[Dogdude222]

am i the only one who dreams of something like a Q-lift for 2", then a spacer like VC for additional lift (maybe 1" to keep CV's not as stressed). i personally would love something in the 3"+ range

Use the Bilstein's and you're within 3/8" of your dream. Plus you'll have a bit of a leveling effect.

 

[Dogdude222]

I like the Quigley lift but I don’t think my future upgrade budget will allow for that,
I wonder if there will ever be some kind of fix kit for the very low hanging stock rear shock
mounts with out having to lift the entire vehicle?? The VC rear mounts are nice but
you got to do the 2’’ lift.

It isn't about the VC mounts specifically. If you move the shock mounts upwards on the axle, then shocks can bottom out before the axle hits the bump stops. You could technically put the 2inch bump stop extensions on with the shock relocate and not do a lift, but your rear travel would be extremely limited. Another option would be to find shocks that are 2 inches shorter. There was a thread on here a while back discussing that option at length. I cannot remember if anyone actually found a viable option for a shock that was two inches shorter.

 

[JMG_Systems]

False. Of course they have to use a strut spacer. They cannot move the strut mounts on the body. If you are moving the subframe, control arms, and struts down, then you either need a spacer up top on the strut/spring assembly or a longer strut/spring assembly. Otherwise, you'd end up with the vehicle sucked way down into its travel. The only way to maintain stock control arm angle and CV angle is to space the subframe down. I have spoken both with Quigley and with Newberg who will be doing our install. Though they refuse to spell out every exact part of the kit and its installation, they both directly verified that it is a subframe drop.

It would technically be possible to combine the lifts, but would require a 4 inch spacer up top, rather than a 2 inch. Alternatively, one could use the VC springs and get part way there too.

My plan is to go with the Bilsteins for an additional 5/8" of lift for 2 5/8".

I saw someone on FB post about their Q-lift and asked for a picture of the sub-frame area to get an idea of what is going on down there got the following pictures.

I have not had time to take a picture of my stock subframe set up to compare the two side by side. Maybe someone else can do that?

 

[Dogdude222]

I saw someone on FB post about their Q-lift and asked for a picture of the sub-frame area to get an idea of what is going on down there got the following pictures.


I have not had time to take a picture of my stock subframe set up to compare the two side by side. Maybe someone else can do that?

Great looking van and good pictures. Would honestly be more useful to see pictures of the transfer case and driveshafts. Seeing the subframe spacers doesn't tell us much. On a stock van, the frame just sits right on the subframe. Still, these are the first photos I have seen under a Q lift AWD van. Like I said, ours goes in in early March. I'll be sure to take before and after photos. Quigley may be tight lipped, but people should know what they are getting for 4k.

On a side note, I did manage to get a pair of the backordered Bilstein B6 front struts in hand. So our van will hopefully be 2 5/8" lift up front with 2 inch out back. Looking forward to a bit more of a leveling effect. And yes, I will be adjusting the headlights.

 

[Janus9]

That is a good pic to see the subframe spacers. I would like to see how they spaced the front diff down.

Now that someone has done a lift like this for the awd, I wonder if any other companies will follow suit.

 

[Dogdude222]

That is a good pic to see the subframe spacers. I would like to see how they spaced the front diff down.

Now that someone has done a lift like this for the awd, I wonder if any other companies will follow suit.

True.

Doubtful. Agile just resells other's stuff. Transit off road has already said their intention is to do their control arms with a strut spacer. U joint has made clear he has no plans to release to a lift for AWD vans. Quadvans could, but they seem buried with 4x4 conversions anyway. Unless some other player enters the market or vancompass admits that their approach is misguided, this is it for the foreseeable future.

 

[VanCompass.com]

We received pictures from a customer of the Q-lift. The lift is basically the same lift kit we created back in 2015 for the 2wd Transit. It was called our Terrain kit. We dropped the subframe 2.5" and provided strut spacers for camber correction and a steering shaft extension. The Q-lift is very similar to our old subframe drop kit, they added a front diff drop bracket to make it work with the AWD front CV shafts.

We installed the Terrain kit (subframe drop lift) on our AWD test van and decided it was not going to be worth the effort to make the kit work. The front diff needed to be dropped, but it is attached to the transmission. We had a design for a diff drop spacer, but accessing the diff to install the drop spacer requires the exhaust to be removed, not to mention the entire suspension subframe. We mocked everything up and noticed the front driveshaft was at way too steep of an angle at the transfer-case flange if you drop the diff 2” to match the subframe drop. The upper driveshaft boot was rubbing on itself and the joint was difficult to turn (binding). If you look closely at the Q-lift 2" subframe drop and compare it to the diff drop bracket you will see that the diff is not dropped a full 2” when you compare the bolt hole centers to the subframe spacer. The diff appears to be dropped about 1.25” and slightly rotated forward. This leads us to believe that the front CV axle shafts are still getting close to a bind at full suspension extension and steering lock, especially with a 1” longer B6 strut installed. We now see two longvetivity issues - a front driveshaft that is operating at an extreme angle and the CV axles are getting close to binding. Installation of this kit is very involved and takes many hours to complete. All the steps needed to remove the suspension subframe, exhaust and diff are complicated. The cast iron front diff housing is also cut and modified for the diff drop bracket.

Van Compass decided to go a different route for an AWD lift. Coil lift springs and small strut spacers to correct camber. Much more affordable and way easier to install. So much so that we decided to just sell the 2” Topo kit for all Transits and drop the Terrain kit from our lineup. The Topo kit installed without the 1” longer B6 strut keeps the front CV axles within the operating range. We are currently working on a 1.5” front lift that will allow the use of B6 struts with no CV bind. Also, a Falcon coil over strut with a top out damper is in the beginning stages of development for the ultimate ride improvement.

Here is what you are getting with the Q-lift for front suspension mods.

Steering shaft extension

Subframe drop pucks:

Drive shaft angle. Can’t see the Transfer case flange well, but notice the grease slinging out of the upper driveshaft boot and landing on the oil pan.

Front diff drop/rotation – The top bolt flange of the diff casting is cut off. The sheet metal bracket drops and rotates the diff to correct the CV axle shaft angles.

Factory diff shown with the 3rd upper bolt that is cut off the diff housing for the drop bracket.

 

[Newps]

No wonder Quigley has been so secretive about their lift. They were worried it would get copied by someone else, since they basically did the same thing....ha..ha..ha.

Thanks for the heads up VanCompass, I was on the list for the Q-lift through Field Van. Although to be honest, they did not seem like they were ever going to do it. I think they would rather turn out $125k builds then install these kits. It was like paddling a boat upstream to even get them to call me back.

Keep us update on the progress of these two new lifts.

 

[Dogdude222]

We received pictures from a customer of the Q-lift. The lift is basically the same lift kit we created back in 2015 for the 2wd Transit. It was called our Terrain kit. We dropped the subframe 2.5" and provided strut spacers for camber correction and a steering shaft extension. The Q-lift is pretty much a direct copy of our old kit, they added a front diff drop bracket to make it work with the AWD front CV shafts.

We installed the Terrain kit (subframe drop lift) on our AWD test van and decided it was not going to be worth the effort to make the kit work. The front diff needed to be dropped, but it is attached to the transmission. We had a design for a diff drop spacer, but accessing the diff to install the drop spacer requires the exhaust to be removed, not to mention the entire suspension subframe. We mocked everything up and noticed the front driveshaft was at way too steep of an angle at the transfer-case flange if you drop the diff 2” to match the subframe drop. The upper driveshaft boot was rubbing on itself and the joint was difficult to turn (binding). If you look closely at the Q-lift 2" subframe drop and compare it to the diff drop bracket you will see that the diff is not dropped a full 2” when you compare the bolt hole centers to the subframe spacer. The diff appears to be dropped about 1.25” and slightly rotated forward. This leads us to believe that the front CV axle shafts are still getting close to a bind at full suspension extension and steering lock, especially with a 1” longer B6 strut installed. We now see two longvetivity issues - a front driveshaft that is operating at an extreme angle and the CV axles are getting close to binding. Installation of this kit is very involved and takes many hours to complete. All the steps needed to remove the suspension subframe, exhaust and diff are complicated. The cast iron front diff housing is also cut and modified for the diff drop bracket.

Van Compass decided to go a different route for an AWD lift. Coil lift springs and small strut spacers to correct camber. Much more affordable and way easier to install. So much so that we decided to just sell the 2” Topo kit for all Transits and drop the Terrain kit from our lineup. The Topo kit installed without the 1” longer B6 strut keeps the front CV axles within the operating range. We are currently working on a 1.5” front lift that will allow the use of B6 struts with no CV bind. Also, a Falcon coil over strut with a top out damper is in the beginning stages of development for the ultimate ride improvement.

Super appreciate you guys chiming into this thread. Certainly the Q lift is similar to the old terrain kit, but I would caution you about the use of the language "direct copy of our old kit." As we all know, without significant fabrication involving custom control arms, CV axles, or switching to a solid front axle, there are only two ways to lift these vans: either you lengthen the strut assembly or you space the subframe. Quigley has been spacing the subframe for their 4wd conversions for years and adapted that approach for the AWD transits. They certainly did not "copy (your) old kit."

I agree that for many people, the topo approach may be a better option and certainly is cheaper, but not everyone wants some of the drawbacks of the topo. Some people hold out hope of a factory warranty, and the Quigley offers the potential for that.

I am glad to hear that you guys are developing some alternative options, particularly ones that will allow for lifts with aftermarket front dampers and even coilovers! Having seen the angles of the CV axles on the topo lift and how even just the B6 5/8" is the difference between potential CV failure or not and the angle of the front driveshaft of the Q lift, my opinion is that the CV axle on the topo is far more likely to fail than a driveshift or CV axle on the Q lift. Again, this is just my opinion, but it did drive me to spend 4x more on the Q lift and drive 800 miles to have it installed rather than do the topo. You guys at Vancompass are obviously very smart, so I am not saying that Quigley is right and you are wrong. I am just saying that people (like myself) are willing to shell out 4x more for the Q lift. That means you guys are losing customers for some reason, and that is not just my opinion.

Again, super appreciate your willingness to participate in this thread.

 

[VanCompass.com]

Super appreciate you guys chiming into this thread. Certainly the Q lift is similar to the old terrain kit, but I would caution you about the use of the language "direct copy of our old kit." As we all know, without significant fabrication involving custom control arms, CV axles, or switching to a solid front axle, there are only two ways to lift these vans: either you lengthen the strut assembly or you space the subframe. Quigley has been spacing the subframe for their 4wd conversions for years and adapted that approach for the AWD transits. They certainly did not "copy (your) old kit."

I agree that for many people, the topo approach may be a better option and certainly is cheaper, but not everyone wants some of the drawbacks of the topo. Some people hold out hope of a factory warranty, and the Quigley offers the potential for that.

I am glad to hear that you guys are developing some alternative options, particularly ones that will allow for lifts with aftermarket front dampers and even coilovers! Having seen the angles of the CV axles on the topo lift and how even just the B6 5/8" is the difference between potential CV failure or not and the angle of the front driveshaft of the Q lift, my opinion is that the CV axle on the topo is far more likely to fail than a driveshift or CV axle on the Q lift. Again, this is just my opinion, but it did drive me to spend 4x more on the Q lift and drive 800 miles to have it installed rather than do the topo. You guys at Vancompass are obviously very smart, so I am not saying that Quigley is right and you are wrong. I am just saying that people (like myself) are willing to shell out 4x more for the Q lift. That means you guys are losing customers for some reason, and that is not just my opinion.

Again, super appreciate your willingness to participate in this thread.

We have always shown our customers and competitors how we do things. People are going to find out either way. We try to be an open book so you can see what you are getting when you buy our parts and what cons any of our products can create. Both VC and Quigly kits modify to the stock design and they both have cons related to the modifications. We got the info on the Q-lift and wanted to share. Los of people ask us to clarify the difference.

B6 struts Vs. Stock AWD struts

The B6 has 1" more travel 7" vs. 6" and the spring perch is welded on 5/8" higher. The B6 lets the suspension extend 1" more than stock and it gives the coil spring more preload (a slight lift). The stock AWD CV starts to bind at 1" of additional suspension travel. Running a B6 on a stock AWD puts the CV into a bind at full extension. The Topo kit with a stock strut allows the suspension to extend 3/4" to keep the CV out of a bind.

 

[Dogdude222]

We have always shown our customers and competitors how we do things. People are going to find out either way. We try to be an open book so you can see what you are getting when you buy our parts and what cons any of our products can create. Both VC and Quigly kits modify to the stock design and they both have cons related to the modifications. We got the info on the Q-lift and wanted to share. Los of people ask us to clarify the difference.

B6 struts Vs. Stock AWD struts

The B6 has 1" more travel 7" vs. 6" and the spring perch is welded on 5/8" higher. The B6 lets the suspension extend 1" more than stock and it gives the coil spring more preload (a slight lift). The stock AWD CV starts to bind at 1" of additional suspension travel. Running a B6 on a stock AWD puts the CV into a bind at full extension. The Topo kit with a stock strut allows the suspension to extend 3/4" to keep the CV out of a bind.

Definitely appreciate the open book approach. Ultimately, if you have a good product, it should sell itself. I was more than a little disappointed with the "answers" I got from Quigley, but it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to understand generally how they did it. I felt more comfortable with that approach, so I went that direction.

Again, appreciate your participation in this thread.

 

[Brianmcgaha]

Both VC and Quigly kits modify to the stock design and they both have cons related to the modifications.

This is the thing people roll right over and don't even consider.
ANYTIME you raise or lower the suspension from its original intended design you are introducing compromises. It doesn't matter who does it or the methods used.

 

[coguzzi]

We are currently working on a 1.5” front lift that will allow the use of B6 struts with no CV bind. Also, a Falcon coil over strut with a top out damper is in the beginning stages of development for the ultimate ride improvement.

very interested to hear this, so with the B6 it will net close to the same lift as your current TOPO 2.0 lift. same benefits but with a better dampened strut. do you plan on bringing back 2 spring rates again as well? i had your red coil 2.0 and liked the spring rate a lot.

BUT, the coil over idea sounds like it might even be the cats meow and trump the above set up. keep up the good work Van Compass, ill continue to wait to see what you come up with since i dont have a build date for my next van anyway

 

[njvagabond]

This is the thing people roll right over and don't even consider.
ANYTIME you raise or lower the suspension from its original intended design you are introducing compromises. It doesn't matter who does it or the methods used.

No doubt. Of course the original design like all design is compromise of many factors, one of which is the intended uses of the vehicle. So for folks with a different intended use/priorities/personal preferences (even if it's just street cred) might prefer different compromises. Isn't that basically what all mods. That being said, for my use, the many pros of the stock set up far out weigh the benefits of a modified suspension.

 

[Canuck77]

That being said, for my use, the many pros of the stock set up far out weigh the benefits of a modified suspension.

I’m interested in (eventually) getting a lift, but don’t even have the van half finished let alone know whether I need/want a lift. Presumably the benefits of remaining with stock suspension are warranty, reduced fuel costs, maybe better reliability. Any others? The lifted vans look hella cool but I wouldn’t do it just for that, I do hear they drive better for a medium/heavy conversion too. And of course if we actually do any off roading.

 

[ArgonautVans]

@VanCompass.com Will this new falcon front coilover strut work with the existing Topo Lifts on AWDs? I would love to replace the stock struts on my lifted AWD van, but as mentioned the B6s are a no-go.

very interesting on the Q Lift design. Makes me feel a lot better about my decision to go with the Topo lift. The fact that the van is already sling grease from the boot is a red flag.

All that money I saved was much better spent on other suspension and offroad upgrades like my steel rear integrated hitch bumper. I still think the whole “Quigley maintains factory warranty” is not nearly the benefit people think it is.Even if the ford warranty is void, it seems many dealers won’t touch anything related to the lift if something goes wrong.

And besides the suspension itself and CVs, legally the VC lift doesn’t void anything. I know my rights and I don’t think I’ll have any problems arguing them if something comes up that the dealer wants to try and blame on the lift to void the warranty for something else

 

[njvagabond]

I’m interested in (eventually) getting a lift, but don’t even have the van half finished let alone know whether I need/want a lift. Presumably the benefits of remaining with stock suspension are warranty, reduced fuel costs, maybe better reliability. Any others? The lifted vans look hella cool but I wouldn’t do it just for that, I do hear they drive better for a medium/heavy conversion too. And of course if we actually do any off roading.

Lower center of gravity. I have no personal experience, but am skeptical about comments regarding the a raise van feeling "more planted" (i.e. stability) on the highway. Different shocks/spring rates, wider tires/lower profile, that are possibly associated with a lift certainly may have an effect. but cannot see how raising the height helps in and of itself would contribute to greater. It seems that most lifted vehicles have taller tires as well, which further raise the vehicle, and taller tires, unless they are correspondingly wider might also reduce stability. I'm sure the proponents will chime in with their thought, anecdotal and/or otherwise. Higher vehicles are also more difficult to get people and stuff in an out of.

Of course taking things "hella cool" to the other extreme might not be practical either IMO - uncool is cool .. so says this longtime minivan owner/advocate.


FWIW - I differentiate between durability and reliability. Reliability issues are something that can get you stuck on the side of the road and be quite unnecessarily expensive to boot. If you are prudent, durability issues should not get you stuck and the costs should at least be more predictable in timing and cost (although not necessarily insignificant). Kinda particular about that given my manufacturing background where there can be a huge $$ difference in impact between unplanned an planned downtime.

 

[Hall E Wud]

Van Compass heading down the right path -

 

[syncrocrick]

Van Compass heading down the right path -

Sorry 1:30 is too long for me...what's the Cliff's notes?

 

[Dogdude222]

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