Ford Transit USA Forum banner

21 - 40 of 50 Posts

Registered
Joined
134 Posts
A couple of observations on the range of EVs:

All vehicles towing a large trailer at speed will use more energy because of the trailer's additional wind resistance. An EV, however, will recover something like 60% of the additional energy used to tow the mass of the trailer uphill, when towing downhill. This sweetens the proposition a bit.

ICE vehicles get poor mileage off-road because they are going slowly while essentially idling. The efficiency of the ICE is low under these conditions. EVs typically get their best range at fairly low speeds, as the basic efficiency of the drivetrain doesn't deteriorate at low speeds and losses are dominated by the relatively small constant loads such as air conditioning and power steering, rather than wind resistance. My Tesla S85D, for example, gets maximum level-ground, zero-wind range at ~18 mph. I would expect that an EV might get quite good range driving slowly off-road for this reason, as well as being able to recover energy from every downhill, both large and small.

Carry on.

--Frank
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Most of the time when people make comments about EVs they are thinking of this as the one and only example that typifies them all:
131019


Now we're looking at 500+ mile range vehicles with top speeds of over 200mph and 0-6 in less than 3 seconds. That also get an 80% charge in 15-20 minutes. And that's just what you you can buy TODAY. Next year and the years after that are just going to get better and better. Honda's working on a 5 minute charge system. Pretty soon it'll be faster to charge for 500 miles than fill up with gas for 500 miles.

(in comparison, it usually takes me 5-10 minutes between pulling in and leaving to fill up my Transit to get a range of 350-400 miles. So that extra 5-10 minutes to get 400 miles on a Tesla is SUCH a deal breaker! Who cares that it takes $75+ to fill up the Transit and less than $15 to charge the Tesla for the same range? There's a whopping 5-10 minute time savings! 馃ぃ)
 

Registered
Joined
139 Posts
rapid acceleration in an EV is about how all torque is available from the very instant you turn an electric motor on. on a gas engine you need to build RPM's to hit max torque and that takes time so acceleration times are slower. making an electric motor have less torque means less horsepower and more strain to get to and maintain speed, more strain means less distance. rapid acceleration is just a natural by product of EV's.
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Instead of 0 - 60 in less than 3 seconds, how about in 6 seconds and increase the range?
You know, it doesn't really make a difference in EVs. You can have either from the same motor system; but obviously if you go 0-60 in 3 seconds your range will be reduced a bit. Kind of like ICE vehicles. Except an engine that makes an ICE go 0-60 that fast cannot achieve very good mpg at regular speeds, where the electric system can. Or whatever the "mpg" equivalent is for an EV.
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
But back to CyberTruck;

Elon or someone, but probably Elon, has been driving it all over Los Angeles. And he's constantly breaking the law, because he's the Bad Boy Billionaire. Running red lights, changing lanes without a blinker, speeding have all been video documented. Not to mention simply taking it onto public streets is a violation of the law because it doesn't have side mirrors, DOT approved headlights, and the tires stick out past the fenders.
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Since most discussion of the CyberTruck is basically a beauty contest, here's the CyberTruck competitors:

Bollinger jeep-looking thing; 4x4 and just as flat-paneled as CyberTruck
131026


Rivian; sleek and viable design
131025


Atlis; more realistic and practical design for people who don't like things to be different (new and different is SCARY!)
131024


F-150 EV; same as Atlis but backed up by a huge manufacturer who can make good on warranty
131023


WorkHorse; same as Atlis
131022


Neuron; kind of like Rivian but more futuristic
131021
 

Registered
Joined
292 Posts
Now we're looking at 500+ mile range vehicles with top speeds of over 200mph and 0-6 in less than 3 seconds. That also get an 80% charge in 15-20 minutes. And that's just what you you can buy TODAY.
Ok, I will bite, which vehicle can you buy today that has all of those attributes in one single purchasable vehicle? Sounds great.
 

Registered
Joined
182 Posts
"New and different" isn't "scary", but rather unproven. I find traditional works fine. Its predictable and reliable. Why continue to complicate what has already worked for decades?

I hope the motivation isn't about "climate change".
 

Registered
Joined
134 Posts
What all of these get wrong, except maybe the Cybertruck to some extent, is that in an off-road (rough road) vehicle over-the-nose visibility really matters. Cab-forward is the best but runs into trouble with safety (both occupant and pedestrian), aerodynamics, and most of all acceptance by consumers most of whom are terrified of all but the smallest incremental changes. Our vans actually come closest to cab-forward of anything you can buy today in the US.

And what's that thing (the battery pack, no doubt) hanging under the electric F-150? That has got to go.

--Frank
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
"New and different" isn't "scary", but rather unproven. I find traditional works fine. Its predictable and reliable. Why continue to complicate what has already worked for decades?
I think the motivation is about consumer demand. EVs are super cheap to operate, and people seem to enjoy spending less money, AND having cars that can outrun the police, for some reason. Just imagine if the General Lee was an EV, Boss Hog never would have had a chance.

(insert knee-jerk soundbite reply about producing electricity and strip mining for battery materials here; remember only YOU can save the oil industry)
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
What all of these get wrong, except maybe the Cybertruck to some extent, is that in an off-road (rough road) vehicle over-the-nose visibility really matters. Cab-forward is the best but runs into trouble with safety (both occupant and pedestrian), aerodynamics, and most of all acceptance by consumers most of whom are terrified of all but the smallest incremental changes. Our vans actually come closest to cab-forward of anything you can buy today in the US.

And what's that thing (the battery pack, no doubt) hanging under the electric F-150? That has got to go.

--Frank
I agree, cabover makes the most sense for a practical vehicle. One of the reasons the seating is between the front/back wheels is because that's the sweet spot for ride comfort. When you're right on top of an axle, every little bump sends you off your seat. Ask me how I know!
131032
 

Registered
Joined
139 Posts
But back to CyberTruck;

Elon or someone, but probably Elon, has been driving it all over Los Angeles. And he's constantly breaking the law, because he's the Bad Boy Billionaire. Running red lights, changing lanes without a blinker, speeding have all been video documented. Not to mention simply taking it onto public streets is a violation of the law because it doesn't have side mirrors, DOT approved headlights, and the tires stick out past the fenders.
you should chase him down and commit a citizens arrest, i'll make the popcorn
 

Registered
Joined
957 Posts
(insert knee-jerk soundbite reply about producing electricity and strip mining for battery materials here; remember only YOU can save the oil industry)
Exactly, you don't become all of a sudden righteous, by switching to electric. If people were really concerned about the environment they would be living like a caveman, no modern conveniences. But nope, no one ever gives up a single polluting habit, they cause more pollution by getting the so called less polluting new thing. Production = Pollution.
 

Registered
Joined
182 Posts
I think the motivation is about consumer demand. EVs are super cheap to operate, and people seem to enjoy spending less money, AND having cars that can outrun the police, for some reason. Just imagine if the General Lee was an EV, Boss Hog never would have had a chance.

(insert knee-jerk soundbite reply about producing electricity and strip mining for battery materials here; remember only YOU can save the oil industry)
I've had my fast car days, now its just about cruising.

I don't know about consumer demand (regional maybe). Our gov't here is trying to sell us the concept of going green with EVs with rebates, special license plates, incentives and all sorts of other honey. Almost to the point of begging. I'm sure many manufacturers would love to be in bed with politicians, but that's none of my business.

They can be super cheap to operate (for now), but costs to buy, unless you have the cash up front, not so much. I'd add inconvenience as well for limited dealer/tech support for repairs and maintenance costs. I wonder what a damaged rim on that CyberTruck would cost. Let's not forget about planning your routes based on where the charging stations are. Especially in cold winter areas where you need to stay on top of a full charge. There is no freedom in that. How safe are they from hacking? Do you fully trust the auto-pilot?

Yes, it will take a long while before all that becomes negligible, BUT I would support this concept for big cities with buses, taxis and encourage small car commuters (if they HAVE to drive into the city), like L.A.

At this time, not a fan, but in 10 years, who knows?
 

Registered
Joined
957 Posts
I am sure when I am too old to be even driving, I will be driving some little EV, or it will be driving me? OTOH, I saw an old guy that uses his lawn tractor to go to the store, with a little basket to carry his goods.
 

Registered
Joined
5,076 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
Some of the features on the CyberTruck that should filter down to other trucks:

The tailgate ramp
Stainless/composite sandwich body panels
Integrated storage (already a thing)
tire-overlapping hubcaps (I don't like them from a design standpoint, they are all show with no purpose, but look for them to become popular)
Powered retracting bed cover (already a thing?)
Posse of sexually attractive people riding around with billionaire (already a thing)
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top