[987R]

My first post.....

I've been planning a work/play van with seating for 5 (we have 3 kids), high mounted bed, a simple sink setup, and storage in back for work stuff, and mountain bikes.

Test drove the Promaster diesel (felt way underpowered, had to put in a lot of throttle to get it to go, and that lag between shifts would take a bit to get used to). Cargo area was good, though, and seemed to be taller than the Transit.

Test drove the Transit today (EcoBoost). I was quite impressed. Power is great (of course), small steering wheel felt sporty, brakes are solid, handling was decent, and it soaked up the crappy roads infinitely better than my 3/4 ton Dodge truck Seriously, a MUCH better daily driver than my truck.

My hope is to use it as a daily driver, hauling work stuff around to customer sites, along with the monthly 900 mile round trip to remote customers. I'd camp in it for those trips, plus haul our sailboat to mountain lakes with the family for a night or two camping. Kids' softball / soccer tournaments, and bike races too.

So... my questions:

- what do you think about adding a bench seating for 3? Will it be safe? Maybe buy a sprinter bench seat or the Ford one. Lap and shoulder belts for sure.
- I want a diesel, but am leery about the Powerstroke, only because I haven't read too much about it. I like diesels. I mostly like how they should be reliable and go 500,000 miles with decent fuel mileage! I'm not too keen on 17 mpg with the EcoBoost. I get 19-22 with my 6.7L Dodge Cummins.
- What about a layout with a high bed in the far back, sink / open are in the area with the slider, and the 3 bench seats behind that? See picture.
- Not sure about the medium roof. I can stand up in it "raw", but with a finished ceiling, I won't be able to stand up - do I need a high roof, or is crouching tolerable for my application?
- The seat cushion seems a bit short. How are 300+ mile stints in the van? Comfortable?

Going to drive a diesel tomorrow, and look forward to your input. :x

Maybe this layout idea?

 

[alarmist]

Fuel economy makes diesels a good choice for long distance use. I seriously doubt there is money to saved based on longevity in a modern, overcomplicated DEF diesel. I could be wrong though, as my opinion is based on multitudinous Sprinter horror stories.

 

[orton]

- what do you think about adding a bench seating for 3? Will it be safe? Maybe buy a sprinter bench seat or the Ford one. Lap and shoulder belts for sure.
- I want a diesel, but am leery about the Powerstroke, only because I haven't read too much about it. I like diesels. I mostly like how they should be reliable and go 500,000 miles with decent fuel mileage! I'm not too keen on 17 mpg with the EcoBoost. I get 19-22 with my 6.7L Dodge Cummins.
- What about a layout with a high bed in the far back, sink / open are in the area with the slider, and the 3 bench seats behind that? See picture.
- Not sure about the medium roof. I can stand up in it "raw", but with a finished ceiling, I won't be able to stand up - do I need a high roof, or is crouching tolerable for my application?
- The seat cushion seems a bit short. How are 300+ mile stints in the van? Comfortable?

Going to drive a diesel tomorrow, and look forward to your input. :x

Maybe this layout idea?

Properly anchored to the floor the bench seat should be safe.

Diesel choice is a math exercise. Can you justify the extra cost based on the miles you drive/year? There are higher maintenance costs due to DEF and fuel filters. Where do you drive? Lots of short runs without long highway runs is difficult for the emission controls. The price of diesel vs. gas does change but that is crucial. A diesel that last twice as long as a gas engine (if it actually does) but costs twice as much to replace has the same overall cost. If I was an expediter where fuel costs were important and I drove a lot of miles/year at highway speeds I would select a diesel. If I drove 15,000 miles a year with lots of short run city driving, I would buy a gas engine.

My EB has averaged about 16.5 mpg in the first 6400 miles with a mostly empty van with 1/3 city, 1/3 two lane roads and 1/3 highway @ 70 mph.

Layout: Buy the high roof if your height dictates that choice. Stooping is a problem to me. The picture you posted has a couple of negatives IMO. Nicer to have the refrigerator mounted high so you can see in it and I have found I like the sink/cooking surface at the sliding door. Steam and smells from cooking go out the open slider door.

I also noticed the short seat cushion and thought it would be a problem. I have taken a couple of long trips and it did not seem to be an issue.

 

[bobojay]

Hello, and welcome to the forum. If it makes you feel any better about the Puma Powerstroke, we've rarely on here heard about any issues so far with it. Go over to the Sprinter and Promaster forums, and there's boo koo posts about emissions equipment problems, although they are getting better all around.
The Powerstroke in this application is not a 1st generation motor, it's a 4th generation, and used worldwide in other applications, most with abuse we'll never see here.

Be interested to hear your critique of the differences you notice in the drive between the EB and the PS engines. The EB of course will have more perceived power when you spool into those turbos......

 

[987R]

Fuel economy makes diesels a good choice for long distance use. I seriously doubt there is money to saved based on longevity in a modern, overcomplicated DEF diesel. I could be wrong though, as my opinion is based on multitudinous Sprinter horror stories.

That's my concern - diesels used to known for longevity and reliability, now they're known for complicated DEF/EGR/DPF headaches.

 

[987R]

Diesel choice is a math exercise. Can you justify the extra cost based on the miles you drive/year? There are higher maintenance costs due to DEF and fuel filters. Where do you drive? Lots of short runs without long highway runs is difficult for the emission controls. The price of diesel vs. gas does change but that is crucial. A diesel that last twice as long as a gas engine (if it actually does) but costs twice as much to replace has the same overall cost. If I was an expediter where fuel costs were important and I drove a lot of miles/year at highway speeds I would select a diesel. If I drove 15,000 miles a year with lots of short run city driving, I would buy a gas engine.

I prefer how diesels drive for truck and van-like vehicles, where I'm not in a hurry, per se.

I drive about 25,000 miles per year. Between 5,000' and 12,000' altitude, so a turbo (diesel or gas) has a nice benefit here.

Resale on a diesel used to be a big swing factor, but maybe less so these days.

Even if cost more in the long run, I'd choose a diesel IF it was reliable. Big IF these days.

 

[orton]

I prefer how diesels drive for truck and van-like vehicles, where I'm not in a hurry, per se.

I think you will find the EB drives very much like a diesel. Lots of torque at low engine rpm just like a diesel. Torque curve is very flat between 2500 rpm and 3500 rpm.
The EB might not be what you want if you are not in a hurry and like sluggish acceleration. EB moves when you want it to.

 

[987R]

I think you will find the EB drives very much like a diesel. Lots of torque at low engine rpm just like a diesel. Torque curve is very flat between 2500 rpm and 3500 rpm.
The EB might not be what you want if you are not in a hurry and like sluggish acceleration. EB moves when you want it to.

although it was a short test drive, I thought the EB was excellent! No complaints at all how it drives, and I quite enjoy abundant power (my weekend car fits that bill nicely).

But.... I seem to have this mental blockage of averaging 16 mpg and possibly seeing it dip down to 12 mpg that keeps me looking at a diesel. It's not based solely on economics, because I'm guessing at 25k/yr, the gasser is probably the correct financial decision. Mental blockage, I tell ya.

 

[orton]

although it was a short test drive, I thought the EB was excellent! No complaints at all how it drives, and I quite enjoy abundant power (my weekend car fits that bill nicely).

But.... I seem to have this mental blockage of averaging 16 mpg and possibly seeing it dip down to 12 mpg that keeps me looking at a diesel. It's not based solely on economics, because I'm guessing at 25k/yr, the gasser is probably the correct financial decision. Mental blockage, I tell ya.

I was happy to get rid of the diesel Sprinter for multiple reasons. One of which was to get back to gas. I finally realized that at my age fuel economy was not the most important thing in my life. I also wanted to be able to idle the engine to warm van and heat my shower water. Scheduled maintenance costs are higher on a diesel than on gas. Diesel was the better engine choice before the complicated emission controls were required. Now I would not choose a diesel unless I drove lots of miles/year at highway speeds and needed the economy to make a business plan work.

Others will surely disagree with my opinion.

 

[987R]

I think you are right. My 2006 5.9 Cummins was a dream. 24 mpg highway, 19 mpg around town. Fast forward 3 years, DPF, EGR (no DEF on my 2009), and subtract 2-3 mpg from those older numbers. Every other gas car is getting more efficient, and diesels are getting less due to emissions.

Now... I don't want to argue the environmental aspect of it, but we are lowering soot emissions at the cost of more CO2 emissions and overall fuel usage.

So... I've got some thinking to do.

 

[Zyzzyx]

I still like to get the comment out there that its not always about money and cost per mile. Sometimes its just the emotional attachment to how one engine feels compared to another.


I had decided on the ProMaster for a van choice, but wasn't sure about the engine choice. Had driven the gasser, but it was a bit 'meh'. Test drove the diesel, loved it right off. I only have ~700 miles on my van, but am still smiling every time I'm in it. I didn't get that feeling from the gasser. For me that was worth the option cost for the diesel and potentially higher operating costs.


I could see for the Transit that it could be the other way around, where I might enjoy the EB more than the diesel.

 

[987R]

@Zyzzyx - yes - your explanation is spot on.

I drove the diesel today - 250 / High roof / 144 wheelbase.

I like how the diesel drives. I might go back and drive the Promaster diesel to compare, but it seemed to have more power, smoother delivery, than I recall on my Promaster diesel test drive.

I'll say this - Ford has done a very nice job with the "feel" of the switches, shifter, turn signal stalk, everything. I'm not a Ford guy (more of a European sport sedan guy, to be honest), but I'm impressed with much of this "industrial" van bits and pieces. Drove it in a horrific thunder/lightning/hail/rain storm on the highway, then frontage road. Nice power delivery, quiet, decent handling. I'm hoping that it'll be non-fatiguing for the long haul, as that's my main goal with this.

I also think the high roof is the way to go for a work/camper layout. I'd like to go medium roof, but standing up straight is probably worth going with the high roof (I'm 5'9").

Am I right - the diesel doesn't have a tow/haul mode, but the EB does? Not sure why or why not.

So... as far as engine choice goes - that $6000 upcharge is a bit brutal to swallow. The stripper van that I test drove was $42,900.

That'd take about 3 years to payback the upcharge for the diesel vs. EB. I'm also assuming a higher resale with the diesel, but I guess that's debatable. I don't know if I'd be unhappy no matter which I chose.

 

[alarmist]

tow haul mode comes with the towing package independent of engine choice.

 

[987R]

tow haul mode comes with the towing package independent of engine choice.

Thanks.

 

[unclebob]

I'm an expeditor and I Drive six to ten thousand miles per month. I'm constantly doing 8 - 12 hour runs with the van and it rides fantastic. I usually average 17 to 18 miles per gallon with the 3.5 EcoBoost, I've got the tall extended model.

As far as gas vs diesel I got rid of my diesel sprinter to get a gas transit instead. All of the expeditors that I know of that have gotten the Transit have gotten the 3.5 EcoBoost engine.

We use these for business so going with a diesel is just too risky with unknown future repair costs involved. Last year it cost me over $8000 for emission control system repairs on my diesel Sprinter. We're just not willing to take the gamble on the diesel engine at today's technology levels.

 

[bbird]

I'm an expeditor and I Drive six to ten thousand miles per month. I'm constantly doing 8 - 12 hour runs with the van and it rides fantastic. I usually average 17 to 18 miles per gallon with the 3.5 EcoBoost, I've got the tall extended model.

As far as gas vs diesel I got rid of my diesel sprinter to get a gas transit instead. All of the expeditors that I know of that have gotten the Transit have gotten the 3.5 EcoBoost engine.

We use these for business so going with a diesel is just too risky with unknown future repair costs involved. Last year it cost me over $8000 for emission control system repairs on my diesel Sprinter. We're just not willing to take the gamble on the diesel engine at today's technology levels.

Like you I average about 65,000 miles a year, I also Owned a sprinter (04). I have the E.B. 3.31.


Their is absulitly no advantage to the diesel vs. E.B. ,the power is about the same and the 2-3 MPG in the diesels favor, which will be a wash in higher maintance and repair costs

 

[singletracker]

Car and Driver Transit road test. 22 mpg with EB! Yikes! Can that be?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/full-review-of-the-2015-ford-transit-xlt-van-review

 

[Jostalli]

Car and Driver Transit road test. 22 mpg with EB! Yikes! Can that be?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/full-review-of-the-2015-ford-transit-xlt-van-review

Can that be? Sorry, no. There are enough real reports here to prove this is false. This is clearly a paid article. Bogus quote, "the stunning 22-mpg combined fuel-economy number we recorded in the Transit simply decimates the 14 mpg we logged with the ProMaster 1500."

 

[Ottoj]

If you look at the pictures it shows 15.x average miles per gallon on the dash. Can't believe CAR and Driver types would not want to stomp on the gas petal more.

 

[987R]

At this point, I guess I'll just look for the right van with the right options and let that dictate my engine choice (EB or Diesel).

I really prefer a diesel, but it's a more complicated decision anymore.

We used to buy diesels for longevity, simplicity, and fuel economy. Even with the significant cost upcharge, it was still a good decision.

Emission regulations have now pushed people away from that, because it's made them more complicated and hampered the fuel economy. Maybe we are in a learning phase, and the technology will get us back to 24 mpg Transits with engines that last 500,000 miles.

Does Europe also have DEF/DPF/EGR requirements?