[BabyBuffy]

There's been much discussion about insulating a van seemingly mostly focused on thermal issues.

If insulating to have the van be as quiet as possible with the thermal benefits only secondary, what would be the best way to do it?

 

[hawkeng]

Dynamat or some other equivalent is the best method for sound deadening. An additional layer of "baffle" will further increase the deadening effects.

I use this for sound deadening material:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URUIKAK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_20?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AXJ5VNOZL83GP

This seems to be the lowest cost quality material. The key to this is cover every square inch you can....the more you cover the quieter the vehicle will be.

 

[Hein]

Thinsulate(TM) will do an excellent job of making your van very quiet. There is no need for any other products like Dynamat, Fatmat, etc.

In addition to its outstanding acoustic performance, Thinsulate(TM) also provides an R5.2 thermal insulation.

It's a safe, lightweight, easy to install product that is becoming the standard for van insulation. Lots of DIY van builders out there enjoying their Thinsulate(TM) with more and more professional up-fitters using it as well.

Please call or PM me for a sample.

All the best,
Hein
Impact, Inc.
54l 49O 5O98

 

[DrJean]

Prodex is also a product where you don't need anything else as it provides radiant barrier, moisture barrier, and noise reduction (by as much as 19db?) It also doesn't require countless cans of 3M 80-90 etc... no spray adhesive.

Reviews tout it's great thermal benefits warm/cool. No one can give R factors because most items require 1" air space to truly compute those, right?

This is what I will be using...maybe next week??? If I get my van and the prodex this week, that is...

 

[klp]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh....

I am a firm believer that there is no one product that does it all. If you believe your 'all season' tires provide the best grip in summer and winter read no further.

Hein makes a lot of claims about Thinsulate, I have no idea if they are true or not.

My research led me to the following. Your results may vary. You have vibration in your vehicle. Peel and stick tiles like dynamat lower the frequency of the vibration and thus make it quieter. Full coverage is not necessary, 75% or so is plenty for this product.

Closed cell foam decouples the sound from the interior of your rig. Mass loaded vinyl blocks sounds from getting through. The product I used combines these two materials - I used it on the floor to great effect. Here you need full coverage for it to work best. Walls, etc would be more difficult as it does not conform to shapes well.

All of these products are heavy, the MLV I used is 1 lb per sq ft. Peel and stick tiles are about the same.

You also have to address noise that gets in - think soft headliner/ side panels, etc. Do all these and your rig will be as quiet as a Bentley. Or not. Mine is pretty quiet right now and I am not done. I plan to use Heins product on the ceiling and walls of my van.

If you want to go full crazy think about your firewall and hood outside the cabin.

Class dismissed lol.

 

[rene12341]

The reviews on Amazon for Prodex say it is junk and the company lies. There are a few good reviews but they are so similar my paranoid self tells me they are false reviews planted by the seller.

https://www.amazon.com/Prodex-Total-Inch-Insulation-700/product-reviews/B000NNGA3A

I am on the fence as to how I will insulate my van. Right now I am thinking K-flex on the large easy to reach areas. Thinsulate above the headliner.

As far as all the doors I may get in there and remove what I need to for access and put K-flex.

The big question is what to do inside all the small beams and blind spaces.

Also, the steel rib structure is a thermal path that needs to be addressed.

 

[klp]

The big question is what to do inside all the small beams and blind spaces.

Also, the steel rib structure is a thermal path that needs to be addressed.

I plan to use Thinsulate in these spots, as it is a steel structure there is going to be some amount of steel on steel contact, not much that can be done short of building some sort of inner shell.

 

[Hein]

I am a firm believer that there is no one product that does it all. If you believe your 'all season' tires provide the best grip in summer and winter read no further.

Hein makes a lot of claims about Thinsulate, I have no idea if they are true or not.

My research led me to the following. Your results may vary. You have vibration in your vehicle. Peel and stick tiles like dynamat lower the frequency of the vibration and thus make it quieter. Full coverage is not necessary, 75% or so is plenty for this product.

Closed cell foam decouples the sound from the interior of your rig. Mass loaded vinyl blocks sounds from getting through. The product I used combines these two materials - I used it on the floor to great effect. Here you need full coverage for it to work best. Walls, etc would be more difficult as it does not conform to shapes well.

All of these products are heavy, the MLV I used is 1 lb per sq ft. Peel and stick tiles are about the same.

You also have to address noise that gets in - think soft headliner/ side panels, etc. Do all these and your rig will be as quiet as a Bentley. Or not. Mine is pretty quiet right now and I am not done. I plan to use Heins product on the ceiling and walls of my van.

If you want to go full crazy think about your firewall and hood outside the cabin.

Class dismissed lol.

You describe the traditional multi-layered car audio methods very well. The strategy has its roots in automobiles with extreme high end audio systems with huge amps and a dozen or more speakers.

Thinsulate(TM) is a much better solution for vans where we are talking about a lot of square feet. Applying multiple layers of traditional noise abatement products adds unnecessary weight, cost and effort without adding any significant thermal R-value.

Your van would be at least equally as quiet and comfortable with a single layer of Thinsulate(TM) SM600L.

Prodex is also a product where you don't need anything else as it provides radiant barrier, moisture barrier, and noise reduction (by as much as 19db?)

We did sell Prodex for a time but it wasn't rated for use in vehicles. Neither is Reflectix. Low-E is a similar domestically produced product that does. (It is also being sold as EZ-cool)

None of them will do what you are expecting. Prodex is known in the industry for making lofty claims.

If not already the case, Thinsulate(TM) will be the standard for the van up-fit industry.

 

[klp]

Applying multiple layers of traditional noise abatement products adds unnecessary weight, cost and effort without adding any significant thermal R-value.

Agreed, but the OP was asking purely about deadening sound. Without any definitive testing who knows which works better. Certainly more weight and install work for what I have done. I am confident Thinsulate works as advertised. The main reason I decided not to use it exclusively was due to it's thickness and trying to keep my floor as low as possible.

 

[Hein]

Agreed, but the OP was asking purely about deadening sound. Without any definitive testing who knows which works better. Certainly more weight and install work for what I have done. I am confident Thinsulate works as advertised. The main reason I decided not to use it exclusively was due to it's thickness and trying to keep my floor as low as possible.

Thank you for the clarification. We don't use Thinsulate(TM) under the floor. We recommend minicell closed cell polyethylene foam. A mass loaded vinyl would be somewhat better but the minicell has proven to be sufficient. Covering the fender tubs & filling the lower walls with Thinsulate kills a lot of road noise in vans. We tell customers that an area rug or carpet is easy to install and does a great job reducing noise and increasing comfort.

 

[hawkeng]

You describe the traditional multi-layered car audio methods very well. The strategy has its roots in automobiles with extreme high end audio systems with huge amps and a dozen or more speakers.

Thinsulate(TM) is a much better solution for vans where we are talking about a lot of square feet. Applying multiple layers of traditional noise abatement products adds unnecessary weight, cost and effort without adding any significant thermal R-value.

Your van would be at least equally as quiet and comfortable with a single layer of Thinsulate(TM) SM600L.



We did sell Prodex for a time but it wasn't rated for use in vehicles. Neither is Reflectix. Low-E is a similar domestically produced product that does. (It is also being sold as EZ-cool)

None of them will do what you are expecting. Prodex is known in the industry for making lofty claims.

If not already the case, Thinsulate(TM) will be the standard for the van up-fit industry.

Dynamat and sound deading for "extreme high end" audio systems in not true. Look at just about any automobile today and you will the multi-layer approach used in all of them......the higher the quality of the car, you will find more of the sound deading material.

we have had this discussion before:

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/interior/10682-sound-deadening.html

I will also suggest looking at this site to get more perspective.

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

 

[Hein]

I will also suggest looking at this site to get more perspective.
https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

I have looked at their site where they promote and sell the outdated multi-layered approach and related products. They don't mention or compare their products to Thinsulate(TM) which is being used by a lot of vehicle and van conversion OEM's these days. (GM, Honda, Tesla, Advanced RV, OSV, etc.)

I'm sure your van is quiet. It's just that you spent a lot of time, money and effort with heavy products to accomplish that goal.

Our experience is that Thinsulate(TM) is a better overall solution for vans.

 

[joefromga]

Is there some reason you're putting TM after thinsulate every time you type it but not after any other brand name you type?

It's really douchey and deligitimizes everything you say as if you're trolling.

 

[hawkeng]

I have looked at their site where they promote and sell the outdated multi-layered approach and related products. They don't mention or compare their products to Thinsulate(TM) which is being used by a lot of vehicle and van conversion OEM's these days. (GM, Honda, Tesla, Advanced RV, OSV, etc.)

I'm sure your van is quiet. It's just that you spent a lot of time, money and effort with heavy products to accomplish that goal.

Our experience is that Thinsulate(TM) is a better overall solution for vans.

Sorry, but If I am pulling off every panel in the vehicle to reduce noise I will choose a product that provide better than up to -3db noise reduction. There is a ton of work that goes into proper sound deadening. There is over 10 db loss with Dynamate (or similar product) alone.

 

[klp]

Dynamat and sound deading for "extreme high end" audio systems in not true. Look at just about any automobile today and you will the multi-layer approach used in all of them......the higher the quality of the car, you will find more of the sound deading material.

+ 1.

I bought my material from a yacht building company that sells their boats for 1 million/foot. I am certain if there was a better system available they would be using it.

Here's my cliff note version of the above. If you want to install quickly and are concerned about weight, Thinsulate (TM) lol is the way to go. If you want ultimate quiet there are better methods.

 

[orton]

It is difficult for Hein to not promote Thinsulate. I am positive he does believe it is a good solution for a DIY van. He is not a troll IMO. There may be other heavier, more costly and higher installation time methods that do a better job.

Personally I was not concerned about sound reduction. I thought empty cargo van was quiet enough at the time of purchase. It also helps that I carry around my own noise constantly. I have Tinnitus so vehicle sound generation is always masked. Lucky me.

I did not purchase Thinsulate from Hein and used several different methods depending on the location.

Floor: Added 1/2" closed cell foam in the low areas of the corrugated floor. Covered that with 1/8" 1 lb. mass loaded vinyl. Then put 1/2" plywood on top of the vinyl. A 80/20 framework was built to bolt to the plywood. In between the 80/20 there is a 1" layer of polyiso, a 1/16" layer of fiberglass and then the 3/8" gym mat rubber floor.

http://www.ortontransit.info/testfloor.php

The deep cavities above and below the window indents have two layers of 1" closed cell foam glued to the van steel. The closed cell foam is covered with Reflectix. Then an air gap to the wall covering which is 1/4" plywood with 1/8" closed cell glued to the back of the plywood.

The window indents had 1/8" sound deadening material applied around the existing Ford patches to level out the surface. On the deep areas 1 1/2" of polyiso was glued to the van steel. In the wall rib areas 1" polyiso was glued to the window ribs. All the gaps and cracks were filled with spray foam. Indents were then covered with indoor/outdoor carpet. The thin insulation provides a across the van bed length of 72 1/2" to 74" depending on the location. (van tapers toward the back)

The wall behind the drivers seat is the same as the back two window indents except it has more insulation and is covered with Reflectix. This wall is behind cabinets.

The ceiling is again a combination of 1" and 1 1/2" rigid polyiso covered with Reflectix with an air gap down to the level 8mm Macrolux twin wall polycarbonate panels. A layer of white Thinsulate is glued to the back of the ceiling panels to make them opaque. Ribs and cracks filled with spray foam. The van "forehead" has layers of closed cell foam as does the area above the cab headliner.

Again I do not see a need to attack Hein. He is unfortunately in a position where he is trying to help but at the same time sells the stuff. Sometimes hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I certainly would not call Thinsulate BS. I will also use Thinsulate between by two layers of cotton cloth to make my insulated "tent" around the sleeping platform. Thinsulate was not bought from Hein.

 

[Michael Ophus]

i used the poor mans dynamat, i cant say it works as good as dynamat because there are no specs for sound deadening for this product, i can not remember if i found out about this stuff in this forum, or in another forum? it seams to work great! http://www.homedepot.com/p/USEAL-US...l-Self-Adhesive-Repair-Tape-8872AF6/202086180

 

[GaryBIS]

Hi,
I've had the same sort of frustration over noise treatments -- lots of claims, but very little measured data to support the claims.

On my van, I used a Dynamat like product in just a few places -- less than 10% of the area.
https://www.amazon.com/Noico-deaden...012967&sr=8-6&keywords=dynamat+sound+deadener

I then used polyurethan spray foam after this over the full surface of the walls and ceilings, and rigid polyiso and plywood on the floor.
I measured the noise level of the van at 60 mph and in my Honda Pilot SUV at same speed over same highway. The Pilot was 3 db quieter than the van -- not really so bad -- barely perceptable difference for good ears.
Not so bad, but if you want a really quiet van, you would want to try to do more.

I wrote up the noise test, and suggested that others that install noise treatment could do the same noise test before and after noise treatment and we could build up a little data base on what treatments work and how well. The test is very simple and only takes a few minutes, but does involve buying a $20 noise meter. Its all described here:
http://www.buildagreenrv.com/our-co...camper-van-conversion-measuring-noise-levels/
It would be nice to have some real noise numbers to compare.

Gary

 

[BabyBuffy]

* This is a reply to Orton, a quote w B too long.

The resistance to one person persistently advocating one solution, while never failing to denigrate any others suggested, is not something to apologize for.

If that's what it takes to prompt you to post your excellent summary hail to the gladiators.

Your words support that if you want the best, Thinsulate helps - but it doesn't take you all the way.

 

[orton]

* This is a reply to Orton, a quote w B too long.

The resistance to one person persistently advocating one solution, while never failing to denigrate any others suggested, is not something to apologize for.

If that's what it takes to prompt you to post your excellent summary hail to the gladiators.

Your words support that if you want the best, Thinsulate helps - but it doesn't take you all the way.

Not sure if what I did is better or worse than Thinsulate. It does seem to work but without a direct comparison it is all hearsay. Sure would like to put the same size van next to each other in cold weather and measure one against the other. I could not use Thinsulate in the rear window indents because of my bed configuration and the need for a thin solid surface at the head and toes. The closed cell foam in the deep cavities was easy to do because you can fold the pieces. I suspect that the 2" of closed cell foam is also better than Thinsulate for noise and insulation but do not know that as a fact. My Sprinter had a bunch of small pieces of polyiso in the deep cavities that were difficult to install so I looked for a better way. I hate the spray foam but it is a requirement to glue all the pieces of polyiso together.