[Tran 150 2016]

Hey everyone. I have an idea for flushing the heat in summer and possibly capturing a bit in the couple cold mos here (Jan&Feb). Will you critique it? If I do it I'll be sure to provide feedback.
I understand heat will accrue regardless but having slept in 95° for several nights one summer without ac I'd like to funnel some up and out between the skin and wall instead of insulation absorbing then releasing through the night.
If I attach radiant barrier to both the skin and the inner wall there will be an airgap Between them. The hot air inside could rise through the ribs into the ceiling gap and through side vent holes in the underside fan frame. Heat heads out with fan assist And floor vents providing circulation.
In the winter I could close the side fan vents and direct heat insidelby opening lower down vents (slightly higher and away from fresh air lower vents). Closing all vents at night would slow inside air from exchange with colder outside air.
Any thoughts? The journey of the build is as important as the roadtrips. So,, I'll take it in stride if I come out the wiser and make improvements along the way.

Floor is lightly insulated with insulating roof paint. I'll be adding ceramic beads with inert gas into the insulating paint for final coats on top of van roof. Front window facing as needed from the sun. Shade, breeze, ventilation all to be used.
Thanks ahead for consultation and/or brainstorming and support.

 

[Vanpackr]

These van builds are as much a creative outlet than anything. It's an opportunity to form a vision, to solve a problem, and express one's self at the same time. Every solution has pros and cons. This idea will have complexity and cost space yet the benefits are unknown. I would suggest prototyping to better understand what the benefits might be and what complexities you might run into and to take measurements to quantify the benefits. A few days, some cardboard and reflectix, etc. and you will come out with a better idea if you are on the track you want to be.

 

[kenryan]

A lot of the heat in your van comes in through the windows -- far more than most realize. Your plan (as I understand it) would do nothing to address heat gain through windows.

 

[Boondox]

Thanks for the replies and possibly the sanity check. I do carry a decent come-along (made in USA, can't remember rating) and 50' of low stretch rescue rope. I'll check the rating when I get home, I'm part way through a 48 hour shift. Maybe doubling down on that type of gear is a better option. How well do the chain hoists do on their sides and odd angles? I have only ever used one as an engine hoist and that was aa chain fall, not a hoist with a lever. Which tolerates sand, dust, mud, etc. the best?

One thing that interested me about a winch, aside from the cool factor, is the longer pull length. I got stuck in the Borrego Badlands this fall in a sand pit and it took 3 almost 100' pulls from a kind person with a winch to get us out. Mind you, that is a rare circumstance and we don't generally do things that get us that stuck. It was one of those things: I knew I was in trouble and that if I let off the gas I would be stuck. I was hoping the road would improve, in denial, regretting my judgment, trying to figure out what to do and all the while kept on going until I was 100 yards in. Operator error for sure, should have let off immediately and would have had much less distance back to something hard.

On a related not, I see that the come-along linked has a synthetic line option. Anyone here ever used some? I never have.

 

[Tran 150 2016]

A lot of the heat in your van comes in through the windows -- far more than most realize. Your plan (as I understand it) would do nothing to address heat gain through windows.

Thank-you Kenyan. You are over-the-top correct and this will be another project mostly solved though. I have standard back door windows in the cargo area.
In my prius adventure toy my window covers were/are white posterior painted black on 1 side for night. I stored them beneath the mattress in a large envelope.
Still, I remember 'us kids' expected to pile into our smaller cargo van and burning on the inner skin. I'll sew black and white polyester together, probably with a light stiffener (ideas? Sheet or frame of plastic?), leaving a large enough opening for thinsulate when needed. Haven't figured out storage yet.
Thanks again.

 

[durundal]

How well do the chain hoists do on their sides and odd angles? I have only ever used one as an engine hoist and that was aa chain fall, not a hoist with a lever. Which tolerates sand, dust, mud, etc. the best?

...

On a related not, I see that the come-along linked has a synthetic line option. Anyone here ever used some? I never have.

I've used a chain hoist on its side and they do work but the chain you pull to drive it gets caught up easily so you have to hold both sides to keep it around the sprocket, and it's very slow going as you can't build up some momentum like in vertical lifts. It has gears and grease in the head and I don't think it would like being in the dirt or having the chain in the dirt at all.

I haven't used synthetic line on a comealong but I have used it on boats (Dyneema aka Amsteel aka Spectra), and it's the bees knees in a lot of ways. Lightweight, soft so it can't scratch stuff, zero stretch, super high load ratings, holds up well to UV for synthetics, loops are easily spliced. You could run it through a block on anchor side and double your pull force at the expense of length, or even a whole block and tackle setup if you really needed brute force for short distances. It's slippery so it won't stick to wrap-around type winches well and you have to use a few funkier knots to tie it to itself but other than that it's good stuff.

 

[Boondox]

My apologies for the off thread post! What a dummy. Durundal, thanks for the reply, here is the thread I meant to post it in.https://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/threads/receiver-mounted-winch.83403/#post-1084188

Carry on...

 

[Tran 150 2016]

A lot of the heat in your van comes in through the windows -- far more than most realize. Your plan (as I understand it) would do nothing to address heat gain through windows.

These van builds are as much a creative outlet than anything. It's an opportunity to form a vision, to solve a problem, and express one's self at the same time. Every solution has pros and cons. This idea will have complexity and cost space yet the benefits are unknown. I would suggest prototyping to better understand what the benefits might be and what complexities you might run into and to take measurements to quantify the benefits. A few days, some cardboard and reflectix, etc. and you will come out with a better idea if you are on the track you want to be.

Yeppers, it's my early retirement project to challenge myself and remain relevant as my grands outgrow their childhoods
I've started a sketchup model but as one of my goals is to get things out of my head, a physical mock-up (maybe G scaled for friends train)is in order.

 

[MsNomer]

One of the easiest best things you can do when sitting in the sun is put Tyvek on the OUTSIDE of your windows and windshield. Amazon sells plain white Tyvek w/o logos to kite builders. I made a cover for the windshield and front windows. For side and rear, I attached with magnets.

I ran some tests while sitting in Panamint Valley (next door to Death Valley) a few years ago. Ambient was 104°. My HF thermometer (gun with laser) measured 104° on covered glass, 135° uncovered. With the Tyvek, reasonable insulation elsewhere and white van, I was able to maintain ambient in the van, which wasn’t bad with near-zero RH.

The Tyvek gives a pleasant effect:


Front cover:


The window I tested:

 

[njvagabond]

One of the easiest best things you can do when sitting in the sun is put Tyvek on the OUTSIDE of your windows and windshield. Amazon sells plain white Tyvek w/o logos to kite builders. I made a cover for the windshield and front windows. For side and rear, I attached with magnets.

I ran some tests while sitting in Panamint Valley (next door to Death Valley) a few years ago. Ambient was 104°. My HF thermometer (gun with laser) measured 104° on covered glass, 135° uncovered. With the Tyvek, reasonable insulation elsewhere and white van, I was able to maintain ambient in the van, which wasn’t bad with near-zero RH.

The Tyvek gives a pleasant effect:


Front cover:


The window I tested:

Great idea. Cheap, light, compact and durable. Still lets some light through. Looks like snow. That's gotta help!
How do you keep it in place?

 

[MsNomer]

Magnets sewn in.

Top and bottom at B-Pellar
Top outside edges of windshield
"Points" on hood

Velcro under outside mirror

To make this, I laid the fabric over the center of the van and cut along the A-pillar, then it was more manageable to cut the sides. Use a long loose stitch to sew.

 

[Van Gogh]

Thus my wallet busting dive into a 48V 20kWh LFP bank + split phase 120/240 inverter to feed a 42 seer minisplit. I'm insulating too of course but when it's midsummer in the desert southwest everything gets heat soaked to the point that circulating air is like adding a fan inside a small oven located inside a burning house on the fifth ring of Hades.

Cheers.

 

[Tran 150 2016]

These van builds are as much a creative outlet than anything. It's an opportunity to form a vision, to solve a problem, and express one's self at the same time. Every solution has pros and cons. This idea will have complexity and cost space yet the benefits are unknown. I would suggest prototyping to better understand what the benefits might be and what complexities you might run into and to take measurements to quantify the benefits. A few days, some cardboard and reflectix, etc. and you will come out with a better idea if you are on the track you want to be.

Thanks. Question. What complexity do you see beyond closing vents? And as the airspace would normally be taken up with insulation I don't see walls pertruding into living space but am I missing something? I really am looking for things I may not have considered so Thank you for a second look Vanpackr.

One of the easiest best things you can do when sitting in the sun is put Tyvek on the OUTSIDE of your windows and windshield. Amazon sells plain white Tyvek w/o logos to kite builders. I made a cover for the windshield and front windows. For side and rear, I attached with magnets.

I ran some tests while sitting in Panamint Valley (next door to Death Valley) a few years ago. Ambient was 104°. My HF thermometer (gun with laser) measured 104° on covered glass, 135° uncovered. With the Tyvek, reasonable insulation elsewhere and white van, I was able to maintain ambient in the van, which wasn’t bad with near-zero RH.

The Tyvek gives a pleasant effect:


Front cover:


The window I tested:

Oh! oh! oh!
So excited. I have a partial roll of Tyvek hidden away. I hadn't worked out why until you and your picture. Strong Magnets, possibly strip magnets to keep wind from turning it into a kite. Easier to store and replace if necessary too.
Thank you MsNomer

 

[Vanpackr]

Question. What complexity do you see beyond closing vents? And as the airspace would normally be taken up with insulation I don't see walls pertruding into living space but am I missing something? I really am looking for things I may not have considered so Thank you for a second look Vanpackr.

I don't know that I completely understand your vision but to me it sounds sort of like building a contiguous inner wall within the existing walls of the van sort of like a thermos bottle. In my build I took advantage of several sturdy "mounting points that would interrupt that airflow and yes I created thermal transfer points but it was to 3/4" ply which has it's own modest insulating properties. Without those very sturdy points I would not be able to support my bed, storage cabinet, fridge cabinet and sink pod. I have thinsulate attached to the inner metal skin over large areas. But from the floor to the ceiling there are several places where airflow would be broken even with no insulation. I even have some areas where I decided it was impractical to have much if any insulation at all and they are covered with automotive trunk liner. It's probably more a matter of not understanding your particular approach to the overall build. I did not do "framing" inside with "skin" applied to the frame like I commonly see. I used a thicker skin and bolted it directly to the van and filled the gaps with insulation where possible.

I still think prototyping would help validate your approach, work out any issues, and allow you to measure the benefits.

 

[BobATX]

Back on topic. I am also thinking the same thing as the OP. My thought was to do nothing to the van walls for insulation. Insert plusnuts and build panels for walls and maybe even roof that have Thinsulate glued to the back of them. You then use standoffs to apply the panels like 1/2" off the ribs the ribs. Standoff would break the thermal transfer. Gap to wall would allow the heat to flow up and out. Like you I see a closable door to the fan so that in winter you close off the gap and it becomes still space. This gap to the walls also would allow such good airflow that you would never have to worry about water build up and rust from insulation glued to it.

Has anyone tried something like this?

 

[Tijoe]

My idea to beat Texas heat was to move from Austin to Montana! (Shh. Don't let others know this secret technique.) OTOH. It has started snowing again....

 

[Tran 150 2016]

Back on topic. I am also thinking the same thing as the OP. My thought was to do nothing to the van walls for insulation. Insert plusnuts and build panels for walls and maybe even roof that have Thinsulate glued to the back of them. You then use standoffs to apply the panels like 1/2" off the ribs the ribs. Standoff would break the thermal transfer. Gap to wall would allow the heat to flow up and out. Like you I see a closable door to the fan so that in winter you close off the gap and it becomes still space. This gap to the walls also would allow such good airflow that you would never have to worry about water build up and rust from insulation glued to it.

Has anyone tried something like this?

My idea to beat Texas heat was to move from Austin to Montana! (Shh. Don't let others know this secret technique.) OTOH. It has started snowing again....

Lol! Gotta say it. I'm in Austin and 2 days ago the snow finished melting in the yard. Had 3ft Snowman. And... I saw free campsites on the water toward Hyalite Reservoir, South of Bozeman.

Back on topic. I am also thinking the same thing as the OP. My thought was to do nothing to the van walls for insulation. Insert plusnuts and build panels for walls and maybe even roof that have Thinsulate glued to the back of them. You then use standoffs to apply the panels like 1/2" off the ribs the ribs. Standoff would break the thermal transfer. Gap to wall would allow the heat to flow up and out. Like you I see a closable door to the fan so that in winter you close off the gap and it becomes still space. This gap to the walls also would allow such good airflow that you would never have to worry about water build up and rust from insulation glued to it.

Has anyone tried something like this?

Back to topic.
When ceiling is built out there is a plastic inner frame to insert on the fan.. I'm thinkin' I could drill/cut slits into it between the roof and ceiling for better inner wall circulation. Also, if it's a piece of batting could be snugged into frame in really cold weather. I'm going to give a better description to Vanpackr (look at his quality build!).

 

[Tran 150 2016]

I don't know that I completely understand your vision but to me it sounds sort of like building a contiguous inner wall within the existing walls of the van sort of like a thermos bottle. In my build I took advantage of several sturdy "mounting points that would interrupt that airflow and yes I created thermal transfer points but it was to 3/4" ply which has it's own modest insulating properties. Without those very sturdy points I would not be able to support my bed, storage cabinet, fridge cabinet and sink pod. I have thinsulate attached to the inner metal skin over large areas. But from the floor to the ceiling there are several places where airflow would be broken even with no insulation. I even have some areas where I decided it was impractical to have much if any insulation at all and they are covered with automotive trunk liner. It's probably more a matter of not understanding your particular approach to the overall build. I did not do "framing" inside with "skin" applied to the frame like I commonly see. I used a thicker skin and bolted it directly to the van and filled the gaps with insulation where possible.

I still think prototyping would help validate your approach, work out any issues, and allow you to measure the benefits.

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Beautiful quality work with crystal clear photography. You gave me another idea for a guest bed. Thank you.
You bring up a good point about air flow to the ceiling. I've determined the uninsulated ribs do carry hot air up but will double check that they continue to be hollow as the corner onto the ceiling. If so I am not sure the heat can rise out the fan fast enough to relieve heat buildup - even with multiple coats of reflective insulated outer roof coating, fan exhaust on, lower vents, and window coverings. Also, I have had some success using old bike tubes as heat breaks and am thinking to add then along ribs before attaching breathable attic aluminum and inner wall to lessen heat bridge.
Now, concerning rare cold weather, sunny days are the norm and I think I can force the rising hot air to vent low by closing the higher vents in the fan frame . At night I hope by sticking aluminum to the skin a some of inside heat will reflect back slowing heat loss. I have a medium roof and will have a real heater... eventually
To clarify my idea, my primary focus is to (1) flush out as much heat as possible before it reaches the interior living space and (2) to limit insulation which continues to release heat inside. If I add thinsulate against the skin (under the outer aluminum I sacrifice most of the airgap.
As for modeling, I'm sketchbooking . The ribs are the hardest part. I might mock up one but I may start with just a mock of ribs. :/
You've given me things to consider and recheck plus other ideas. Thank you for you're time.