Project: Minimalist with kayak

Left-right weight distribution

In my van, the kayak location is a limiting factor. The floor space on right of van must remain clear, thus, that is not a good location for bulky-heavy items like cabinets, water, batteries. The only "useful" floor space would be ahead of and behind the wheel wells.

So, the only thing that has made sense is to put the bed on the right side. I expect to make it hinged on the wall, so that it can be folded out of the way. It may have legs or chains for support. It will probably have the mattress on all the time. In memory foam or latex, the mattress might be 40 lbs.

I figure to have a base cabinet along the left wall -- maybe full height in the back half. I really only want simple jerry cans for water storage -- put, say, three for drinking water under the counter, with easy access door, and a 4th for grey water from a simple sink. Probably set up a 12v pump, with feed tube that can be swapped between cans. MOST of the time, the water cans would be empty.

It looks like the cabinet just behind driver seat is the logical position for house batteries, so that's more weight on the left side, and it would be carried all the time.

If it could help my weight distribution, I would consider a chassis mounted, dedicated water tank. Unfortunately, the right chassis space does not look as good as the left, for clear space and mounting options. BUT, maybe someone has ideas on appropriate tank and mounting for that right side space. And, I'm not going to have the elevated floor that some install in the high roof Transits. So, water line would have to run... under the cargo box? (I don't live or travel in extreme cold.) Pex through wall and ceiling space? Or, maybe just along the front edge of whatever floor I put in, where it would have some protection?

Maybe I'm missing something that would help. Or, maybe I'm not going to have enough weight bias to really matter in a vehicle with such high weight capacity.

I've had analysis paralysis. Have been considering purchase of commercial wall and ceiling (and even floor) liner kits. In another thread, I had looked at the economics and quality of liner kits. I had determined that doing it myself with Celtec -- my preferred material -- would cost at least $1062, while kits from Legend, via Inlad, would cost $1448.

Today, I finally found a way to get Celtec for less, through a plastics supplier in Atlanta. I just ordered sheets of 6mm gray Celtec for $68 each, and $139 shipping for 8 of 'em, total of $685. I think the liners can be done with 7 sheets, so, I'll have 1 extra backup sheet. So, I'll be saving $250 over my previous DIY estimate, and more than $600 over buying kits from Inlad.

Will it be Celtec light grey, or dark grey? I don't know! The supplier was unsure, from his available data. Either will be OK. Light grey, more like the pewter seats. Dark grey, more like the slider door panel, and other charcoal accents.

I've been worried about how to join panels of Celtec, for the ceiling. When I was talking to Hein, ordering Thinsulate, he mentioned that Celtec bonds well with CA glue (similar to Superglue). Hein even makes interior van furnishings with thicker pieces of Celtec, and CA glue. Now, I think I can work out edge bonding with CA, possibly with router cut-edges, if necessary.

For the record, the Legend liners are made of their Duratherm, and, I eventually learned that the material consists of two layers of HDPE, with corrugated or other hollow material between them.

Also, for benefit of others, I eventually found another liner kit for less money. But, it appears too soft, as photos show the fastener buttons causing indents in the material.

And, for benefit of me, for reference, I'm collecting below, some of the other threads I've started to try and gather info needed to begin my build:

Door steps and flooring thickness

Hanging stuff under chassis, anyone?

Couple of options questions

New owner, new project in Georgia

I was given a link to Clips and Fasteners, for OEM type push retainers, like those holding on the liner panel on the sliding door. It looks like this is the one we need for the Transit liner panels. Specs say it fits into an 8mm hole and has 20mm stem length. Our holes are 9mm. But, an OEM pin does fit into an 8mm hole (and, there are some 8mm holes in the ceiling beams), and it expands to 12mm.

But wait, Clips and Fasteners has another same-same item that "replaces Ford #N807389S ", and it's less expensive.

But wait! I go to check out, and shipping is $14.

But wait -- , and select Clips and Fasteners as the vendor, and shipping is free!

$29 for 150 push retainers. That's about 1/3 of what I feared they might cost.

Oh, and, I had contacted Inlad, to ask if the push retainers included with liner kits are re-usable -- like OEM. Or, were they, possibly the simple serrated posts that get mangled when you remove them? This is important if you expect to have ready access behind the panels, as you continue a build. The guy was not crystal clear in his text, but, did say that the fasteners pushed in, and should, ideally, not be removed.

My MaxxFan install

I'll make a few comments about the fan install I did today -- just the stuff that may be different, or insightful, or annoying. It's already been covered by others, with lots of photos:

Orton

Skagitstan

jethaden

Beridian

The most unique thing about my install may be that I did the entire thing from inside the van. I only had to climb a ladder on the outside, to do the final placement of the MaxxFan into the installed flange**. If you're skinny, you may be able to pull this off, as well. I could not think of a good way to get high enough and stable enough on the medium roof van to work on the exterior. And, I think the unsupported roof areas will distort or bend if you look at them wrong.

My goal was to try to maintain the roof's curve by adding side shims cut from vinyl brick molding. I did trial and error on the subtle angle, until I got it right. The scales on my saws are not very expensive or precise, but, the angle is 2 1/2 to 3 degrees. See photos.

I cut the hole with a jigsaw, yes, from the inside. Instead of drilling corner holes, I drilled 5 closely spaced holes in the middle of each side. I cut between the holes with a Dremel with metal cutting wheel. Then, I was able to cut from the middle, to the corners with the clunky jigsaw. This was a bit awkward doing the transverse cuts, having to hand-support one edge of the saw's foot, while riding the tape-protected cross-beam on the other edge. I had to finish off 1/2 inch in 4 places, with a handle mounted hack saw blade.

Like others, I clamped all of the parts together to drill holes. I had already fit some wood for the underside, which will maintain the spacing under the ceiling liner, and the MaxxFan trim piece will screw into the wood. I had put some cross-grooves in the upper surface of the wood pieces, so that on final assembly, I could apply some 3M 5200 and get better adhesion, to have permanent pieces, there. Not that I ever want to remove the MaxxFan flange, but, if I did, I would not have to deal with the wooden spacer blocks, again. tthrsn has good info on using 5200 to attach wood to metal.

I used butyl tape for the initial seal of all exterior parts to one another, and to the roof. I think I had 5 layers of tape at the widest gaps at the sides of the front and rear edges, near the vinyl side spacers. One photos shows the butyl material after I had trimmed it with a plastic picnic knife. There's no pic, but, I later applied Dicor 501 caulk (which one MaxxAir video, I think, favored) all around, and over the screw heads.

That's all the good stuff.

Here's the bad stuff about the install.

I try to do things right, so I will be satisfied when I look at them, and be proud to show them off to others. Sometimes **** happens. I'll blame Ford for this one, although, under more ideal circumstances (more forethought, less pressure to get work done while it's not "supposed" to rain, more available assistance, maybe more experience, etc), I could have done better.

"What, what, tell us what you're talking about!"

Well, my vinyl side spacers are nice and perfect, and the fan sits perfectly on the roof panel. BUT, the roof panel does not sit perfectly on the roof crossbeam supports! Id say it's about 1/8 inch higher on one side, and, if you're looking for it in the interior, you can notice this by the thickness of the anti-vibration foam between the parts. So, the roof is lopsided, but would not normally be noticed. Now, from the rear, particularly with the vent open, there's a noticeable tilt to the fan assembly, in relation to the van (of course lopsided roof line is not visible). I'm really pissed about it. Pissed at Ford, and at myself. I could have compensated for this by adjusting the thicknesses of the vinyl side spacers.

** My statement about only using the ladder on the exterior one time is not quite true. I had to take a detour after getting the cutting and filing done, to vacuum up metal filings on the roof. This was a bad scene. You have LESS time than you think, to get all that stuff. We had some humidity today, and some of the smaller, barely visible bits started to attach firmly to the paint finish. And, the filings and chips vibrated and moved on down the grooves in the van top, to near the front of the roof. I could not vacuum them while standing on my ladder, up through the 14x14 inch hole. Had to move around the exterior, climbing the ladder with big shop vac in hand, awkwardly vacuuming everywhere. I still don't think I got it all. And, the places where the microbits clung on, I'm going to re-visit after I drive into town to get a mild scrub sponge, which I'll try using with denatured alcohol, or maybe just car wash soap.

Whether cutting from inside or from outside, it would be best to have another person on the outside, chasing the cut with a vacuum brush-fitting.

Panel Fasteners

I received the "GM push-type retainer" panel fasteners from Clips and Fasteners, today. They are perfect. Difficult to tell from Ford's OEM parts, as found on the sliding door panel in a cargo van. See photo. Not a great photo -- makes the C&P fastener (left) to look a bit rough in comparison to OEM (right)... but, they're just fine. These are SKU: PAS1860-25 for pack of 25, $4.79. The piece is noted to replace Ford N807389S. 150 of 'em for $28.74, and free shipping. There's an Amazon link, in my previous post.

Update -- My wonky MaxxFan

OK, I have pics. Turns out the fan itself has a tilt to it, which adds to the 1/8 inch tilt of the roof panel. I can't do anything about the Ford roof panel, which probably is within normal manufacturing tolerance.

Tell me what you think about the MaxxFan. See the pic with it removed from the mount. If it was your fan, would you contact manufacturer, about replacement?

It's not hooked up to 12v, yet. Driving around on an 88 degree day -- fan open and windows down a few inches -- I can see that I can make less use of AC (I rarely use home AC), and, that's before doing any insulating.

First wall template

I made my first wall panel template today, using 22x28 inch poster board. Started with the easiest section, which used just over 2 sheets. After I cut it to size and taped it up, I marked about where the holes should be, then pressed and felt for them. I burnished them with the round end of a screwdriver handle. I have circular hand punches, to nicely make the holes, back on the workbench. Here, I'm testing it with the panel fasteners. I'm still not sure what, if anything, Ford and Legend use to secure their panels to the bottom edges, as there are large rectangular holes there, rather than 9mm round holes.

I wanted to get this template made, because I'll soon have wiring sticking out of the wall, behind the driver's seat. Yes, Orton's preferences notwithstanding, that is a piece of flex conduit showing past the C pillar. I like the stuff, and, it's cheap. Only needed 12 feet of it. Will switch to the similar but split shielding, for the branch wiring. I'm only burying 4 circuits, and the central LED fixture will be switched -- making primary wire better than SO cord. I'll put that switch within reach and high, while standing outside the sliding door.

(I had to de-saturate the photo, due to strange color lighting reflected into the van. That's why the blue tape and conduit look pale.)

TNorth said:

EddieZ

I think Ford uses plastic inserts in the rectangular holes to receive screws. You can see an example of one by removing the sliding door step or molding on the floor of the back doors. The rectangular hole allows for some movement of the tab to better align with the screw.

A couple questions.

1) Have you found a pathway from the front of van to the back van on the passenger side? At 6'4" with a medium roof I don't want to give up any vertical space in cargo (living) area. I'd like to run wires from the under the driver's seat to the post behind the passenger seat and then to the back of the van, but I haven't found a path yet.

2) What is the PVC spacer you put under your roof vent to fill in the corrugated depressions?

Nice job on the build. Once you start enjoying the van on your travels you'll never notice the tilt. Or if you do, it will bring back fond memories of transforming this thing from a tin can to a moving home.

Click to expand...

Thanks, yes, I've been meaning to check the screws holding the panel at bottom of sliding door.

I guess you're saying you're not going to insulate and panel the roof, to save 2 inches height? Dang, that's where a lot of heat come in. Or, do you mean you will not use an elevated floor, where wiring can be run in the high roof models? Yeah, same here.

I think the only reasonable wire path to the right rear on the medium roof is the one I'll be using. Here's another photo. You can see the conduit past the C-piller, turn upward, and become accessible at the top slots (a bit of work getting it through there). From there, I will switch to lighter, split corrugated sheathing (Home Depot has the best price around here), and run across the ceiling, along the support beam. You can zip-tie there, even without a finished ceiling. Once to the other side, you can go back into the wall.

The PVC spacers for the vent frame were cut from one edge of vinyl brick molding. One piece is $10 from Lowe's, so, do test cuts (table saw might work; I used a band saw) on 2x4s.

Sliding door innards

I've started on insulating my van. Today, I decided I'd pull off the panel on the sliding door, and add a big ole piece of insulation in there. But, I was surprised by all the cables and small spaces. And, the sealed dust cover. I decided to leave it for later. Or, never.

I had also figured I'd eventually get to the rear door panels. Those are finished interior trim, which would take more knowledge and finesse to remove. The insides are probably similar to the slider. Anyone taken those off?

Temporary 12v setup

I got my 12v setup working, just to run the MaxxFan, for now. It's a temporary configuration, until I can make a real cabinet. All of the cables are longer than necessary, to allow for whatever routing I end up with. The cables associated with the CTEK D250S Dual DC-DC charger are bigger than necessary, to allow for eventual upgrade to include the CTEK Smartpass, if desired, without having to buy cables a second time.

You guys with the dual OEM battery option may have a crowded battery box to deal with, but, the single battery leaves plenty of room for cable routing. I had not seen how anyone else was routing cables, but, I ran mine right through an existing slot in the seat pedestal -- just had to peel back some black tar-paper-like material. And, I used a Dremel to make a passage through the rear wall of the plastic battery box.