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Here's a quote to start with: "When propane is burned, it releases combustion byproducts and one of those byproducts is a surprisingly large quantity of water vapor! "

http://www.marxrv.com/skp/survive.htm
Of course it does.
But, if the combustion products are vented outside, and the heater uses outside air to combust, AS THEY MUST BE in any sane heat exchange system (AKA practically every non-catalytic hydrocarbon based heating system available for RV use), how does that affect moisture inside the van:s:s
 

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Of course it does.
But, if the combustion products are vented outside, and the heater uses outside air to combust, AS THEY MUST BE in any sane heat exchange system (AKA practically every non-catalytic hydrocarbon based heating system available for RV use), how does that affect humidity inside the van:s:s
Negligible if vented. Wouldn't worry about it.
 

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Yes. Electrowarmth brand. 12voltsplus.com $75.00 I use the 36" x 60". It draws 6.2 amps when on. The control has 7 positions with 7 being on constant. The other settings turn it on part of the time and off part of the time. So far I have never run it over the 2 setting and most of the time on the 1 setting.
Yes,...and as you mentioned,...it's quiet.
 

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Negligible if vented. Wouldn't worry about it.
Cool.
I only brought it up as a question to your comment back in post 200578
that you "want to go all-electric TO REDUCE CONDENSATION"

The only utility that I could think of where electric might reduce condensation is the cook stove. Just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed something.

I'd have guessed that a properly vented house heater would actually reduce condensation vs. a local heat source like a sleeping bag and electric blanket, mainly because more warm air can hold more water from things like breathing before condensing it out.

Stan
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Van insulation is more complicated than I thought-

main issue insulating a van is water control -

Moisture condenses on Cold Surface -

maybe -

Insulate van Completely except -

make One window into The Colder Surface -

Make that window into water condenser device -
fan blows air onto one window -->
more air/ more water -

put water collection on bottom of window -

maybe use CoolMax type cloth to wick
water from bottom of window into a container-

Could that work as a General Concept in a van ???

--------
Controlled Drafty Insulation design looking better --
-
-
 

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Good discussion here, Tks to all. On the related subject of venting, I plan on trying a small 3-4" solar battery vent as used widely on boats (Nicro or Sunforce).

They can run constantly using internal solar charged NiMH with NO house battery implications/wiring, and keep venting moist air all night. Also, the small 3" penetration on the van roof will be easier on my nerves.

Plan to locate it to also draw from behind the fridge to double in daytime compressor coil cooling through a floor vent hole as per previous posts by orton, I believe.
 

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I was looking at those marine 3" vents also- problem is they seem to move a very small amount of air, any amount helps though.
The 3" are rated around 700 cubic feet per hour- that means if my calculations are correct- my extended length high roof contains near 700 cubic feet total- then I'm looking at an hour to exchange air once.
The 4" are rated to 1000 CFH so better but still...
Contrast that to the popular Fantastic fan moving 920 CFM or 55,200 CFH!


Would be interesting to see how a couple of the 1000's would do with a floor "pusher" fan helping.

Note- the discussion about LP combustion byproducts -
EVERY RV approved LP forced air heater pulls all combustion air from outside and exhausts ALL combustion byproducts back outside.
 

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I was looking at those marine 3" vents also- problem is they seem to move a very small amount of air, any amount helps though.
The 3" are rated around 700 cubic feet per hour- that means if my calculations are correct- my extended length high roof contains near 700 cubic feet total- then I'm looking at an hour to exchange air once.
The 4" are rated to 1000 CFH so better but still...
Contrast that to the popular Fantastic fan moving 920 CFM or 55,200 CFH!

That does seem low, but then on a cold night might be about right? I will have to consider the idea carefully, might not be worth the effort if it can't move enough air.
 

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I was thinking the same about not needing much on a cold night, but then I figure I would probably want more on a warm night where I can't run AC or a generator.
Too bad they cost so much- or I'd pop one in where a 14" vent would go- that way if it didn't work out then at least there wasn't an unwanted hole left.
 

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I installed the Warmfloor 24V product under the factory wood floor in my Promaster. I did two layers of Low-E then Warmfloor in the "hallway" and "living room". I'm using a voltage step converter to get 24V. I tested it with my power supply at 12V, 24V and 31V(which was the max my power supply would go). At 12V you cannot even tell it's on. At 24V it's nice. At 31V it really warms up the space.
 

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Moisture condenses on Cold Surface - maybe - Insulate van Completely except - make One window into The Colder Surface - Make that window into water condenser device
For winter usage my plan is to have the edges of the door frames serve this purpose. These are hard to insulate and, if you don't have any windows, are probably be the coldest interior surface after insulating. Also the water/frost condensation would have a natural place to exit the van, out the door sills, with a bit of scraping, sweeping or mopping.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Using the lower part of a door could work great as a condenser area -
put fan inside of the door and removing the water could be
as simple as letting the water leak out the weep hole as you say-
drips to ground like normal AC -

It is kind of what the VW Vanagon guys are doing -
so it should work-

I think adding Air Flow could make it work better -

Making a purpose designed Cold Spot - Could it work ???

LP -
I tried heating machine shop with catalytic propane heaters -
had water dripping off machines in 2 hours - oops -
never heated a small area like a van using LP -

Heating a whole van off batteries is spendy -
would be Sweet -

watched a van video from Europe that had engine water
plumbed to a small radiator mounted in back -
looked nice - well made - heat -
 

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OK, my apologies, but I seem to recall someone here managed to figure out how to get the cargo van headliner off and I can't seem to find the thread. Has anyone here removed that yet? I finally going to start insulating my van after having a giant roll of Thinsulate sitting in my garage all summer and I really want to get up under that headliner, but other than a few obvious screws, I can't see how it's attached.
Thanks,
JP
 

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Van heat

Last van was insulated with closed cell foam ,then plastic moisture barrier and finished with underlayment ,with 3 coats of varnish ,I used rivets to hold underlay to walls , with buddy heater ,water was dripping off rivets from ceiling ,and water on every rivet on walls....getting up in the middle of the night with only heated sleeping bag is not an option anymore for me! The the aqua hot seems like the way to go . Generators cant be run after 11pm where we go ,but ..that would be the easiest way out ..
 

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OK, my apologies, but I seem to recall someone here managed to figure out how to get the cargo van headliner off and I can't seem to find the thread. Has anyone here removed that yet? I finally going to start insulating my van after having a giant roll of Thinsulate sitting in my garage all summer and I really want to get up under that headliner, but other than a few obvious screws, I can't see how it's attached.
Thanks,
JP
I think I remember someone getting that short headliner off, too. But, you can get quite a bit of Thinsulate in there without removing the headliner. In my medium roof, I measured that I would need about 30 inches of insulation from front to back. And, whatever width, I can't recall. I was able to stuff and pull two pieces of Thinsulate into that space. The first was 18 inches deep. I fished heavy twine from one side of the center attachments to the other. Then I attached that string to the rear corner of the Thinsulate that would fit to the opposite side. Then I carefully stuffed that insulation into the unobstructed space, which I think was what may be 12 inches wide? While stuffing, I pulled the string, occasionally to start moving the material laterally. It worked in there quite nicely, at which point I cut the string and then started on the second piece, which was 12 inches deep... following the same procedure.

This may look impossible at first but it works. You do have to be careful not to put too much force, during the stuffing, which could pull the headliner away and possibly do damage.

Oh, I also used a yardstick and a piece of coat hanger with 90 degree bend near end, to work the pieces into position.
 

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Thanks a Eddie. I may end up going that route for now and pull it down later if someone figures out how to get it off. I'd like to put a few more CLD tiles up there as well.
JP
 

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