[Brandon]

If my van is insulated like the picture below what could I stick on the bare metal parts to try and mitigate some of the thermal transfer? I know I cannot stop it but just to reduce it a little. I know I have seen vans insulated completely with some thin foil looking stuff just stuck to the van. What is that stuff and would it create a bit of a thermal break?

Please don't turn this into a insulation rant. I just want to block a little of the thermal transfer.

 

[Michael Ophus]

If you did not want an insulation rant you should have looked at some of those other forum threads where this was discussed in fine detail.

 

[dhagberg]

If my van is insulated like the picture below what could I stick on the bare metal parts to try and mitigate some of the thermal transfer? I know I cannot stop it but just to reduce it a little. I know I have seen vans insulated completely with some thin foil looking stuff just stuck to the van. What is that stuff and would it create a bit of a thermal break?

Looks very similar to where I'm headed on my insulation journey.

I'm planning to use Neoprene on the bare metal parts as documented in @natecostello 's excellent documentation: https://www.greenstello.com/blog/2021-10-9-neoprene-thinsulate-felt/wall-treatments/

Doesn't really count as "insulation" (no published R-value) but should reduce thermal bridging.

 

[me&z]

No such thing as a "simple" insulation question around here.

Some folks have used fabric glued to the metal. To keep as much headroom as possible in our MR, we installed 1/8" hardboard over the ribs on the ceiling. How much does it help? No idea. Definitely feels less cold than bare metal.

Here's a thread on gluing fabric

 

[Brandon]

If you did not want an insulation rant you should have looked at some of those other forum threads where this was discussed in fine detail.

Maybe I should have worded it different. Not really about insulation as much as just want to cover the bare metal with where I will not have insulation.
Every thread I searched was about the insulation and I have read most of them on here in the last year and half so yes I know they can get crazy and very opinionated. I will have wall panels over the bare metal but wanted to see if there was something thin to stick to it to help.

Thanks for taking the time to give me a useless answer.

 

[Brandon]

No such thing as a "simple" insulation question around here.

Some folks have used fabric glued to the metal. To keep as much headroom as possible in our MR, we installed 1/8" hardboard over the ribs on the ceiling. How much does it help? No idea. Definitely feels less cold than bare metal.

Here's a thread on gluing fabric

I was wondering if I should just use a thick dense fabric. I know it does not have any real R value but I'm hoping it will just cut back on the cold to the touch part or thermal bridging.

 

[me&z]

We still need to cover the "window frames", pillars, and doors. I'm going on the theory that almost anything will be better than bare metal. Pillars will probably be the same carpet we used on the lower walls/bed support. It has no stretch so we can only use it for straight (more or less) areas. I've got extra fabric in both our gray and teal colors but haven't decided which to use or exactly how to sew something for the window frame areas. The rear and slider doors have me stumped too. But a lot of our indecision is due to a combination of not wanting to add a fourth material and a really, really, really low budget. We'll get there eventually.

IF I were not constrained by my prior choices, I'd go with trunk liner or automotive tweed fabric and glue it on. Something with give and stretch to cover all those curves.

 

[Yellowstone2Yukon]

The trendy thing to do is to use Low-E, the "thin foil looking stuff" you mention. That's duct insulation, just foil around a very thin layer of closed cell foam. The foil doesn't do anything in that application and you'd be better off just using closed cell foam.

There's a lot of different options for closed cell foam, EPDM and rubberized foam and hybrids thereof probably being best. (Ensolite, Aerocel, Neoprene)

Here's a good source for Ensolite:

ENSOLITE – SOLD BY THE LINEAR FOOT - Foam Mart

LF= LINEAR FOOT EXAMPLE: IF YOU BUY 2 LINEAR FEET YOU WILL RECEIVE A PIECE OF ENSOLITE 60" X 24" . Ensolite PVC-NBR-CR is an energy absorbing foam originally developed by NASA to protect pressure from damage. It has virtually 100% memory and is waterproof. The 1-1/4" thick product has skin on...

foammart.com

Same company also sells Ensolite with adhesive backing. I've seen @AVC RIG using this exact stuff to insulate pillars and other exposed metal.

 

[Brandon]

The trendy thing to do is to use Low-E, the "thin foil looking stuff" you mention. That's duct insulation, just foil around a very thin layer of closed cell foam. The foil doesn't do anything in that application and you'd be better off just using closed cell foam.

There's a lot of different options for closed cell foam, EPDM and rubberized foam and hybrids thereof probably being best. (Ensolite, Aerocel, Neoprene)

Here's a good source for Ensolite:

ENSOLITE – SOLD BY THE LINEAR FOOT - Foam Mart

LF= LINEAR FOOT EXAMPLE: IF YOU BUY 2 LINEAR FEET YOU WILL RECEIVE A PIECE OF ENSOLITE 60" X 24" . Ensolite PVC-NBR-CR is an energy absorbing foam originally developed by NASA to protect pressure from damage. It has virtually 100% memory and is waterproof. The 1-1/4" thick product has skin on...

foammart.com

Same company also sells Ensolite with adhesive backing. I've seen @AVC RIG using this exact stuff to insulate pillars and other exposed metal.

That might be just what I need. Just something to cover the metal in hidden locations. I hope to have has much insulation as I can in there but in some places it is just not going to cover the bare metal.

Thank you for the link

 

[Yellowstone2Yukon]

That might be just what I need. Just something to cover the metal in hidden locations. I hope to have has much insulation as I can in there but in some places it is just not going to cover the bare metal.

Thank you for the link

My idea, which may or may not be useful with what you're thinking, is:

1. Polyiso in the big cavities, layered as per @ArgonautVans
2. Some mix of closed cell foam and Thinsulate in smaller and less convenient ones.
3. 1x3 firring strips with a 1/4" closed cell foam thermal break glued to them. (leaning towards 1/4" fanfold XPS but a less rigid closed cell foam might prevent rattles and squeaks at the expense of a little R-value)
4. 1/8" Ensolite anywhere that metal is still showing.
5. 1" Polyiso flush with the furring strips forming an inner box. In some places this might preclude the 1/8" Ensolite, and in those cases I'd just put Great Stuff on the metal.

Then I'd make sure to insulate everywhere, like Thinsulate inside the cab doors and 1" of polyiso followed by Thinsulate in the headliner, and make a nice Reflectix/Thinsulate window cover.

That would make your wall cavities unusable, since they'd be covered by the polyiso inner box, but should make a nice tight thermal envelope.

 

[Van Wilder]

Thank you for asking a question that many people think is obvious. I’m still sponging all this info - and sometimes when I search I don’t use the right terms. I’m sure I’ll be all grumpy old man once I know everything, but until then I think this was a great question.

 

[Van Wilder]

Would 1/8” ensolite help as a final barrier covering all insulated or non insulated areas, or is that just a waste of $$$

 

[Brandon]

My idea, which may or may not be useful with what you're thinking, is:

1. Polyiso in the big cavities, layered as per @ArgonautVans
2. Some mix of closed cell foam and Thinsulate in smaller and less convenient ones.
3. 1x3 firring strips with a 1/4" closed cell foam thermal break glued to them. (leaning towards 1/4" fanfold XPS but a less rigid closed cell foam might prevent rattles and squeaks at the expense of a little R-value)
4. 1/8" Ensolite anywhere that metal is still showing.
5. 1" Polyiso flush with the furring strips forming an inner box. In some places this might preclude the 1/8" Ensolite, and in those cases I'd just put Great Stuff on the metal.

Then I'd make sure to insulate everywhere, like Thinsulate inside the cab doors and 1" of polyiso followed by Thinsulate in the headliner, and make a nice Reflectix/Thinsulate window cover.

That would make your wall cavities unusable, since they'd be covered by the polyiso inner box, but should make a nice tight thermal envelope.

Because I'm using an AdWag kit for walls and ceiling I'm limited on what I can do. I'm using thinsulate in the walls and ceiling and some havlock wool stuffed in a few places. I want to cover the bare metal where I can and I may put something like this over the AdWag framing to make a little bit of a break there but this will have to be tested to see if it works for the install. The back of all the wall and ceiling panels have reflectix on them so that will help too. One advantage we have is we do not plan on snow camping and if it gets too hot where we are we will go somewhere cooler if needed.

 

[Yellowstone2Yukon]

Would 1/8” ensolite help as a final barrier covering all insulated or non insulated areas, or is that just a waste of $$$

I don't know how much thermal value it would provide anywhere but on bare metal.

One thing to think about is that Ensolite and similar materials are the closed cell foam marketed for automotive sound deadening. In that case, they serve as a mechanical isolation layer that prevents rattling. I guess having Ensolite between your wallboards and whatever other rigid spots would prevent vibration noises.

 

[Brandon]

Thank you for asking a question that many people think is obvious. I’m still sponging all this info - and sometimes when I search I don’t use the right terms. I’m sure I’ll be all grumpy old man once I know everything, but until then I think this was a great question.

****, I started this process already a grumpy old man......I'm in trouble.

 

[njvagabond]

Please don't turn this into a insulation rant. I just want to block a little of the thermal transfer. Here is some investigating that I recently did.

Search for "thermal break" and/or "thermal bridge". 🤯
So far I have come across 3 4 different closed cell foam that people in the forum have used in vans

As to these "rubber" insulation products: k-flex being NBR/PVC, Aeroflex being EDPM, and I will add in "Minicell" **
being XLPE. Aeroflex has some interesting marketing literature on the "superiority of EDPM over NBR/PVC.
The polarity issue is a new one to me. Here is a comparison sheet from and Indian "Aeroflex" manufacturer that also indicates that EDPM is superior than both NBR/PVC and XLPE. Certainly some due diligence research for independent objective info would be prudent. All said, even if these comparisons are valid, I wouldn't sweat (bad pun?) the installed K-Flex as the differences don't seem all that significant ... as I sorta infer ... marketing literature ... that is probably making a big deal over little differences.

As mentioned above, also neoprene which I did not include in the above comment.

Looking at 3 members who do their homework.
@ArgonautVans = NBR/PVC
@natecostello = neoprene
@orton = EDPM
countless use XLPE in the floor - typically the generic stuff most often misleadingly marketed as Minicell (Minicel with one L is a trademarked brand name)

My guess is that for suitability for this application they may very well be more similar than different.

Hey, what's with the white seat bases?

 

[ArgonautVans]

I probably would have gone aeroflex if I had access to it locally, but it was 1.5x the price and two-three weeks out compared to k-flex I could get at grainger the next day.

I found reports of people using k-flex to insulate their aluminum hulled boats who had no issues after years in use and that was good enough for me. Also no rubber smell compared to aeroflex is good

 

[jkmann]

1/8" industrial felt has an r-value of about 0.5, which is helpful as a thermal break and for sound deadening. It's widely available and can be purchased either with adhesive backing or installed with various glue products.

 

[gregoryx]

I'm still planning on the neoprene / fabric approach (bought the materials) for all the bare metal. But I like the industrial felt idea as well. End of the day, not sure it's a big difference of one material or the other - mostly, how difficult it is to work with is my suspicion. 🤔

 

[Michael Ophus]

Maybe I should have worded it different. Not really about insulation as much as just want to cover the bare metal with where I will not have insulation.
Every thread I searched was about the insulation and I have read most of them on here in the last year and half so yes I know they can get crazy and very opinionated. I will have wall panels over the bare metal but wanted to see if there was something thin to stick to it to help.

Thanks for taking the time to give me a useless answer.

Search phrase: Thermal Bidging