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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
...being powerful and/or fast.

In reality, Harley-Davidson motorcycles are tremendously impotent.

Harley-Davidson is too embarrassed to list horsepower numbers on their web sites, because the horsepower of even their largest and most expensive engines (the 1923cc CVO 117 engines) is less than just about any sporting motorcycle of over 400cc and two cylinders made in the last quarter of a century.

Harley-Davidson is also too embarrassed to post any performance numbers. Fortunately, the Michigan State Police tests police vehicles every year and publishes a report. The 2019 report includes three 1,868cc Harleys (a stock one, a "Stage 1" modified one, and a "Stage 2" modified one). BMW submitted two 853cc bikes and a 1,254cc bike (all stock). And Yamaha submitted a 1,298cc motorcycle.

In terms of top speed, the 1,298cc Yamaha went 144 mph. The 1,254cc BMW went 137 mph. The two 853cc BMWs went 118 mph and 113 mph. And the 1,868cc Harleys were in a three-way tie for dead last at 109 mph, which is less than the electronically-restricted top speed of a Toyota Pious.

On a road course, the three Harleys once again finished dead last. The 1,254cc BMW was 11-13 seconds a lap faster than the 1,868cc Harleys, the 1,298cc Yamaha and one of the 853cc BMWs was 9-11 seconds a lap faster than the 1,868cc Harleys, and the other 853cc BMW was 7-9 seconds a lap faster than the 1,868cc Harleys.

They also did braking tests, but I'm not going to bother typing out the numbers- the Harleys finished dead last again.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2019MYPoliceVehicleEvaluationTestBook_639203_7.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Maybe that explains the absurdly loud exhaust they all seem to need. My yamaha sounds like a sewing machine and runs off from those harleys.
That actually has nothing to with the motorcycle. Taking the mufflers off of a Harley doesn't materially make the performance less bad.

There's another reason they remove the mufflers. And although Harley owners typically have one or two excuses that they offer, I've never heard one honest enough to admit to the REAL reason they take the mufflers off.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"Everyone look at me, I have a loud motorcycle"
Bingo!

but loud pipes save lives!

BS
Yes, it is BS.

Why is it that they think Harley-Davidson motorcycles are the only brand of motorcycles that require removing the mufflers, to make them safe to operate on public roads? I think my motorcycle is MUCH safer to ride than a Harley-Davidson, because my motorcycle will brake, corner, and accelerate better than a Harley-Davidson.

If they think loud pipes save lives, imagine what wearing proper safety gear, not drinking, and actually learning how to ride could do.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
An EXCELLENT video.

But I wouldn't use the word "riders"- the word "rider" implies that the person actually knows how to ride. In my experience, virtually none of them know how to ride.

It is particularly challenging when I go to ride my motorcycle up on the mountain, and those goof-balls are operating their mobile whoopie-cushions substantially below the posted speed limit, wobbling all over the road, completely oblivious to the traffic they're holding up. And because they don't know how to ride, they also don't do a very good job of holding their lane position so that I can slip past them, or even staying in their own lane so they don't come around corners head-on in the wrong lane. I'll still interrupt my day to stop to render first-aid, to call police, ambulance, and tow trucks for them, but I'm not pulling any more of those things out of the ditches. I think they belong there.

 

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Well, this a lot of pomp about a declining issue. Only Boomers ride Harleys, and thankfully they are dying off at an exponentially increasing rate.
Here in Richmond we have young people and their sideshows causing similar annoyance and safety issues. Just a couple days ago there were over 100 of them at the Carquinez Bridge, and one jumped off a 50' onramp to try to avoid capture by the police. It didn't work.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, this a lot of pomp about a declining issue. Only Boomers ride Harleys, and thankfully they are dying off at an exponentially increasing rate.
Actually, almost no one rides Harleys.

A lot of people own them, and most of those owners operate them on public roads from time to time, but I really wouldn't use the word "ride" or "rider" to describe what they do or who they are. The word "rider" implies that they actually know how to ride, and in my experience, almost none of them do.
 

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ok, sit on them with the motor running and go on the roads under their own propulsion, then. I guess that would be called "operating" them?
 
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(I am not always good about putting things into words.)

Loud pipes on a Harley almost seem suicidal, The general public Hates them, leading to indifference towards all people on motorcycles.
(Roadrage is a thing nowadays...)
 

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Asked one Harley rider why his motor was vibrating so much. It was visibly shaking the handle bars. Clearly had a huge cam in it. He replied "how else would I be able to tell it's running". OMG at that point I was really done with Harley riders.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
.
Van drivers, who suffer sterotypes and discrimination, stereotyping and discriminating Harley riders.
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As I have pointed out previously, almost none of them are actually "riders", although almost all Harley operators will claim that they are riders.

One of the common lies I hear from non-riding motorcyclists, is that they "had to lay her down" to avoid a crash. I have a news flash- that IS crashing. As if a fringed black pleather a$$-less costume and chrome-plated skull ornaments made in China sliding across asphalt, offered better steering control and braking, as opposed to an inflated rubber tire attached to handlebars and a brake. That "had to lay her down" lie is something they make up afterwards, because they have no idea how they ended up on the ground. But I know...
 
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