[epiphVANy]

Hi all,

I’m new to the forum (this in only my second post) but I’ve been reading lots of your posts and build threads with great interest. There is a wealth of great information here and its fantastic that you all take the time to document your experiences (positive or negative) with the group. Thank you for sharing!

I’m currently facing a quandary . . . trying to decide between a wagon and a van. I’m hoping to tap the collective knowledge of this great group for some advice.

A bit of background on what I’m hoping to do . . .

I’ve decided to try living the van life and am looking for a van that I can live in, travel in and work in (I’m a graphic designer). I’ll be living in the van full time and plan to spend a couple of years traversing Canada and the USA. If all goes well, I’ll then head south to Mexico and Central America.

I’ve looked at the Sprinter and Promaster but have dismissed both of those options and am looking to purchase a Transit. The competitive price, parts / service availability and fact that I’m not tied to diesel make the Transit the best choice for me. I really like the idea of purchasing a new van but would also consider a lightly used one if I could find one that met my criteria.

I’ve decided on the high roof, long wheelbase option. With living in the van full time, I think the extra height will really make a difference. I did consider the extended wheelbase, but think it will be a bit too big. The long wheelbase, should be a bit more nimble and easier to find parking, etc. I plan to do a lot of stealth camping, so want the van to look as stock and unassuming possible. At the moment, I will be travelling alone (no pets, no s/o,) but that may change in the future.

Sadly, I do not have the mechanical, construction or electrical skills that many members of this forum seem to have. I’ve read many of your build threads . . . and have turned green with envy at the things you are able to accomplish on your own. So, doing the conversion myself will not really be a viable option, and that leaves me with having to pay for an expensive conversion. From the research I’ve done, this seems to be a $60,000 - $100,000+ commitment. Also, there seems to be a long wait time with some of the conversion companies that I’ve approached, so getting it done quickly (i.e. in less than a year) doesn’t seem too likely at this point.

So, my plan it to purchase a Transit (either van or wagon) and basically camp in it for while, until I can finalize plans, timeframes and finances to hire someone to do the conversion. Depending on finances and where I end up travelling, I may need to do the conversion is stages.

I’m currently leaning towards the wagon, due to it having a higher level of basic fit and finish and that the fact that it already has heat / ac plumbed in. I think it would be more comfortable to “camp” in, until I can get a proper build done.

Anyway, any advice you are able to offer on the van vs wagon conundrum would be much appreciated! Sorry for the long-winded intro! Thank you.

 

[EddieZ]

When debating van-wagon with intent to do camper conversion, I think the best case for wagon is if you need to seat more than one additional person... and, it sounds like that's not your case. Your strongest 'maybe' for a wagon seems to be some level of immediate comfort, for an undetermined period of time. That makes it interesting.

You've been reading, so are probably aware of the wagon features somewhat limiting or frustrating a camper van build. My memory is getting hazy on the "builder prep" package... it adds some interior trim, but no seats. I can't remember if it includes windows, which you'd be better off without. Check it out, if you are ordering a van.

EDIT -- How much benefit would you really get from wagon heat and AC? Those are for passengers, in back, when you're driving down the road.

 

[USMC Vet]

Jolly Roger,

Welcome to the forum.

You might search some of the large conversion companies for 2015 models they still have on their lots that are already converted. Mass produced conversions seem to be cheaper than individual attempts.

Another option is to see if CrewVanMan knows of any fitting your requirements, that have popped up on his screen.

Lastly, by next year there may be some of the forum members that converted a 2015, looking to upgrade (?) so they can make improvements.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Semper Fi

 

[epiphVANy]

Hi guys, Thanks for the replies. Yes, my thinking on the wagon is to have some basic level of comfort for however long it takes me to sort out a build / conversion and the wagon looks like it may offer a little more in that regard. As for the windows . . . I'm on the fence about those. Having no windows would certainly be stealthier and give me more options in terms of layouts. On the flip side, if I'm living and working in the van full time I don't want it to be too cave like. It would be nice to park somewhere with a view that I can enjoy while I'm working. So in that regard, having extra windows would be a nice option. Like everything in life, there are pros and cons, swings and roundabouts. I will look at some existing conversions and see what's available, although most of what I've seen so far are the typical RV style units . . . with all kinds of crap hanging off them and the need to be plugged in to shore power if you want to use anything electrical for more than 5 minutes. Okay, I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean. My timeline is perhaps to order a van in the summer when the employee pricing promo kicks in. The dealer I've been speaking to says I could probably reduce my overall cost by about $8,000 CDN if I wait to that time. If I order one then it would probably be January / February before it arrives here. That would work for me as I'm going to rent a little place in Mexico for a few months . . . . probably Sept - Jan . . . to chill, decompress, etc. I'm guessing that if I do decide to go with an existing conversion . . . it would be better to perhaps go shopping for one in the fall / winter when demand is lower??? Or perhaps demand be higher at that time with all the snowbirds wanting to leave Canada and head south to warmer climes. I'll keep reading all the great info on this forum and will keep my eyes open to see what's out there. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[orton]

The minimum windows I would have are the slider and the two back windows. Work on your interior layout first. You may end up covering the window area with cabinets.

Some ideas for a stealth camper here:

http://www.ortontransit.info/

 

[danketchpel]

I was on the fence about windows when I was ordering our cargo van. I finally decided for my purposes it was better to have the windows (with privacy glass) and then do window coverings (not sure which type yet) on the inside for camping or stealth purposes.

Originally I was looking for a "Crew" setup with only a window in the sliding door and a matching one behind the driver, then only the rear doors. I couldn't get that from Ford, why? dunno.... So my reasoning for getting the all around options was that it's cheaper/better to get all the OEM glass installed than to have only a single window installed aftermarket and by going "windows all around" I have the flexibility to close off what I don't want open as needed by using some form of interior covering. I'm thinking to make up light weight solid panels that either snap, magnet, or velcro on the window frame for coverings when I'm camping. I'll probably end up with a mix of solid blanking panels and some form of curtain/sliding shade covering.

I also kinda liked how the dark windows looked on the outside. They break up the large side panels. I did opt for the 1st row popout windows for ventilation.

 

[EddieZ]

If not a window wagon, maybe set up so you have a foldout work area that has you sitting in front of the sliding door.

 

[epiphVANy]

The minimum windows I would have are the slider and the two back windows. Work on your interior layout first. You may end up covering the window area with cabinets.

Some ideas for a stealth camper here:

http://www.ortontransit.info/

Thanks Orton. I actually spent about 1.5 hours looking going through your site last night and delving into your build. It looks great and its good of you to take so much time and effort to document everything for the group. On the one hand I found it very inspirational, on the other hand it made me realize how much work is involved in a quality build and how totally incapable I would be of doing something like that myself.

 

[epiphVANy]

That's a sweet looking rig danketchpel. Yes, I'm leaning towards more windows. Yes, its a lot easier to black out an existing window(s) on a wagon as opposed to cutting through the metal body on a van if you decide you need more windows.

EddieZ . . . yes I could set-up some kind of folding work area by the slider . . . but the more I think about it, the more I like having the options of windows and covering them when I need privacy.

 

[RandomJoe]

You can get all-around windows (and privacy glass) in a van as well, that's what I did. You can even get the little flip-out windows if you want. (Unfortunately the back edge opens, not the bottom, so they aren't as useful as the camper-van awning-style windows. Some have found them to be flimsy and prone to breaking too.)


From what I've read here, unless you need to have more than one passenger while driving, my preference - were I in your position - would be to get the van.

- The rear AC/heat only works with the engine running. The rear AC unit takes up a fair amount of space right at the back door.

- The rear heat ducts are under the floor, AC ducts in the ceiling. Could be difficult to work around when doing a build, definitely takes up a few inches of vertical space.

- There is a side-curtain airbag all the way down the driver's side, which is enclosed in a (to me) pretty bulky trim piece. Requires either removal of the airbag and trim, or compromises with the build. Leaving the airbag and trim in means losing some horizontal space at head level.

- If you don't need the extra seats, you have to either store them somewhere or sell them off. Then you have the mounting tracks in the floor. The way my luck goes there'll be one right under the foot of the table or chair or whatever-it-is I'm setting up at any given time. That's also where any spills will go!


It's no difficulty insulating the van, just a bit tedious. You would likely do a better job than Ford does on the wagons. (Just a cynical guess - I haven't seen inside the walls of a wagon but I doubt they go too far with insulation on a commercial vehicle.) Adding some simple panels to cover the walls is fairly easy too. Biggest challenge (for me) so far is that there aren't many straight lines. Or maybe that's a benefit - since I can't cut a straight line to save my life...

The full builds are certainly quite involved, I doubt mine will ever look anything close to what I've seen here - unless I get my dad (and his garage full of woodworking tools) to provide lots of assistance!


Just my opinion, based on limited exposure to the wagons. I didn't even look at them beyond a brief glance at the dealership, so mostly just pics and posts I've seen here.


Also, do you have the Order Guide? If not, PM CrewVanMan your email address and he can send you a copy. It lists every option available for each version of the van and wagon. There's a crazy variety of options, and some really strange / arbitrary limitations too.

 

[CrewVanMan]

There are still a lot of NEW 2015 Transits that are HIGH ROOF models in the van or wagon configuration. Right off these models could save you close to $10K off the sticker price. Looks to be over 400+ of these vehicles all over the USA. Your location via zip code would help to put you in the range of one of these Transits that you could look at and maybe come up with the start of your search for the choice vehicle.

Anderson Ford in Lincoln, NE has some base 2015 models HR 148" WB window vans that start out at $33,000. Best to come up with all the options you want, then see if you can locate one. Right now if you ordered one, it would be a 2017 model.

 

[CrewVanMan]

If you get down in the Florida area, I can send you to a friend of mine who converted a HR 148" Extended Body DRW Transit into a traveling selling and living vehicle. It is fully equipped with all the add-ons like solar power, satellite radio and TV, and separate heat and cooling system. He went with the Transit Wagon and the Builders Prep package as he did not want to mess with the extra seats.

Send me your direct email via PM and I can send you pictures of it.

 

[epiphVANy]

Thanks RandonJoe . . . lots of good info and advice there. Yes, I do have the order guide. I downloaded the 2017 version for a link that I found here on this forum. I'll go through it in more detail and see what configurations would work.

 

[epiphVANy]

If you get down in the Florida area, I can send you to a friend of mine who converted a HR 148" Extended Body DRW Transit into a traveling selling and living vehicle. It is fully equipped with all the add-ons like solar power, satellite radio and TV, and separate heat and cooling system. He went with the Transit Wagon and the Builders Prep package as he did not want to mess with the extra seats.

Send me your direct email via PM and I can send you pictures of it.

Thanks CrewVanMan. I live near Vancouver, BC so can't easily pop down to Florida . . . although I would have loved to see your friends van. I'll send you my email as I'd love to see some photos.

Thanks for the other info, I'll probably order a 2017 with the specs that I want / need as opposed to looking at the 2015 models. My dealer here has told me I can save about $8,000 (inc taxes), when the summer employee pricing and other incentives kick in, so that will make ordering a new one a bit more palatable.

 

[hammerhome]

Jolly Roger,

Since your on the west coast, you can get your van and then head down to Portland and have some of your work done here in stages at van specialties.
You really just need a bed, heat and electrics.
Your probably looking at $10-15k
If you do the insulation yourself, and have it prepped for them.
Soon CRlawrence will have camping Windows finished for the transit. I ordered mine with side window in the slider and rear windows all privacy glass. When CR finishes making the Windows I will replace the slider window and install a driver side window to get the light and ventilation to avoid the cave look.
I think you can do this for way less than $20k total and have a clean basic van. Some of the tasks are not as hard as you think.
Good luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[epiphVANy]

Thanks Hammerhome

I have contacted both Van Specialties and OutsideVan for some initial info. OV got back to me right away, followed up with a phone call and gave me a ballpark figure. In reply to my initial query, VS simply sent me a blank email (no "Hi", no "Thanks for getting in touch", no "How can we help you") with just their address and opening hours. Perhaps whoever replied to me as having a bad day or was really busy, but as a business owner myself, I would never be so dismissive of a potential client. Still, I'm always happy to give people a second chance so will try and follow up with them again to see what can be done. I may take a trip down the coast to visit both companies and see what they do first hand. You are right that at this point I just need the basics (insulation, power, bed, heat, etc.). I'd be interested in seeing what your windows look like when you get them installed. That may be a good solution for what I'm looking for. Thanks for the info.

 

[epiphVANy]

Send me your direct email via PM and I can send you pictures of it.

Thanks for sending me the pics and info so quickly. Much appreciated.

 

[jethaden]

I would still do (having done) a cargo van, 148, high (or possibly medium) roof. The high roof is really high. Seeing that fact more and more as I use it. I really think the choice between medium and high is how much time you are standing vs how much time you are sitting. And how tall you are. I would still do a cargo van due to all the things you have to remove from the wagon in order to make a camper (like rear A/C duct to add maxfan, back side airbags, and interior siding steals a lot of space). Builders Prep package always sounded interesting, but check price of Wagon minus Builders Prep (which was not that big a discount when I ordered my van) vs cargo with all of your options added you would get in the former (like windows).

 

[epiphVANy]

Thanks Jethaden,

I'm around 5'9" so not super tall. However, I think having the additional headroom and space that the tall van provides would make the van more comfortable if I'm living in it full time. I can't think of too many scenarios where the height of the tall van would cause me problems, although I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's found the tall van an issue. At this point I have no idea how much time I'd be standing . . . I guess that will depend on how I ultimately kit it out. But I have a feeling that if I got the medium roof version, I'd regret not having the extra head room. Using the online pricing tool, the van does come out quite a bit cheaper than the wagon. I could probably muddle through the install of the insulation, so perhaps I'll look at going that route and saving some $$ which I could then put toward the interior build.

 

[orton]

I tried to make a medium high van work but could not. I am 5'-10" and wanted a raised insulated floor. Medium height would not allow the raised floor.

The high roof allowed a 30" high bed platform with enough head clearance to sit up in bed without hitting the bottom front edge of the overhead cabinets. Also like the storage space available over the slider door. Medium roof and high roof have the same height slider so wall space above slider is available.