete the electrical reel that I had on the Sprinter. Shore power will be a simple 3 prong 12/3 extension cord male end hooked under the body below drivers door. I also learned to conserve the house battery by turning on the vehicle inverter while driving. The largest consumer of power in my conversion was the 4 amp refrigerator. With the vehicle "shore" power, the refrigerator would automatically run on the 120 volts AC so all the solar output was available for house battery charging. The Transit will have the same physical size single solar panel but the new one will provide 300 amps instead of 205 amps.

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Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #26 · Jan 30, 2015

KeithW said:
Airedrifter, I have been following this thread and like the CTEK features. I am wondering about the charging amps while driving and the large house batteries are being charged from the alternator. Do you know how many amps CTEK passes through to well depleted house batteries in this condition? Is there a setting somewhere? I have read the CTEK manual and was unable to find it. I wonder if the answer is that it takes as much power as the alternator can provide, up to CTEK's 80 amp capacity.

Just curious to see if you had run across the answer. I can follow up with CTEK as I get closer to buying this part of the build.

Thanks for taking the time to show what you have done.

KeithW, Milan, IL

That's a good question. Ctek implies that the maximum charge is the 80 amp capacity of the Smartpass. Other sources, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjqcOAjT4W4 adds 20 amps from the D250S for a total of 100 amps. The units can incorporate a maximum of 20 amps (240 watts) from a solar source (or any other 12 vlt source). In practice, upon starting, the Ctek watches the alternator charge the starter batteries first and the directs the charge to the house batteries. When solar power or shore power is used (or both), the Ctek charges the house batteries first and then tops off the vehicle batteries.

There are no settings or adjustments anywhere on the Ctek units, just indicator leds showing what's going on.

KeithW

· #27 · Jan 30, 2015

Airedrifter, I had seen the YouTube review of CTEK but missed the reference to 100A. Watching it again led to another video which goes through the functions of the CTEK step by step with varying battery conditions, power usages, etc. It is here – you have to pause the video at each step to take it all in.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN6oF-wj9XQ

Orton, thanks for the comments. I have your wiring diagram (one generation old, I think) and refer to it often as I puzzle my way through this. I am coming to believe that the CTEK will do a good job of managing the power and provide a reasonably rapid recharge of the house battery. I want to keep things simple. It appears the CTEK approach can be out of sight and out of mind in normal use.

I’m thinking the Transit “base” 150 amp alternator and single starter battery will be able to provide as much as the CTEK can process given the normal loads from the Transit, enabling the alternator to recharge a drawn down house battery with two or three hours of driving. (I say this having been unable to find a figure for the normal operating amp requirements of the transit. The Ford chat line was no help. But the dealer service manager said there should be ample reserve for what I described.)

The service manager also said that the dual battery set up is just the equivalent of a larger starter battery and would be of no value to me if I intend to power all the additions from the separate house battery.

We have never used solar. Our past (and planned) use of motorhomes has been either “on the move” every day or two or parked at a source of shore power. I think the 255 amp hour battery Orton is using should cover that. (But I need to get my mind around using an engine hoist to install the battery. That will be a new experience.) If this does not work out in use, I can add solar later, I guess.

Again, thanks for your comments. Let me know if you think I am off track here.

KeithW, Milan, IL

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orton

· #28 · Jan 31, 2015

KeithW said:
(But I need to get my mind around using an engine hoist to install the battery. That will be a new experience.)
KeithW, Milan, IL

Two of us lifted the battery into van and I then slid it into position. Battery was inside Sprinter. Did need to lift it a bit to put it on its support. Not a big problem because you only do it once if you charge it correctly.

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #29 · Jan 31, 2015

KeithW said:
Airedrifter, I...

Again, thanks for your comments. Let me know if you think I am off track here.

KeithW, Milan, IL

I think you're on track.

I've seen the video that you posted, but I've never been able to get the audio working on any of my computers or my smartphone. The mysteries of the Internet...

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #30 · Mar 30, 2015

We took a trip to NC this past weekend.

While we were there, I drove over to see a friend's cabin. He's in the early stages of building an off grid, 1 room, log hut. (It will be real cozy and sweet.) Anyway, when I drove up he was walking back to his truck and was obviously in the middle of some serious timber work.

After the pleasantries and showing me around and me showing him the new van, he turned around left and came back with a big extension cord. It turns out, he had just run out of gas for his generator and needed to drill about 10 more big holes for the timber rail on his loft. He was using a 3/4" right angle drill and a 2" Forstner bit, drilling in soft pine.

He asked, "can it handle that?"

I said, "let's find out."

The inverter got hot. It never shut down, it just got hot to the touch.

My house bank voltage, resting, was 12.68 vlts (before he drilled his holes.) My voltage afterwards? 12.45 vlts. (I didn't start the van.)

Since I installed my system, I haven't touched it and it's only had nominal use. This was certainly the biggest load it has addressed.

I drove back to where we were staying, about a 20 minute drive, and the resting voltage was 12.52 vlts.

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orton

· #31 · Mar 30, 2015

Post # 25 has error. Panel size comment should read "watts" not "amps".

Also lifting the 8D battery into van is a one time occurrence. I just had the battery supplier put it in van. One person can slide the battery into position.

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #32 · Apr 29, 2015

2

Finished up the aux control panel. This will mount in the compartment right over the driver sun visor.

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EddieZ

· #33 · Jun 3, 2015

I've decided to go with the CTEK setup. Well, I'll start with the D250S Dual, and one battery. I want to get a simple setup going with a vent van, then build from there, later.

I think I'll try to get an AGM battery to fit in the second battery location, under the passenger seat. I understand it's crowded in there, but, that shouldn't be so bad. The CTEK unit, and anything else for the system will be outside of the seat pedestal (and, eventually, in a cabinet).

So, I've read that the D250S puts out 20A, and with the Smartpass added, would put out 80A or 100A (not sure which; doesn't really matter). And, I've read that AGM batteries can take 30A or more, charging. Question 1: will the 20A be sufficient for an AGM battery -- the only downside being somewhat longer charging time than would be possible? That is, it won't hurt the battery's service life?

Question 2: When I go to buy a battery, should I stick to something around 100 amp hour (related to 20A from D250S?), or buy higher amp hours if it will fit, and if a decent deal?

Question 3: Are there any other must-have parts that I should get, to have my minimal-functional 12v system?

Thanks

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lkruper

· #34 · Jun 3, 2015

EddieZ said:
...
So, I've read that the D250S puts out 20A, and with the Smartpass added, would put out 80A or 100A (not sure which; doesn't really matter). And, I've read that AGM batteries can take 30A or more, charging. Question 1: will the 20A be sufficient for an AGM battery -- the only downside being somewhat longer charging time than would be possible? That is, it won't hurt the battery's service life?

...

You should read the technical manual that applies to the specific AGM you select. From what I have read a Concorde or Lifeline AGM battery can charge up to 5C. This means that a Lifeline 100 AH battery can be charged at 500 amps! The time this takes (from memory) is something like Amps Used / Charge Amps (in hours) plus 2 hours. So in an extreme example a 100A charge for 50 Amps (at 50% DOD) would take 30 minutes to bulk charge and then another 2 hours to finish.

Also, it appears that the manufacturer does not recommend charging below .2C which would be 20A for a 100 AH battery. So, if you get a bigger battery you need to scale up to match.

Caveat: Double check everything I say on the subject of power

I am still learning.

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #35 · Jun 3, 2015

EddieZ said:
I've decided to go with the CTEK setup. Well, I'll start with the D250S Dual, and one battery. I want to get a simple setup going with a vent van, then build from there, later.

I think I'll try to get an AGM battery to fit in the second battery location, under the passenger seat. I understand it's crowded in there, but, that shouldn't be so bad. The CTEK unit, and anything else for the system will be outside of the seat pedestal (and, eventually, in a cabinet).

So, I've read that the D250S puts out 20A, and with the Smartpass added, would put out 80A or 100A (not sure which; doesn't really matter). And, I've read that AGM batteries can take 30A or more, charging. Question 1: will the 20A be sufficient for an AGM battery -- the only downside being somewhat longer charging time than would be possible? That is, it won't hurt the battery's service life?

Question 2: When I go to buy a battery, should I stick to something around 100 amp hour (related to 20A from D250S?), or buy higher amp hours if it will fit, and if a decent deal?

Question 3: Are there any other must-have parts that I should get, to have my minimal-functional 12v system?

Thanks

I think the D250S would be fine for one battery. It will take longer to charge a discharged battery. (I do think you get 100 amps with the Smartpass)

I'd get the largest capacity battery that will fit but I think you'll find that the Group size (see the chart in the link) will dictate the capacity. Group size is constant through the different manufacturers. I'm don't know the size of the space available under the passenger seat.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/content/product_info/auto_interstate_f.asp

I don't know of any other "must" have parts. I'd get lugged wires to connect the batteries and the Ctek. I'd perhaps get cut off switch to disconnect the house battery. And you're going to need some sort of fused distribution system.

That's what I know or at least what I think I know.

EddieZ

· #36 · Jun 4, 2015

That STUPID battery box!

KeithW said:
First, about the dual batteries picture, Ford has a video on line that shows how to install and remove the batteries. You will be able to see the layout.
Ford, Lincoln or Mercury How-To & Info Videos | Official Ford Owner Site

Geez, I should have looked at the video (go to the page, then find the battery video listed) before getting into the battery box. I was confused by the owner manual, where the pics don't match what I've got -- neither the trim cover, nor the orientation of the terminal cover, etc.

AND, I just don't get how removing those stop bolts at the front of the seat rails actually does anything. I removed them (and the plastic covers), and, pulling up on the seat adjuster, I could not get the seat any further forward than with them in place. I had to remove the 4 seat rail anchor bolts, then tip the seat forward, to gain awkward access to the battery box. What am I missing?

Airedrifter said:
I think the D250S would be fine for one battery. It will take longer to charge a discharged battery. (I do think you get 100 amps with the Smartpass)

I'd get the largest capacity battery that will fit but I think you'll find that the Group size (see the chart in the link) will dictate the capacity. Group size is constant through the different manufacturers. I'm don't know the size of the space available under the passenger seat.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/content/product_info/auto_interstate_f.asp

I don't know of any other "must" have parts. I'd get lugged wires to connect the batteries and the Ctek. I'd perhaps get cut off switch to disconnect the house battery. And you're going to need some sort of fused distribution system.

That's what I know or at least what I think I know.

Thanks. Yes, a fuse box is what I would have missed.

OK, there's no way a second battery will fit in the box with the OEM single battery. The remaining space is only 4 3/4 inches wide. Now that I've seen the Ford video, I see that the dual AGM batteries sit crosswise in the box, rather than front-to-back, as my single battery sits.

So, I guess I'll have to just strap in an AGM, until I have a cabinet made. No sense in even getting a plastic battery box. On the positive side, I will not be limited to a specific battery group size, due to space.

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EddieZ

· #37 · Jun 12, 2015 (Edited)

Just got my Amazon box, with D250S and Blue Sea distrbution fuse block.

(Wow, did you look at the wiring and panel setups shown on the Blue Sea web site? Stuff done by commercial boat builders, with Blue Sea gear -- very impressive.)

Airdrifter, from where did you run the vehicle's + and - connections to the D250S (or Smartpass)? Positive from the battery terminal, or from the 60A connector next to the seat?

I know you could ground at "any" good connection point, but, being close to the battery, anyway, did you run the CTEK gear and house battery neg. to the same ground the vehicle battery uses, or, bolt to the vehicle battery negative lug, or what?

Looking at Blue Sea stuff, they're always talking about circuit breaker or fuse near the battery (marine install), but, I still don't get whether that's a necessity for an RV house battery... seems like overkill.

I didn't get a cutoff switch, yet. I will get around to it, later. I've seen those switches built into a battery lug, which looks tempting.

The D250S has a temperature sensor, and, manual mentions a mount. But, there's no mount. I guess I'm supposed to tape the sensor near the positive house battery terminal.

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Brad

· #38 · Jun 13, 2015 (Edited)

EddieZ said:
Just got my Amazon box, with D250S and Blue Sea distrbution fuse block.

...

Looking at Blue Sea stuff, they're always talking about circuit breaker or fuse near the battery (marine install), but, I still don't get whether that's a necessity for an RV house battery... seems like overkill. ...

Blue Sea makes excellent electrical distribution gear...

The reason it's ideal to fuse closest to the battery is that will afford the greatest protection should a short develop in the circuit. For example, if your fuse was connected to the positive wire three feet away from the battery, that leaves three feet of wire that is unprotected should a short to ground develop, say, due to the cable insulation chafing against grounded metal. Is that a likely occurrence if you take precautions? Probably not. OTOH, if that should happen, an AGM battery with its low internal resistance can source 2,000+ amps (for a brief period of time) and that would be a huge deal and really bad situation.

Blue Sea makes a

(in single and dual fuse options) that hooks right to the battery lug. Pricey, but you can't get a fuse closer to the battery than that!

You can put a disconnect at the battery terminal, but for me that would be inconvenient. Blue Sea makes a line of panel mount battery switches,

.

jethaden

· #39 · Jun 13, 2015

The cheapest place I have found for Blue Sea Systems is http://www.imarineusa.com/ . Amazon tends to have better supply but significantly higher prices.

Airedrifter

Discussion Starter · #40 · Jun 13, 2015

I connected directly to the battery posts. I had the local battery shop make up 00 gage lugged wires with an Anderson plug to use as a disconnect.

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