[coguzzi]

Call George or one of the fine folks at Extreme Outback

Extreme Outback

www.extremeoutback.com

I had an extreme air magnum and a 5 gallon tank on my 4x4 E350 diesel econoline. that thing was an insane compressor, could run air tools off it. i dont really know why they are not more popular, i think its because they are happy being small. the magnum is BIG, ive installed tons of ARB singles and doubles, and viair compressors. honestly--dont really have a favorite. if your doing tires a lot--arb double or extreme air would be my go to. if its just air bags and bike tires--anything will do the job

 

[orton]

I was considering this option (still kind of am) but the major trade off with that option is they take up allot of interior space, mounting the tank under the van frees up allot of room for other gear.

I lucked out. Had an existing empty cabinet below refrigerator where it just fit. Unit is very quiet and appears to be quality.

I did think about separating the compressor from the tank to make it fit but did not need to do that. Permanently mounting both does defeat the advantage of being portable. That would be the same as installing a DC compressor but at lower cost.

 

[JustAnotherUser]

I've got an ARB single mounted in an interior cabinet with good airflow. Works super well for my needs (blowing snow/rain off of gear and airing up the occasional van/bike tire. That said, if you plan to use it for a length of time like, say, blowing up a paddle board, be aware that they can run super hot. If I were to do it again, I'd likely mount mine outside the van under the frame somewhere.

 

[njvagabond]

I was poking around the Extreme Outback and Viair website trying to learn and make some comparisons. One difference I noticed is that Extreme Outback has a five year warrantee and Viair has a one year warrantee

 

[ArgonautVans]

Well I did a ton of research, pretty much settled on the ExtremeOutback Magnum Compressor (May get the ExtremeAire still, but for only $175 more the performance increase is significant). I will likely spend a lot of time at high altitude, and that hurts compressor performance a lot (20-30%).

I decided to use solenoids and digital air pressure gauges. Seemed like the most reliable way to get air controls into the cabin. With all the components in the kit, I almost could just buy a Airlift Wireless Air for the same price, but the reviews seemed iffy on reliability. I like building it from components, because I can replace anything individually down the line if it fails.

Only thing I need to figure out a bit is the amp requirements for the compressor relay into the cab area for the switch to turn the compressor's power on and off. Right now the diagram has about 40ft total for that switch's positive wire at 10 AWG, which may be pushing it, because I want the power switch to be powered by my house batteries, not van ignition (as is typical). I could maybe power it off my starter batteries though instead, that'd cut out about 10-15ft of wiring

 

[memck]

How many amps does that relay draw? Must be pretty high if you're looking at 10AWG.

Crazy idea, but you could stack up a second relay that draws less power and then use it to drive the actual compressor relay. Not sure if your goal is to reduce wire size/spend or something else.

How likely are you to leave the system switched on or running for extended periods of time without running your engine? Is your concern with using the starter battery potential battery drain in such situations?

 

[ArgonautVans]

I’m not sure on the delay, it probably is pretty low but Outback suggest the 10A fuse so I was guessing 5-7A. I need to call them

I can probably wire the relay to the starter batteries, the switch will almost always be off unless I want to use the compressor, fill the bags, or am going offroad. I don’t have to put the switch up in the cab either, but seems convenient vs having to go into the back to turn it on if I’m driving and forgot before I set off

 

[coguzzi]

in my opinion, air compressors should be treated like winches and wired to the starting battery and used with vehicle running (ie, charging). at least that is the way i have always wired them but open to hearing good arguments the other way. not critical to have vehicle running when running compressor, especially for air bags or small items. but airing up tires for sure

 

[ArgonautVans]

You would be right with most traditional vehicles like trucks and jeeps. However, I want to be able to run my compressor at any time, van running or not. With such a high Amp Draw (84A for the Magnum compressor), I do not want it to pull from my starter batteries/alternators, as my sound system and B2B chargers are already going to be puling 200+ amps most of the time. I have a large lithium battery bank (810Ah) - so I can easily handle the current draw and amp requirements of the compressor. Plus it's a much shorter wire run to go to my bank, as my battery bank is behind my passenger wheel well inside the van, and my compressor will be mounted under the van in front of the spare tire. With the engine running, I'll still be charging the battery bank at 2-2.5 times the rate the compressor is pulling off the bank.

 

[memck]

You would be right with most traditional vehicles like trucks and jeeps. However, I want to be able to run my compressor at any time, van running or not. With such a high Amp Draw (84A for the Magnum compressor), I do not want it to pull from my starter batteries/alternators, as my sound system and B2B chargers are already going to be puling 200+ amps most of the time. I have a large lithium battery bank (810Ah) - so I can easily handle the current draw and amp requirements of the compressor. Plus it's a much shorter wire run to go to my bank, as my battery bank is behind my passenger wheel well inside the van, and my compressor will be mounted under the van in front of the spare tire. With the engine running, I'll still be charging the battery bank at 2-2.5 times the rate the compressor is pulling off the bank.

Helpful context! Sounds like a beefy electrical set up, and optimizing for shorter wire runs on those heavy wires makes a ton of sense.

RE: switching and monitoring - where would be the most convenient place based on how you envision using the air system? You mention having the switch in the cab so you can turn it off when you drive off - is that also the place you'll want to be controlling your solenoids from? For airing up tires or using an interior blowout you'd be getting hose(s) and other equipment - where would that be stored? Would it make more sense to put the controls near there? Airbags kinda make sense to be able to control from up front, but will you usually be dealing with those when also doing air up/down tasks, anyway? Do you prefer a cleaner cockpit setup while driving? Just trying to help think through angles for decision-making

On the Extreme Air website they say the 100A relay only draws 5A and can be wired using 14-16ga wire in most circumstances, so your 10ga is probably a lot larger than necessary even for 16ft run.

 

[ArgonautVans]

I'm planning on putting the switches and gauges right behind/above the Sync 3 8" screen. There's a little depression with a removable holder for sunglasses or pens there, should fit pretty well. I'll likely 3D print a mount for that location. I'm also considering putting them up in one of the weird "cubbies" in the headliner shelf, but that will make it somewhat hard to read and control from the driver's seat.

I want to be able to read the gauges and control the solenoids from the drivers seat - that way if I'm driving I can raise or lower the rear end with the airbags on the fly. Since the compressor will be turned off most of the time, I want the switch for it up front too so I wouldn't have to get up to turn the compressor on if I'm driving down some trail and want to raise up the rear end for an obstacle. I considered using an upfitter switch, but I want to save my two remaining switches for lights and possibly something else down the road.

If I'm airing up tires or blowing out the van or doing something else with the compressor, I'm already standing so walking 2-10ft to turn on the compressor switch doesn't bother me (or if I'm getting out to air down I'd be starting from the drivers seat anyways to go do that).

For the relay, it's a 40ft run (one way), not 15ft. So at 5A, I'd get 5% voltage drop with 10 AWG. I could probably get away with 12 or 14, but I have some extra 10 AWG I wired from behind the driver seat (in the wall) - under the floor and to my electrical cabinet in the back passenger area, so I'll probably just use/extend that.

I am going to have to reconsider if I want to do the digital pressure gauges and solenoids though. They require so many extra fittings, I'm considering just going to a manual pneumatic air dump/fill gage. Routing three 1/4" air hoses from the rear underbody up into the dash or headliner would be a pain, but it's not impossible. I have to explore the routing options a bit more, but it'd be ~$300 cheaper I'm guessing, and probably a lot less to fail. Packaging the solenoids and fittings off the tank is also something that concerns me, Vixen Air makes a really nice manifold for two bags, its expensive (about $75 more than going with the DIY solenoid route, and the DIY route includes 4 spare solenoids) - but makes mounting and routing lines in the back much nicer.

Here's the manual fill/dump gauge: https://www.amazon.com/26229-200-psi-Needle-Air-Gauge/dp/B001F12LZA/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1KNDY44SBEVKC&keywords=dual+needle+air+gauge&qid=1649449083&sprefix=dual+needle+air+gauge,aps,134&sr=8-4

And the Vixen Air Manifold: Amazon.com

 

[greenvan]

Good Thread,
I have installed the single motor ARB under 2 transits, tucked behind the passenger side slider foot well under the van. no issues (yet) I run mine off the factory up fitter switches, so van has to be running. I ran DOT air brake tubing and used brass quick connect fittings for that tube. i used brass bulkhead fittings and mounted air chucks in both slider foot wells (i have all the sliders, lol) works slick.

 

[mototreks]

Good Thread,
I have installed the single motor ARB under 2 transits, tucked behind the passenger side slider foot well under the van. no issues (yet) I run mine off the factory up fitter switches, so van has to be running. I ran DOT air brake tubing and used brass quick connect fittings for that tube. i used brass bulkhead fittings and mounted air chucks in both slider foot wells (i have all the sliders, lol) works slick.

How susceptible is that location to water during stream crossings? And, did you use the air intake relocation kit?

 

[Captadv]

@greenvan ; Did you see @mototreks ; question about water fording in that compressor location?

 

[njvagabond]

in my opinion, air compressors should be treated like winches and wired to the starting battery and used with vehicle running (ie, charging). at least that is the way i have always wired them but open to hearing good arguments the other way. not critical to have vehicle running when running compressor, especially for air bags or small items. but airing up tires for sure

Say you have a house battery and alternator charging. If you are airing up and then will be driving long enough to charge the house battery back up then wouldn't it make sense to run the compressor off the house battery instead of idling the van? This assumes the house battery is of sufficient size and SOC. If SOC is not sufficient you can still idle while running compressor (al be it, with some charging efficiency loss vs running from vehicle battery). If you have a large compressor with a high start up load and your house battery is not large enough support that high amp draw that's a reason to run off the house battery.

You have experience, I do not, so I could very well be missing something.

 

[ArgonautVans]

It depends on your setup, that advice is based off traditional assumptions about vehicle electrical setups and capabilities. Extreme OutBack originally cautioned me to only hook up to the starter batteries, but it really depends on your house electrical system capabilities. Most overlanding rigs don't have a house battery, or if they do it's likely a small one and may not even be lithium. Definitely not up to supporting 40-90A continuous loads. Even a 150A alternator is a bad idea supporting a 90A load at idle with all the other vehicle loads. If you have other loads pulling off a lithium house bank, a 100 Ah lithium wouldn't be good to use either. Need at least 200 Ah, and cannot be running things like AC off it at the same time. I wouldn't use a Magnum compressor off the starter batteries unless you have at least 250A of alternator power

BUT - I have 810Ah of Battleborn lithium in my house bank, which can support 810A draw continuously haha. So I am hooking up my Magnum compressor the house bank bus bars. Extreme Outback also told me not to use chassis ground for the compressor (connect to battery negative), which is worth noting, but I didn't probe further about why. If you used CCP2 for example, I'm not quite sure where ground should be. My negative bus bar goes to my house battery bank negative and is grounded to the chassis, so should be fine. My ~200A of B2B from my twin Sterlings should be able to support the compressor running and my 12V DC rooftop AC at the same time too while still charging the battery bank if the engine is running. I'll often use the compressor when the engine is running, but I can comfortably use it with the engine off too.

Electric blowoff valves are a good idea in general as they reduce startup amps as well.

 

[RobbieWoods]

I've been very happy with the Viair 400P, which is popular with off roaders for good reason. I got the automatic version and I'm glad I did. Was like $220 new on an ebay competitor site. I thought about mounting it underneath but it's too dirty down there, so I usually just pack it. It's very easy to setup; 1-2 minutes tops, and always clean as a whistle inside it's carry case. I rigged up a fused always hot connection to CCP2 that sits right there by the open driver's door. I use it often. More about that here.

But so far I don't have air bag plans, or really need compressed air for anything. The factory rake plus the VC lift kit (no bilsteins up front) have made it so that even with most of my big ticket heavy items installed the rear is still higher than the front, so rear airbags would only make it worse (that annoying ~80mph drone sound is gone though). I typically park with the front facing uphill to help overcome this. When on level ground or if I can't face uphill, I can press just the head lift button on my adjustable bed remote for a second. But that only buys about 1-2" before it starts to feel awkward at the hip/chest area while sleeping, and I have to remember to do it every night. A little side to side tilt isn't a huge deal because the bed faces front to back, but I guess it would be nice to be perfectly level on that axis. I just can't tell if air bags and all the gear to make them work are worth the effort. Here's a shot of the adjustable before I put the mattress on. I friggin love this thing. Have used one at home for decades.
View attachment 169482
For people with side to side beds, I could see air bags being more useful, but again, with a VC lift and no Bilstein's, you might have a rake even after your build is complete, so airing up either rear bag would make it worse, which might cause you to roll out of your bed, or be at a diagonal. You can build your bed platform to lean towards the back, but it would need to over-lean beyond level and then you'd need to air up both bags by some amount every time, otherwise just using one bag would again create a diagonal or forward lean/roll.

I've read a few people on the forum say they won't drive with the bags inflated anymore. Not sure what that's all about, but might be worth looking into.

Anyhow with the 400P Automatic I have no problems airing down and back up without interruption even on hot days. The automatic stops itself between tire fills, and I usually only drop 5-10 PSI even for thick sand and gnarly death valley jeep trails and just skip filling back up on the way out. If you air down too far, you start giving up ground clearance, which is a bigger issue on most of the rough roads I take, even with 265/75/16's.

The factory PSI ratings on the van are also very high because they have to cover even heavily loaded rigs, and while my build has a massive power system, it's still not heavy enough that 5 PSI matters, yet that's usually all it takes to trim the edge off of the ride harshness and improve traction a bit. I've been through insanely thick sand like that without any issues. Just gotta keep a bit of momentum. You can go much slower if you really air down but then you definitely need to stop and fill up on the way out, and again, you lose some ground clearance.

I find I'm usually not in the mood to pull over to refill after I get off the jeep trail and back onto the nearest highway...something about craving a burger, or just looking forward to getting to my next stop. Hard to say why exactly, but my brother is the same way. When it's time to go, it's time to go.

Cheers.

Not bad , not bad)))