New Van Didn't Get Far.

161561 Views 548 Replies 70 Participants Last post by Doug Dornbos, Jul 21, 2019

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · Nov 18, 2015

Picked up my new T150 today at 1:30. Back to the dealer at 1:45.

Bad shimmy at 60, and pulling left. Tech test drive confirmed.

Sitting at the dealer as I speak waiting for balance an alignment.

Beautiful van though.

41 - 60 of 549 Posts

Whitedog

· #41 · Jan 21, 2016

Yeah, the serrated ones like a bread knife. They really tear it up something fierce.

It would be interesting to take it to a good alignment shop and don't tell them the history, just tell them it pulls and you want an independent evaluation before taking it to the dealer. This way they are less tainted to find something that isn't there.

Reactions: 1

Byron the Painter

· #42 · Jan 21, 2016

Whitedog said:
It would be interesting to take it to a good alignment shop and don't tell them the history,

Sorry Whitedog, but I completely disagree with this. I would want them to examine the entire subframe (front end chassis is what it is, actually) and all it's connection points. Looking for possible damage is the purpose...no need to have them come back and ask "What the heck happened"?

I wouldn't assume that everyone is incompetent or out to rip me off. But then again, I'm a good mechanic and know what to look for...damage, when pointed out, is easy enough for even a layman to see. Show me, don't tell me...works every time.

If something is found, take pictures...then it's back into the drama pit.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #43 · Jan 21, 2016

Getting the alignment checked by an independent is of limited value. The Ford Rep made it clear they will not recognize any third party opinion. As it stands now the Ford laser alignment printout shows all within Ford Specs. The problem is now the steering rack.

The only thing that will settle me down on this vehicle is an extended Ford warranty.

Byron the Painter

· #44 · Jan 21, 2016 (Edited)

Well there ya go!!!! DEMAND a free one for your troubles!!!!

I sincerely hope when you drive it again it feels right, but I'd get it scoped out by another shop just to be on the safe side. Whatever you do, good luck.

Reactions: 1

EddieZ

· #45 · Jan 21, 2016

jonsobi said:
Getting the alignment checked by an independent is of limited value. The Ford Rep made it clear they will not recognize any third party opinion. As it stands now the Ford laser alignment printout shows all within Ford Specs. The problem is now the steering rack.

The only thing that will settle me down on this vehicle is an extended Ford warranty.

An ESP extended service plan is what you're likely to get. I had had a check engine light at 300 miles. It took nearly a month, and numerous visits to the dealership to get it resolved. As a consolation, the Ford case rep gave me an ESP. An ESP represents some value in general, but, I doubt an ESP would cover frame and alignment.

WRT the independent shop idea... I think it would be worth trying to get Ford to foot the bill for a second opinion. The idea here is not necessarily to get an opinion that Ford will recognize, but to get an opinion that will make you feel OK about the van. That's a difference that you may be able to get across to the Ford rep. The difficulty, though, is that Ford would have to pay out of pocket for this. The ESP costs them nothing.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #46 · Jan 21, 2016

EddieZ said:
An ESP extended service plan is what you're likely to get. I had had a check engine light at 300 miles. It took nearly a month, and numerous visits to the dealership to get it resolved. As a consolation, the Ford case rep gave me an ESP. An ESP represents some value in general, but, I doubt an ESP would cover frame and alignment.

WRT the independent shop idea... I think it would be worth trying to get Ford to foot the bill for a second opinion. The idea here is not necessarily to get an opinion that Ford will recognize, but to get an opinion that will make you feel OK about the van. That's a difference that you may be able to get across to the Ford rep. The difficulty, though, is that Ford would have to pay out of pocket for this. The ESP costs them nothing.

Thanks for the input from your situation. An ESP would be welcome, as long as it protected me from any future mechanical failures, unusual tire wear, or anything related to the front half of the van (what else is there?).

What mileage and deductible was your ESP if you don't mind me asking? Do you know its approximate retail value?

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #47 · Jan 21, 2016

Byron the Painter said:
Well there ya go!!!! DEMAND a free one for your troubles!!!!

I sincerely hope when you drive it again it feels right, but I'd get it scoped out by another shop just to be on the safe side. Whatever you do, good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate your support!

EddieZ

· #48 · Jan 21, 2016

jonsobi said:
Thanks for the input from your situation. An ESP would be welcome, as long as it protected me from any future mechanical failures, unusual tire wear, or anything related to the front half of the van (what else is there?).

What mileage and deductible was your ESP if you don't mind me asking? Do you know its approximate retail value?

They gave me a PremiumCare ESP, which they call 5 years, 75K miles... really, more an extension of 2 years, 39K miles over the factory bumper-to-bumper coverage. I had asked that it be with no deductible, but, it came with $100 deductible... probably the only way they're authorized to give the ESP. I had checked the ESP price on the Ford website, and, I think it came up at $1500. I have heard that the ESP plans are widely variable and competitive among dealers that sell them, so, the same plan might have been get-able for less.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #49 · Jan 21, 2016

That's good information for me to have, thanks.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #50 · Jan 22, 2016

Day 8 In The Shop

Got a call from Josh, my SA at Horne.

The steering assembly arrived, but he wants to wait for his senior tech to do the install. I am good with that.

Should get underway and be completed tomorrow.

Josh had my water-damaged air filter replaced for me and mentioned a new letter from Ford was Just released dealing with the air filter issue for 2015s, not sure about the 2016s.

We talked about the chipped alloy rims. I told him the last thing I want is to mess with the new, road-force balanced tires, given the trouble we went thru to sort them. We agreed that some form of consideration or compensation TBD thru the Service Manager was the most realistic approach. I'm good with that.

Good people really do make all the difference in such doings as this fiasco. I could probably drift down the bent and twisted path over this if I let myself, but its hard to get mad at this Horne crew.

Josh is one of those rare sincere, conscientious, and hard working front-line lads with the best of intentions. He listens, explains things patiently in whatever detail I need, and certainly has a good technical grasp of what is going on in the pit. Nary a word of BS from him have I had to endure.

The Service Manager is also a patient listener and as good as his word. He stick-handles the demands of the reasonable customer within the constraints imposed by the Big Blue Oval. He knows how to let you walk away feeling like you scored a goal once in a while. Not an unimportant skill.

Its just hard to fault this crew. The best I have ever encountered in such a situation.

Credit given when due.

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Reactions: 2

Whitedog

· #51 · Jan 22, 2016

It sounds like you are extremely happy with them so be sure to send a written letter to them to let you know your feelings about the service you have received. Even if they can't fix it, it sounds like they have done this best to take care of you and Im certain they would like to hear that.

Byron the Painter

· #52 · Jan 22, 2016

Well you sound like a happy man, all nice and mellow! Things went off the rails when you wrote "crow bars and come-alongs" Waiting for the bolts, the whole subframe drama was completely unnecessary. Sucks how we all have to live through crap like this sometimes.

All it has to do now is drive straight, baby! I'll predict right now that'll happen. Glad you're feeling good.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #53 · Jan 22, 2016

Yeah, thanks, feel better for the moment.

That can still change in a heartbeat tomorrow.

And still have a bone to pick with the Blue Oval.

Will write a letter for Josh.

Will keep you posted.

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #54 · Jan 22, 2016 (Edited)

Steering assembly took all day to install. Was a major PITA. That causes me renewed concerns.

Front end is now being aligned again. Will not be finished today.

I am more anxious today than since this all started.

I know enough about mechanics to cringe at the things the poor tech had to loosen, remove, pull, twist, pry and coax, to get that awkward assembly out and then back in. I imagine the cussing and screaming to put all the removed and loosened parts back together. Did it all go back as per the assembly line?

Everything is coordinated and controlled on the assembly line in a sequence. But above your head on a hoist with skinned knuckles?

I wrote to Ford this morning stating I could not accept the vehicle back without hearing a detailed response from them. The dealer has done yeoman's work, but Ford owes me a detailed explanation.

Nothing heard back yet.

I am prepared to never drive that van again if they are not forthcoming with something substantive, and soon.

I no longer have a new, special ordered $43k vehicle fresh off the assembly line.

It has been messed with.

Don't think I can accept that and just drive it away.

Maybe I'll feel better in the morning, but I doubt it. I am starting to get a bad feeling about this.

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airmengarrettm

· #55 · Jan 22, 2016

jonsobi said:
Everything is coordinated and controlled on the assembly line in a sequence. But above your head on a hoist with skinned knuckles?

I wrote to Ford this morning stating I could not accept the vehicle back without hearing a detailed response from them. The dealer has done yeoman's work, but Ford owes me a detailed explanation.

Nothing heard back yet.

I am prepared to never drive that van again if they are not forthcoming with something substantive, and soon.

jonsobi,

I agree with your worries and your approach, I hope you report later that Ford responded to your concerns with a substantial answer!!!

Whitedog

· #56 · Jan 23, 2016

jonsobi said:
Steering assembly took all day to install. Was a major PITA. That causes me renewed concerns.

Front end is now being aligned again. Will not be finished today.

I am more anxious today than since this all started.

I know enough about mechanics to cringe at the things the poor tech had to loosen, remove, pull, twist, pry and coax, to get that awkward assembly out and then back in. I imagine the cussing and screaming to put all the removed and loosened parts back together. Did it all go back as per the assembly line?

Everything is coordinated and controlled on the assembly line in a sequence. But above your head on a hoist with skinned knuckles?

I wrote to Ford this morning stating I could not accept the vehicle back without hearing a detailed response from them. The dealer has done yeoman's work, but Ford owes me a detailed explanation.

Nothing heard back yet.

I am prepared to never drive that van again if they are not forthcoming with something substantive, and soon.

I no longer have a new, special ordered $43k vehicle fresh off the assembly line.

It has been messed with.

Don't think I can accept that and just drive it away.

Maybe I'll feel better in the morning, but I doubt it. I am starting to get a bad feeling about this.

Wishing you the best. This seems to have you frustrated and non-confident about your van. That is understandable. Just imagine the Ford Powerstroke guys that have to have their cab pulled for major work on the engine. No way that it will be just like factory fresh, but their love for their trucks makes them shrug off the potential problems.

Or imagine the guys that bought Deere equipment with the early 6.9L engines with the potential for broken cranks. I put in half a dozen of them and - even though I know I did my best - things like coolant hoses that were stuck on had to be grabbed with a pair of grabbers and it's not factory fresh anymore. It can certainly cause heartache and discombobulation, but in the end, it's just a van. Metal and plastic and boron and aluminum and copper and glass and ... and ... There are other things in life to worry about and if it still bugs you, visit me in your travels. Within half a mile of my shop are about five microbreweries and at least three Marijuana processors.

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jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #57 · Jan 23, 2016

'll be right over Dog!!!

jonsobi

Discussion Starter · #58 · Jan 23, 2016

Latest Update

Since my last post, I spoke with the Scott, the Service Manager.

Its official, the steering gear replacement did not resolve the problem. The van still veers left. He is not happy with it, and he suspects I won't be.

He also noted a continued problem with the right camber alignment. Seems there simply isn't enough adjustment room to get it where it needs to be.

I told him I really don't want this van any more, but that's not his call.

No response from the Ford Regional Rep who, it turns out, is located in Florida.

That's quite a region to cover, so I don't see me getting much face time.

Two months and 2K into my conversion. Should not be hard to take it apart and start again.

Irony. I quite liked the Promaster as a conversion platform but picked the Transit for its build quality and reliability. What do I know?

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airmengarrettm

· #59 · Jan 23, 2016

jonsobi said:
Irony. I quite liked the Promaster as a conversion platform but picked the Transit for its build quality and reliability. What do I know?

At the moment you're extremely annoyed and disappointed, but lets say you spring for a Promaster after a successful lemon law re-purchase from Ford (yeah I know I'm jumping ahead...way ahead), who knows maybe the Promaster will turn out to be much much better for your conversion plans?!!!

I'm just trying to find a silver lining for you!

alarmist

· #60 · Jan 23, 2016

You made the right call. Sh*t happens.

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