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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. New Transit Connect owner here. I am not in love with the van shutting off at stops. I shut the option off. My question is how wouldnt this make the starters go out faster with the starting all the time? It seems that is not a good practice. Am I wrong?
 

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Every new car has this feature these days. If you bought a Fiat product I would say your fear could manifest. Lol

The defeat is a nice option. The premature wear isn't much of a concern. Starters last for a long time. Cheap and easy fix when it does happen. Google this question and it has been asked a thousand times
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Every new car has this feature these days. If you bought a Fiat product I would say your fear could manifest. Lol

The defeat is a nice option. The premature wear isn't much of a concern. Starters last for a long time. Cheap and easy fix when it does happen.
No kidding! So it's good and I should just get used to it? It really unnerved me the first time it did it! I thought the thing died! haha
 

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For those of us who spend our time working on and even designing motors and drivetrains, this is an incredible piece of engineering. Not because it's a great idea or even a smart idea. Because it's designed for insignificant gains (in most cases) while making the systems more complicated, expensive, and prone to failure.

The starters are beefed up from typical starters, that is true. But if you're stuck in traffic for 40 minutes on the way to work, or you hit a couple dozen red lights and stop signs, the duty cycle isn't just doubling or tripling, it's increasing exponentially. Will the starters hold up? Maybe. The starters will also be more expensive when it comes time to replace. So let's say you have to replace the starter twice as often and the starter costs 4x as much...

And then you have the rest of the electrical system. The alternator is also beefed up, and the battery has to be beefed up as it will struggle to stay fully charged in many circumstances. Again, these items will also be more expensive.

And the end result? Maybe .5 mpg? Probably less.

There are so many things that could be done to increase mpg and longevity. For example, many of us might like a manual tranny option. This would increase mpg far more and decrease maintenance and repair costs of typical vehicles significantly. (One of the most common catastrophic failures in modern cars is auto trannies)

But that's just one man's opinion. I think it's sillly and wastes more money than it saves.
 

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There are so many things that could be done to increase mpg and longevity. For example, many of us might like a manual tranny option. This would increase mpg far more and decrease maintenance and repair costs of typical vehicles significantly. (One of the most common catastrophic failures in modern cars is auto trannies)

But that's just one man's opinion. I think it's sillly and wastes more money than it saves.

um, not quite, a modern automatic is far more efficient than todays manuals when it comes to fuel savings. nobody wants a manual anymore, simple as that, let a lone on a truck.
 
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The starters are beefed up from typical starters, that is true. But if you're stuck in traffic for 40 minutes on the way to work, or you hit a couple dozen red lights and stop signs, the duty cycle isn't just doubling or tripling, it's increasing exponentially.
The starter is much more likely to fail while underway, then when starting a parked car. Just simple odds there. That is also more costly and certainly more inconvenient. The one upside is if you are conscientious about inhibiting stop/start (or disable it via SEIC ) then the high duty cycle starter should last a really long time.
 

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I'd worry more about the flex disk teeth. You're going to pull the trans to fix that.
 

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"So let's say you have to replace the starter twice as often and the starter costs 4x as much..."

The starter itself hasn't changed at all. Same ancient technology. So saying it may be 4x more expensive is about 4x an exaggeration.
 

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um, not quite, a modern automatic is far more efficient than todays manuals when it comes to fuel savings. nobody wants a manual anymore, simple as that, let a lone on a truck.
Mm, not quite, a modern automatic performs slightly better in standard EPA mileage testing. Real world comparison can vary significantly depending on the operator.

Anecdotally - I beat the EPA rating of my MT car by 20% in city driving . In my auto transmission minivan rating only by about 5% and that is by knowing when to back off before the shift points to short shift and then stay out of the throttle enough to not cause a downshift I can get about 10% better than the highway by being attentive to when the automatic would downshift and back off by a few MPH a bit to delay or avoid the. Basically, I attempt to manipulate the automatic shifting logic to choosing gears more like I would with a manual.

Long highway drives with cruise control in a manual and no downshifting is quite pleasant. I suspect the Ecoboost would be especially suited to this.

I would prefer a manual transmission in any vehicle over an automatic. Not why I would prefer a different transmission in a truck than any other vehicle.
 

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"So let's say you have to replace the starter twice as often and the starter costs 4x as much..."

The starter itself hasn't changed at all. Same ancient technology. So saying it may be 4x more expensive is about 4x an exaggeration.
If it is the same starter, then I would worry about service life. I suspect that Ford may have looked at normal (very long) service life and factored that down by the increased use and concluded, yup it will last through the warrantee period or maybe even a bit more. Only time will tell.
 

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If you're concerned, you could try this device - Autostop Eliminator - ymmv, M

"Disabling auto start/stop on your Transit Connect couldn't be easier. This intelligent device restores your preference for auto start-stop automatically which eliminates the need to press the button after each ignition cycle"

PS: Transits built for Ambulance duty do not have auto start-stop
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
For those of us who spend our time working on and even designing motors and drivetrains, this is an incredible piece of engineering. Not because it's a great idea or even a smart idea. Because it's designed for insignificant gains (in most cases) while making the systems more complicated, expensive, and prone to failure.

The starters are beefed up from typical starters, that is true. But if you're stuck in traffic for 40 minutes on the way to work, or you hit a couple dozen red lights and stop signs, the duty cycle isn't just doubling or tripling, it's increasing exponentially. Will the starters hold up? Maybe. The starters will also be more expensive when it comes time to replace. So let's say you have to replace the starter twice as often and the starter costs 4x as much...

And then you have the rest of the electrical system. The alternator is also beefed up, and the battery has to be beefed up as it will struggle to stay fully charged in many circumstances. Again, these items will also be more expensive.

And the end result? Maybe .5 mpg? Probably less.

There are so many things that could be done to increase mpg and longevity. For example, many of us might like a manual tranny option. This would increase mpg far more and decrease maintenance and repair costs of typical vehicles significantly. (One of the most common catastrophic failures in modern cars is auto trannies)

But that's just one man's opinion. I think it's sillly and wastes more money than it saves.
Well you said it a lot wiser than I could put into words but basically that is what I thought! Thing is you have to shut it off every time you want to go somewhere. I would rather it be an option to turn on, instead of turn off. Long stops are one thing but thru town stopping every other turn is bothersome.
 

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"So let's say you have to replace the starter twice as often and the starter costs 4x as much..."

The starter itself hasn't changed at all. Same ancient technology. So saying it may be 4x more expensive is about 4x an exaggeration.
According to the Ford brochure, it's an "enhanced" starter. Not sure what that means, but it sounds expensive.
 

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The dreaded ESS, At one point we told ourselves we would never own a car/truck with this option installed. When I open the hood I didn';t even see the "plunger" device that you can disconnect that allows the engine to stay running. But one would see a signal on the dash saying something like hood is unlocked etc. For the time being, we just start the van up and press the on off button. But once in a while I feel that the van wants to shut off also or goes through the motions. But doesn't shut off. If you van doesn't shut off even if the button has been pushed. could be a short in the system. Now I have heard of devices that plug into your computer that save your last settings. But I doubt we'll try this either.
The enhanced starter/alternator is merely and upgrade from the stock with more punch and less worry about burning the system out because of all the start stop crap.
 

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um, not quite, a modern automatic is far more efficient than todays manuals when it comes to fuel savings. nobody wants a manual anymore, simple as that, let a lone on a truck.
Theoretically, you are correct. In the real world, if you are a competent, aware driver, it's pretty easy to beat the EPA ratings.

Also, consider the simple facts that auto transmissions are heavier, far more complicated, more expensive, require more maintenance, and the maintenance and repair are more expensive. And it will never react as a human can, because it can't look ahead at the hill or red light, or know what it is the operator is about to do.

There are still some of us that would prefer the control, the cost savings, and the performance benefits over the simple convenience of not shifting. Keep your auto, I'm not trying to suggest fewer choices, I'm trying to suggest more.

Oddly enough, when I lived and travelled in Europe, autos were rare as hen's teeth. Even big diesel pusher motorhomes were manuals. But then again, European culture in general is a bit less fascinated by perceived luxury than Americans. But that's a different rant. ;)
 

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Personally we don't care about any EPA crap, besides the 2020 van gets way better gas mileage and fuel savings than our old 2015 even with a K&N air filter installed.
 

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Personally we don't care about any EPA crap, besides the 2020 van gets way better gas mileage and fuel savings than our old 2015 even with a K&N air filter installed.
Just curious, what were your highway mileage results with both vans?
 

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2015 = 19 city 21 highway (some times less but never more)
2020 = 23 city 26 highway (after two weeks of driving 1,600 miles & adding K&N air filter) so I'm sure this total could drop or increase as we have a major trip in the works in 2 weeks.

Something else i wanted to add, because we're going from 215/55/16 to 215/50/17 we're going to be saving some fuel as the 17'' combo will rotate less than the 16'' combo. So we're hoping this 17'' setup will gain us a few more mpg's
 

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um, not quite, a modern automatic is far more efficient than todays manuals when it comes to fuel savings. nobody wants a manual anymore, simple as that, let a lone on a truck.
The EPA let’s manufactures build in any shift dynamic it wants on an automatic. On a manual there are designated rpm shift points that you must adhere to. When an auto gets better mileage on the EPA cycle it reflects very short shifting that the builder has programmed into the software. No software on a manual so if a tester was left to their own devices they would short shift as much as possible leading to all sorts of shenanigans by the driver. Software is considered part of the car and you can do anything you **** well please. Operator influence, beyond how much you press the gas, is considered experimental influence. Because of this the EPA testing cycle has proscribed rpm shifting points that must be adhered to. I’ve heard the points are very high and the testers say you feel like the engine is screaming.
So it’s easy to beat the numbers on a manual simply by driving in a normal, conservative manner. Lots of folks don’t know about this and think the manual just can’t keep up with the mpg of an automatic.
On another note, go to Alex on Autos, I believe it’s called, and watch him compare electric car ranges to his new Ford electric Mustang. You will find there are two different ways manufacturers can test their electric car ranges. Teslas always fall short of their published ranges and most of the other cars exceed theirs. It’s great when someone gets real world numbers.
 
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