[bigbasin]

Still kicking the tires. I have a black hole of information regarding specs for electrical to run stuff in the van

The goal is to be at least two days in the middle of nowhere, running off the self-contained grid. Not sure about solar yet because I'm leaning towards a roof rack that I can stand on to use as photography platform.

How do I select batteries; and associated supporting gear to power the list below

Minimum equipment:

Microwave - on demand use only
Cube fridge/freezer - on all the time during trips
computer - ~3 hours per day (edit photos)
heater - on demand

still in the maybe group

TV
Sat dish/rcvr
A/C

Thanks

 

[klp]

Well, like me you have got a lot to learn!

I am by far a pro on this subject but you have many decisions to make. You can figure out how much power each device needs and size your batteries accordingly. Pretty straightforward - just do the math. For recharging lots of people use the van while driving, you can also use a generator or solar.

 

[atoine]

We designed our electrical from scratch and installed it a few months ago. We synthesized our learning into our blog here:
http://faroutride.com/ford-transit-camper-van/conversion-planning/electrical-system/

Hopefully this can help!

 

[sschefer]

Your refrigerator can be 2 or 3 way. 3 way gives you AC, Propane and 12v DC operation but 12 v will suck your batteries dry so it best to use the vehicle batteries and only put it in DC mode while driving.

If you want a microwave you have to step up to the plate since the smallest is going to be pulling at least 800W and that equates to 80 amps of DC current after your inverter gets done inverting it to 110v.

You can really stretch your boondocking ability by adding propane. You can run your refer off it and cook with it. The problem with propane is that you either need and external tank or a properly built external storage area on the inside of the van. I've gone with the later. It's not easy but nothing ever is.

I run four 6v golf cart batteries, carry two 20 lb propane tanks and a 2000w generator. I have a 1500 W inverter to handle the AC when I'm not on the generator. I usually only run the generator to top up the batteries.

 

[surly Bill]

Only 2 days?
Save your money and get a $50 MaxCold cooler and $2 bag of ice.
$20 single burner campstove with $3 fuel canister.
$30 400 watt DC>AC inverter to plug in your computer or TV. Your vehicle battery is able to charge up your laptop and run the TV, if needed. Most laptops have 5+ hour run time now. If in doubt, idle the engine while charging.

Using the above, you're good for 3-4 days, easy. As mentioned, electric appliances are power hogs for heating and cooking. A good Norcold , Dometic or Engel 12v cooler/freezer uses only a couple amps when operating, and are around $800. TVs use very little power, easily less than a couple amps, and even a 40" screen is less than $250 now.

There are NO efficient electric heaters or air conditioners. For heat you should just put on a coat and have a good sleeping bag, maybe idle the engine for a bit in the middle of the night with the heater blowing, or right before bed. Or get a fuel powered ESPAR heater, that burns gas from your tank (very little). Expensive.

If you are compelled to have those electric appliances, you'll need to have at minimum two deep cycle batteries, preferably four, 2000 watt minimum inverter, charging system. You can charge either with a small inverter at the starting battery powering a DC charger for the house batteries, or use an isolator to charge the house batteries at the same time as the starting battery when the engine is running. Either method isolates the house batteries from the starting battery, so you don't accidentally get stranded.

My "dream team" minimalist power station would be a pair of deep cycles (200ah total), 1500 watt inverter, 3amp staged charger (powered by 800 watt inverter at starting battery); all housed in a modular cabinet I could plug'n'play when I go camping. I don't know what I'd need that power FOR, but I'd have it. Maybe I'd add a portable solar module to trickle charge during the day, so I don't have to idle the engine to top off the house batteries. Oh, and a 12v cooler/freezer, because ice is messy.

 

[sschefer]

Here's my setup. Good for about 5 days if I'm careful.

 

[orton]

It is decision time.

What you decide you need forces the electrical design.

My choices:

12v/120v 85 liter refrigerator.
propane or butane for cooking.
12 volt heating pad to stay warm at night.
Remote start to warm van in the morning.
LED lighting.
"600" watt microwave (actual 1140 watts)
Wanted to always charge the house battery with a 3 stage charger with proper charge profile.
Remote meter to tell me the house battery state of charge.
Electric shower water heater.

The electrical design that lets me go indefinitely:

single 12 volt 255 amp-hr 8D AGM battery
300 watts of solar with 15 amp MPPT solar controller.
1000 watt Magnum inverter/charger/transfer switch with battery monitor and remote.
1000 watt vehicle powered inverter for backup charging in case of extended bad weather.
Shower water heated while driving.

IMO most conversions have larger electrical systems than are required. Decisions up front can eliminate the need for the cost and weight of "mobile power stations".

Do recognize that we all have different requirements and what I have done may not be suitable for others.

Details:

http://www.ortontransit.info/electric.php

 

[BabyBuffy]

The author of these articles has done a good job of scaring me about the quality demands of doing wiring connections, especially in the 2nd link. I'm trying to decide what, if any, crimping tool I should acquire for what I will eventually need it for and it makes me wonder once again what the common approach is by the builders on this forum. Apparently there is no one tool that does it all and the ones he describes are expensive as all get out.

Perhaps for the largest cables I have to deal with I hunt down somewhere local and have what I need professionally done but surely that wouldn't be acceptable for all the lesser wiring.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...r_inefficiency

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_labeling

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_fusing

 

[orton]

I went to the local Interstate battery store to have them make the cables.

Just used rope to make a sample of what I wanted. Made the rope length equal to what I wanted eye to eye. Put a tag on each end stating if I wanted a 90 or straight connection and the hole diameter. Put another tag that I put on the center of the rope stating wire size and added black or red tape for color.

Walked in and gave them the collection and returned with what I wanted. Not very expensive and done correctly.

 

[Michael Ophus]

lots of luck, i got a thomas&betts mechanical crimper worth well over 2000 dollars, each time you need to crimp a new wire size you have to buy a new set of crimping dies to match the new wire size, they cost 300 bucks for each set of dies! this crimper is for big cables 1/0 to 500 MCM. (tools for work that i own and what i made all of my inverter/battery cables with)

 

[BabyBuffy]

lots of luck, i got a thomas&betts mechanical crimper worth well over 2000 dollars, each time you need to crimp a new wire size you have to buy a new set of crimping dies to match the new wire size, they cost 300 bucks for each set of dies! this crimper is for big cables 1/0 to 500 MCM. (tools for work that i own and what i made all of my inverter/battery cables with)

Michael! "Lots of Luck" is how some people say "You're f*cked!"

Is that what you be telling me?

 

[surly Bill]

Maybe get ends that have a set screw or other mechanical way of attaching to the wire. More expensive, but cheaper than a specialty tool from one of the best tool companies in the world. Or check Harbor Freight. It's not like you're going to do this for a living day in and day out, a cheap tool should last more than long enough for one van. On my large wire crimping, with the WRONG TOOLS FOR THE JOB, I've always soldered them after the fact. I also use adhesive shrink tubing. I've never had a problem.

 

[pjtezza]

I bought a $50 hydraulic crimper off Amazon and it works fine. Here are a couple of posts about my crimper and electrical system:
http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...at-gauge-oem-battery-cables-3.html#post410082
http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...at-gauge-oem-battery-cables-3.html#post410090

 

[joefromga]

I have a hammer style crimper that goes to 6/0. It works great with a 10lb sledge on a concrete surface.

You can get all your cables at a welding supply including the terminals. This isn't rocket science. The crimper was 29 bucks, I think.

 

[Michael Ophus]

Michael! "Lots of Luck" is how some people say "You're f*cked!"

Is that what you be telling me?

no, just another example of the kinds of crimpers required for certain jobs, that tool proves to electrical inspectors who enforce the national electrical code that all crimps have been made with the proper PSI per crimp. the Code does not directly apply to automotive applications, but it does apply to home/household renewable energy battery/inverter applications so it may be a thin line between the two if insurance companies become involved? Orton's idea may be the best quick and dirty idea for you, auto part houses will often make the cables for you too or loan you the tool for cables.

 

[Michael Ophus]

I have a hammer style crimper that goes to 6/0. It works great with a 10lb sledge on a concrete surface.

You can get all your cables at a welding supply including the terminals. This isn't rocket science. The crimper was 29 bucks, I think.

those crimpers you hit with a hammer make low quality crimps that often get hot and cause voltage drops because many people can not hit them hard enough, some kind of pliers crimper makes it almost idiot proof! (also there is no such thing as 6/0, it goes from 4/0 to 250 MCM and on up!)

 

[skagitstan]

those crimpers you hit with a hammer make low quality crimps that often get hot and cause voltage drops because many people can not hit them hard enough, some kind of pliers crimper makes it almost idiot proof! (also there is no such thing as 6/0, it goes from 4/0 to 250 MCM and on up!)

Not a big problem if you solder the connections.

 

[Michael Ophus]

Not a big problem if you solder the connections.

yep, i have saw soldered bronze battery post clamp ends on cables last through 20 years of constant use on commercial diesel electric AC generator sets. (far outlasting the original batteries!)

 

[tthrsn]

The author of these articles has done a good job of scaring me about the quality demands of doing wiring connections, especially in the 2nd link. I'm trying to decide what, if any, crimping tool I should acquire for what I will eventually need it for and it makes me wonder once again what the common approach is by the builders on this forum. Apparently there is no one tool that does it all and the ones he describes are expensive as all get out ...

I looked through the links that you provided. Very informative. There are also interesting articles on Lithium batteries and charging AGM batteries on that site. Thanks.

I was going to have a local firm do my crimping but decided that it might be better if I did it myself. This would allow me to work on my install one wire at a time, to get the wire lengths and lug angles right, particularly on awkward short fat wires.

Interestingly, the made in China hydraulic crimper that I bought on EBay arrived this morning. I bought the 16 ton model. In USA the price (with free shipping) was less than US$40. After currency exchange, shipping to Canada, and customs fees the price was CAD$85.

The crimper comes with 16, 25, 35, 50, 70, 95, 120, ...300 dies, the numbers representing the cross sectional area of the wire in sq mm. I'll never use the larger dies but I bought the 16 ton model for robustness. It seems to be heavy duty and came with an extra set of O-rings.

I tried it out doing a couple crimps on 4 gauge wire (21.1 sq mm cross section). I mounted the crimper vertically by one handle in my bench vice (otherwise it's heavy and awkward to use). I started with the 35 die (to set the hexagonal shape) and then did three successively tighter crimps with the 25 die, each time rotating 120° to maintain the hex shape. The metric dies don't perfectly match the AWG wire sizes and are crudely cast, so getting a nice looking crimp involves a modicum of skill. Also pay attention to how you mount the second half of the die, sometimes rotating it back to front improves the mating of the two halves.

After I did two lugs on a 3" length of wire, I put one lug in the vice and twisted and pulled (with pliers) on the other lug. I couldn't pull them apart or do any damage. The lugs were solidly attached.

Then I used my nonferrous blade in my chop saw and cut one of the crimps in half. The individual strands of wire and the lug were one piece of solid copper. Even when I crushed it in the vice I couldn't tease out any of the old structure. (By the way, the chop saw also provides nice clean cuts on thick wires.)

I'll set up a little production line to do my 70 crimps on wire sizes 4, 1, and 2/0 (21.1, 42.4 and 67.4 sq mm). Crimping doesn't seem to be rocket science and the tool is reasonably priced.

 

[BabyBuffy]

I looked through the links that you provided. Very informative. There are also interesting articles on Lithium batteries and charging AGM batteries on that site. Thanks.

I was going to have a local firm do my crimping but decided that it might be better if I did it myself. This would allow me to work on my install one wire at a time, to get the wire lengths and lug angles right, particularly on awkward short fat wires.

Interestingly, the made in China hydraulic crimper that I bought on EBay arrived this morning. I bought the 16 ton model. In USA the price (with free shipping) was less than US$40. After currency exchange, shipping to Canada and customs fees the price was CAD$85.

The crimper comes with 16, 25, 35, 50, 70, 95, 120, ...300 dies, the numbers representing the cross sectional area of the wire in sq mm. I'll never use the larger dies but I bought the 16 ton model for robustness. It seems to be heavy duty and came with an extra set of O-rings.

I tried it out doing a couple crimps on 4 gauge wire (21.1 sq mm cross section). I mounted the crimper vertically by one handle in my bench vice (otherwise it's heavy and awkward to use). I started with the 35 die (to set the hexagonal shape) and then did three successively tighter crimps with the 25 die, each time rotating 120° to maintain the hex shape. The metric dies don't perfectly match the AWG wire sizes and are crudely forged, so getting a nice looking crimp involves a modicum of skill. Also pay attention to how you mount the second die, sometimes rotating it back to front improves the mating of the two dies.

After I did two lugs on a 3" length of wire, I put one lug in the vice and twisted and pulled (with pliers) on the other lug, to pull them apart. I couldn't do any damage. The lugs were solidly attached.

Then I used my nonferrous blade in my chop saw and cut one of the connectors in half. The individual strands of wire and the connector were one piece of solid copper. Even when I crushed it in the vice I couldn't tease out any of the old structure. (By the way, the chop saw also provides nice clean cuts on thick wires.)

I'll set up a little production line to do my 70 crimps on wire sizes 4, 1, and 2/0 (21.1, 42.4 and 67.4 sq mm). Crimping doesn't seem to be rocket science and the tool is reasonably priced.

Thanks for your input. Is this the crimper you described?

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Choice-Products-Hydraulic-Crimping/dp/B00EA6GU9U