[markley]

Okay, so I have read through countless posts discussing different electrical set-ups and while I have learned a bunch, I still am not confident that what I am thinking about doing will work. Specifically in regards to compatibility and required components. I am considering three options and hoping to get some feedback. I realize that there is a lot of other components that I need, but I am just trying to compare the “big” picture items to be sure that I am starting on the right foot. Then I can get into the other details. I do want to thank everyone who contributes on this forum. I would be completely clueless (as opposed to just clueless) if it weren't for all the electrical diagrams and dialogue. And a huge thanks to FarOutRide for the detail you put into your site!! I have used it for guidance a ton! I am also hoping this thread will help out other rookies like myself.

Background: I would like to design a system that will work for a year long excursion around the US. I would guess that our longest stop (without driving will be 3 days). While I doubt that we will ever stay anywhere that has shore power, I would like to include it in the planning (just never know). Also, I have the single battery, 150 amp alternator. Here is the estimated daily usage: Fridge (32ah), LED lights (4ah), Maxxair fan (5ah), Water pump (1ah), charging phones/tablet (3ah). So that puts me around a total of 45 ah of daily consumption. Based on calculations, the total watt solar panel needs would be just under 200w, and battery amp hours needed around 120 ah. Let me know if any of these estimates seem wrong.


So I am considering these three options:

- First Option Similar to Anchorless

Charging from Solar:
2 -100w Renogy panels
CTEK D250S $214
CTEK Smartpass (necessary for my needs?) $224

Charging while driving:
Use CTEK $0

Shore Power:
Inverter - Magnum MMS1012 $815
*also used for AC circuit
*could I use cheaper alternative? Samlex PST 1000?

Battery System Monitor:
Victron BMV-712 Smart $206
Alternative: Magnum ME-RC 50 $155
Magnum BMK $165

Total Cost: $1,682
*IS VICTRON BMV COMPATIBLE?

PROS:
-Hassle free charging of house battery from both solar and van battery

CONS:
-CTEK limits panel size. Could do 2 – 180w Grape Solar for an additional $250 dollars.
-200 w is at limit of solar needs. Would likely need alternative charging (driving or shore power) or larger battery bank?

- Second Option similar to Far Out Ride

Charging from Solar:
2 - 180w GS $470
Victron BlueSolar MPPT $197

Charging while driving:
Inverter - Samlex PST 1000 $418
Battery charger/converter - Samlex SEC-1230 $218
Samlex RC-15A inverter remote $29
*Will this inverter work with the 150amp alternator? Atoine states that the 230 amp alternator will
easily overcome the inverter draw to allow it to power battery charger/converter. I am not sure what this even means

Shore Power: $0
Uses same battery charger/converter
above to charge house battery

Battery System Monitor:
Victron BMV-712 smart $206
Alternative: Bogart Trimetric 2030 RV Solar $212 (Is this compatible with the controller?)

Total Cost: $1,538

PROS:
-larger panel(s). Would allow a some buffer and/or option to add to electrical demand (water heater? heater?)
-Use same battery/converter for shore power

CONS:
-Have to remember to turn on inverter when driving
-Not ideal if using inverter when parked

- Third Option

Charging from Solar;Single Larger Panel (32 volt):
280 watt panel $230
Victron BlueSolar MPPT (to reduce from 32v to 12v) $197

Charging from Van Battery:
Battery to battery charger - Sterling ST-BBW1260 (60amp) $391

Shore Power:
Inverter - Magnum MMS1012 $815
*also used for AC circuit (could i use Samlex PST 1000?) Samlex PST 1000

Battery System Monitor:
Victron BMV-712 Smart $206
Alternative: Magnum ME-RC 50 $155
Magnum BMK $165

Total Cost: $1,839

PROS:
-I really like the idea of a single larger panel! Which I can get locally with no shipping cost. The only issue is it is an unknown manufacturer (Suniva or Jinko).

CONS:
-Eliminates the hassle free nature of CTEK from the equation.
-Most expensive (that is if components listed are compatible and complete; or related components)? May be cheapest if I can get away with cheaper inverter.

I will say that I am really leaning towards the CTEK as it seems like a nice no hassle way of doing things, especially for a beginner. That and it seems like there are a lot of folks using CTEK with good results. The only thing I don't like is that 23 volt input limits the size of the panels that can be used.

 

[Airedrifter]

A couple of things (I'm a devoted Ctek guy, almost 3 years with no issues)

The limitation on solar with Ctek is 20 amps. (you can always install a 20 amp fuse. I did but the most I've ever seen from 150 watt panel is about 6 amps.) I doubt that will be a problem as it would take a lot of solar panels to exceed 20 amps. Solar panels are rated at max -- like that's ever going to happen. If you don't need the roof for racks, add more solar.

For system monitoring, I have the Xantrex Link Pro. Ctek just came out with their version of this. It should be worth a look at. Currently, as far as I know, the only way to get one is in a bundle.

Good luck.

 

[markley]

A couple of things (I'm a devoted Ctek guy, almost 3 years with no issues)

The limitation on solar with Ctek is 20 amps. (you can always install a 20 amp fuse. I did but the most I've ever seen from 150 watt panel is about 6 amps.) I doubt that will be a problem as it would take a lot of solar panels to exceed 20 amps. Solar panels are rated at max -- like that's ever going to happen. If you don't need the roof for racks, add more solar.

For system monitoring, I have the Xantrex Link Pro. Ctek just came out with their version of this. It should be worth a look at. Currently, as far as I know, the only way to get one is in a bundle.

Good luck.

Thanks for your input! Good to hear that Ctek has not given you any issues. Regarding the 20 amp limitation, that is without the Smartpass correct? Does that not bump that up to handle input of 80 amps? Not that I would likely need that for my solar setup. The Grape Solar 180 w panels list 9 amps as max. May be a dumb question, with 2 of these panels in parallel this would result in 18 amps (at max) correct? Would be close to the 20 amp limitation and would probably throw in a 20 amp fuse in this case.

Also, what would the amps be when charging off the van battery/alternator (via CCP) while driving? Would I need Smartpass for that?

Regarding the Ctek version of system monitoring, is the bundle you are referring to the "off road" kit?

Thanks again!

 

[Airedrifter]

Thanks for your input! Good to hear that Ctek has not given you any issues. Regarding the 20 amp limitation, that is without the Smartpass correct? Does that not bump that up to handle input of 80 amps? Not that I would likely need that for my solar setup. The Grape Solar panels list 9 amps as max. May be a dumb question, would 2 of these panels in parallel result in 18 amps (at max), or would it still be 9?

Also, what would the amps be when charging off the van battery/alternator (via CCP) while driving? Would I need Smartpass for that?

Regarding the Ctek version of system monitoring, is the bundle you are referring to the "off road" kit?

Thanks again!

No. The 20 amp limitation is on the input side where the solar panel input goes (you could put any secondary power supply in there as long as it doesn't exceed the voltage and amp limits. Think windmill or something) The Smartpass bumps up the output amps to the charging battery bank it doesn't impact the auxiliary (solar) input capacity. The max I've ever seen going to my 400ah bank is about 39 amps.

Parallel panels up the amps but not the voltage. You're right that your panels have the potential for 18 amps. But sadly, it ain't going to happen.

And yes, I think that is the bundle. Funny, there's no mention of the new piece on CTEK's web site.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[SD_Charlie]

I like the first and last option. With the first option, you could probably get away with a couple 150 panels. So far with my panels, I'm usually seeing about 75% of the their rating, and this is with the mid-day sun. I agree with Airdrifter, if you need 200 watts from the panels, add more.

The Ctek stuff looks nice, just limited as far as power handling.

The Victron BMV-712 is a nice unit, especially with the built in Bluetooth. It'll give you quite a bit of info and is pretty easy to set up. It's not going to give you any information directly related to the inverter. You'll need to get the remote unit for the magnum inverter if you want that functionality. So the Magnum ME-RC 50 probably shouldn't be considered an alternative to the Victron unit. The Magnum BMK , which is an alternative, doesn't look as feature packed as the Victron unit. So unless it has some functionality that allows it to work better with the magnum inverter, I'd stick with the Victron.

 

[markley]

No. The 20 amp limitation is on the input side where the solar panel input goes (you could put any secondary power supply in there as long as it doesn't exceed the voltage and amp limits. Think windmill or something) The Smartpass bumps up the output amps to the charging battery bank it doesn't impact the auxiliary (solar) input capacity. The max I've ever seen going to my 400ah bank is about 39 amps.

Parallel panels up the amps but not the voltage. You're right that your panels have the potential for 18 amps. But sadly, it ain't going to happen.

And yes, I think that is the bundle. Funny, there's no mention of the new piece on CTEK's web site.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Aha..It's all becoming a little more clearer (i think). So whether or not to go with the Smartpass would depend on my battery bank (which I have not bought yet) and max charging rates. I am leaning towards 2 - 6volt 220 ah lifeline batteries. I am guessing that you have the Smartpass?

Regarding the Ctek monitor, it is hard to find much info on them. But the bundle (which includes D250S, smartpass, and monitor) costs an additional $160 (as opposed to just the D250S and smartpass alone).

 

[markley]

I like the first and last option. With the first option, you could probably get away with a couple 150 panels. So far with my panels, I'm usually seeing about 75% of the their rating, and this is with the mid-day sun. I agree with Airdrifter, if you need 200 watts from the panels, add more.

The Ctek stuff looks nice, just limited as far as power handling.

The Victron BMV-712 is a nice unit, especially with the built in Bluetooth. It'll give you quite a bit of info and is pretty easy to set up. It's not going to give you any information directly related to the inverter. You'll need to get the remote unit for the magnum inverter if you want that functionality. So the Magnum ME-RC 50 probably shouldn't be considered an alternative to the Victron unit. The Magnum BMK , which is an alternative, doesn't look as feature packed as the Victron unit. So unless it has some functionality that allows it to work better with the magnum inverter, I'd stick with the Victron.

Thanks Charlie! Huh, ya know I didn't even consider 150 watt panels. Haven't seen any so didn't even have them on my radar. Looks like Renogy has 150 watt panels (8.4 amp operating current), and I really like the dimensions of these for my roof setup.

Thanks for the advice regarding the need for the remote for the Magnum inverter! It seems like a lot of folks use this inverter which is why I have it listed. It is pricey though. And I'm not sure if I need it, but mostly because I don't know what I need yet (but I'm learning). Any suggestions on a cheaper inverter option that would work for my setup/needs?

 

[mro61365]

Honestly, this is virtually exactly what I am going to set up in my van. Transit 150 130" low roof. 2x 150watt panels, 200ah trojan batteries 2x6V, CTEK charger and smartpass, etc. However, I would eventually like to up the total house storage to 300ah+ if my needs require it.

 

[Airedrifter]

Aha..It's all becoming a little more clearer (i think). So whether or not to go with the Smartpass would depend on my battery bank (which I have not bought yet) and max charging rates. I am leaning towards 2 - 6volt 220 ah lifeline batteries. I am guessing that you have the Smartpass?

Regarding the Ctek monitor, it is hard to find much info on them. But the bundle (which includes D250S, smartpass, and monitor) costs an additional $160 (as opposed to just the D250S and smartpass alone).

I do have the Smartpass and I have their 25000 (some letters in front of that) AC charger for charging while on shore power. I have their little $49 battery monitor too. Meh...

AS to the $160 cost, the Xantrex was $270. I didn't think I needed one and that they were too expensive. Now, I'm glad I have it. So, $160, if it works like I think, would be a good buy and you'd have all support in one place.

One other thought. That's a nice inverter you're looking at. There is a new wave of inverters coming out. Most are pure sine and relatively cheap. I got one and it's hummed for 8 months like it's not there. Also, lastly, you can get a Xantrex switch that about $65 that provides 120vAC to be distributed as you wish. (up to 15 amp) It looks for shore power first and distributes that. If no shore power and there is power coming from the inverter, it distributes that. It was a nice add. One more last, it is easy to set up a normally open large amp switch between your banks. Close it and you can jump your van from the house batteries. It's got me out of a pinch. No one ever knew I had screwed up and let the van batteries get low.

Good luck and have fun. It is supposed to be fun.

 

[SD_Charlie]

Any suggestions on a cheaper inverter option that would work for my setup/needs?

Magnum gets pretty good reviews. I went a different route, but my needs were different. If you're only going to be charging phones and a tablet with it, you might consider not getting an inverter and just using some high amp USB outlets to charge your devices. I'm using mine for a microwave oven, coffee maker and things like that. Part of my design consideration was also to use it as a backup incase I lose power at home I can run my fridge and a few other things with it. I have also been using mine to run the power tools that I'm using for my build out. It has the capability, but it came at a pretty steep price.

The 120vac side of my electrical build required a fair amount of circuit protection. Proper grounding is key, as well as correct wiring and understanding how the ground system works when on shore power vs inverter power. This can add a bit of complexity to a build if done correctly, but it's very important. If you're going to go with an inverter that has an automatic transfer switch (I believe the one you are looking at does), it should also be set up to automatically tie the neutral to the chassis ground (ground relay) or at least provide a relay output so this can be done after the fact. I believe this has been brought up on this forum a few times, but not nearly enough. Most people focus on learning to wire up the systems so they operate, but neglect the really important part, safety.

 

[markley]

I do have the Smartpass and I have their 25000 (some letters in front of that) AC charger for charging while on shore power. I have their little $49 battery monitor too. Meh...

AS to the $160 cost, the Xantrex was $270. I didn't think I needed one and that they were too expensive. Now, I'm glad I have it. So, $160, if it works like I think, would be a good buy and you'd have all support in one place.

One other thought. That's a nice inverter you're looking at. There is a new wave of inverters coming out. Most are pure sine and relatively cheap. I got one and it's hummed for 8 months like it's not there. Also, lastly, you can get a Xantrex switch that about $65 that provides 120vAC to be distributed as you wish. (up to 15 amp) It looks for shore power first and distributes that. If no shore power and there is power coming from the inverter, it distributes that. It was a nice add. One more last, it is easy to set up a normally open large amp switch between your banks. Close it and you can jump your van from the house batteries. It's got me out of a pinch. No one ever knew I had screwed up and let the van batteries get low.

Good luck and have fun. It is supposed to be fun.

Thanks again for your input and suggestions! I will have to look into the new inverters you are talking about. Any idea when they are coming out?

And yes, it is fun getting this van setup how we want it...may even be a little sad once it is done

 

[markley]

Magnum gets pretty good reviews. I went a different route, but my needs were different. If you're only going to be charging phones and a tablet with it, you might consider not getting an inverter and just using some high amp USB outlets to charge your devices.

Thanks! Yeah, now you have me thinking what all we would want AC outlets for...and at this time I am not sure. However, the "what if" scenario is making me wonder if I should just include while I am building. Would hate to have to add later, and I'm sure there is (or will be) something that we will need if for.

Yes, grounding....definitely something that I have not yet fully grasped. I need to dig around and see what I can find while I sketch up our electrical diagram.

 

[Airedrifter]

They are out. I ended up with this one.

https://www.amazon.com/KISAE-Technology-SW1220-2000W-Inverter/dp/B008NOEWG8

Funny thing, I looked for the link to DonRowe.com as I read his site a whole lot. (I kind of feel bad I didn't order from him as I've been using his info for the last three years.)

And the front page this week has a KISAE Special going on.

Here's his link. A lot of good info that seems trustworthy.

https://www.donrowe.com/

 

[markley]

They are out. I ended up with this one.

https://www.amazon.com/KISAE-Technology-SW1220-2000W-Inverter/dp/B008NOEWG8

Funny thing, I looked for the link to DonRowe.com as I read his site a whole lot. (I kind of feel bad I didn't order from him as I've been using his info for the last three years.)

And the front page this week has a KISAE Special going on.

Here's his link. A lot of good info that seems trustworthy.

https://www.donrowe.com/

Nice!! Thanks much!! I will look into the KISAE you mentioned and will likely order through his website. $299 plus free shipping sounds a lot better than $800+. So would I need to buy another monitor the inverter? In other words, would I need another in addition to the Ctek (if i go that route), or Victron, or Xantrex? I see it does have a remote, but it does not monitor the inverter like the Magnum RC50.

 

[Airedrifter]

There is no monitor on those and quite frankly, there is no "monitoring" on CTEK. One of the reasons I'm interested in some solid info on the new monitor thingy.

I told CTEK that their bigest marketing weakness is feedback to the user. If CTEK does what it says it does, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, there would be a treasuretrove of techy info to log, graph, have remote status lights, droid apps, ... Us geeks like that stuff. On the other hand, CTEK works.

Back to your question about monitoring the inverter. I have a remote start and stop switch (one I scarffed from another project) and I have a volt meter showing the inverter output. (simple $7 amazon gaget) On the inverter face there are fault indicators and voltage readouts and what not, but as of yet, I don't think there is a way to extract those for remote viewing. It would be nice but, it works.

 

[markley]

Gotcha..So it sounds like a "monitor" for the inverter is not needed or necessary. With that said, it looks like the new CTEK monitor should be sufficient to monitor the SOC of the system. Is that all that is really needed? Just want to be sure I can properly monitor the system.

I have also read to make sure the monitor is shunt based. While I am not sure why, I am going to rely on the advice on those with the electrical knowledge. There is not much info I can find on the new CTEK monitor (shunt based?) which is making me lean toward the Victron BMV-712.

 

[Airedrifter]

Here is another web page offering to sell the package. In the photos you'll see an obvious shunt.

That's the only way these things really work. I think I'm in the 97% range of this being a shunt based system.

http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/shop-by-manufacturer/ctek-battery-chargers/ctek-battery-chargers/ctek-40-155-br-100a-bundle-d250s-smartpass-and-monitor.html

 

[markley]

Here is another web page offering to sell the package. In the photos you'll see an obvious shunt.

That's the only way these things really work. I think I'm in the 97% range of this being a shunt based system.

http://www.hrpworld.com/store/defau...-100a-bundle-d250s-smartpass-and-monitor.html

Thanks! That looks promising..that is the only page i have seen that includes more pictures other than the three stock photos. I guess I need to now decide if I need the capability to connect to smartphone (like victron).

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[tthrsn]

... I guess I need to now decide if I need the capability to connect to smartphone (like victron) ...

Note that the CTEK shunt has 100A stamped on it. I assume that it monitors the house battery current. Will you ever be drawing more than 100A DC, say when running a microwave connected to the inverter?

 

[markley]

Note that the CTEK shunt has 100A stamped on it. I assume that it monitors the house battery current. Will you ever be drawing more than 100A DC, say when running a microwave connected to the inverter?

No, well at least I am 99.9% sure that we will not be running a microwave. Thanks for pointing that out though! So it looks like the Victron is a 500A shunt. I guess I need to consider and look at what I may potentially be running. I guess that a small water pump would be the biggest draw (max ~10 amps; does that sound right)? So with that said, would the Victron work with the CTEK system? For an extra $40, I could just get the D250S, Smartpass, and Victron. Then I would have the capability to run something with more than 100A draw as well as the fancy shmancy bluetooth app.