[GapRunr]

Hello everyone.

I've been lurking for a little while and thought I would join. I'm hoping to pick up a Transit/Sprinter/Promaster within the next year as it would better serve my needs than my current pickup truck. I'm hanging around on the three different forums hoping to learn more about each one so I can make an informed decision on which one to get.

 

[Zyzzyx]

Thought I recognized the name... wondered why you were in 'Introductions'.


The choice sounds familiar. Well, the bit of checking out all three vans. I did the same, went for the Promaster, and am still 'active' on all three forums.

 

[ted]

Welcome.

What current pick up do you have? and out of curiosity, if you're up for it, what will you be using the new van to haul around?

 

[GapRunr]

Welcome.

What current pick up do you have? and out of curiosity, if you're up for it, what will you be using the new van to haul around?

I've currently got a 2009 Ram 1500 Short Bed regular cab 4 x 4. It's the plain jane edition, with vinyl seats, rubber floors and crank windows. On a good day, I can get 14 mpg. It's a great truck and has been completely trouble free, but the gas mileage is horrendous.

I own a motorcycle outfitters shop in Friendsville, TN and use the truck for work and play. I can see myself camping in it from time to time instead of pulling my 6 x 12 trailer with me everywhere. I also ride trials motorcycles and feel that a van would be nicer since all my stuff would be inside and I could stand up to change, work on the bike, etc.

I've been looking at a ProMaster 2500 159" wheelbase high roof since the low load floor and front wheel drive are very appealing, as is the 25-28 mpg highway that many people are getting with the diesel. The Automated manual transmission lacking a torque converter is also appealing to me.

The Transit also has a few things going for it. I like the better build quality, the fact that it is taller inside (HR), and that there are more places to get it worked on than the ProMaster. The extended length is also much cheaper on the Transit than the PM. The downsides are that the diesel option is a lot more than it is on a PM, and being rear wheel drive the load floor is a lot higher, which is noticeable when pushing a 600 pound motorcycle up the ramp.

When the time comes to replace the current truck I'll go test drive both and hopefully there will be a clear winner based on my requirements, which will make the choice easier to make. Or make it impossible to choose,, who knows!

 

[Zyzzyx]

Moto trials?! Awesome!


I've never done motorcycles myself, but have been on bicycles forever (well, can remember 35 years worth on bikes). For awhile I did bicycle trials, loved it. I still have my trials bike and keep thinking of getting back into it. I've watched a couple of the regional moto-trials events, wonderfully low-key stuff, and the guys have said I'd be welcome to ride the sections on my bike, just not while the motos are on them.




I'll admit that we only test drove the PM out of all three, and that was. For us it was the size and shape of the others that turned us away. Didn't like the way the Sprinter pinched in at the top. Would have wanted the HR Extended Transit, but didn't like how absurdly tall and long it looked. Really liked the dimensions and proportions of the PM, so took a couple test drives to make sure it was decent, and it was, so we went for it.

 

[ted]

Great choice in truck, had a ram 1500 years ago and loved it.
Keep us posted on when you finally go to test drive them, interested in hearing what you have to say from that experience

 

[onetwo]

to each his own, I wouldn't even consider a ProMaster.

its cheaper for a reason. and I really can't see long term durability with the front drive set up.

Fiat/Chrysler quality is horrendous overall, last place in recent Consumer Reports quality index.

The Promaster I sat in at the auto show had uncomfortable seats, a radio that looked like it was from the 70s, and a cheap cheap looking plastic on the dash.

 

[GapRunr]

to each his own, I wouldn't even consider a ProMaster.

its cheaper for a reason. and I really can't see long term durability with the front drive set up.

Fiat/Chrysler quality is horrendous overall, last place in recent Consumer Reports quality index.

The Promaster I sat in at the auto show had uncomfortable seats, a radio that looked like it was from the 70s, and a cheap cheap looking plastic on the dash.

Despite those thoughts, the Ducato outsells the Transit, and the Transit is FWD in Europe. It has held up well. I sat in a Transit today and it looked familiar. It has the same HVAC controls that I had in my 84 Escort. The controls seemed low and out of the line of sight. Ford is usually much better at that type of design.

I'll agree that the fit, finish, and build quality of the Transit looks to be better than the Promaster. But at $5K-$7K more for a comparably equipped van it should be better built. I just wish the Transit Diesel was getting MPG numbers as good as the Promaster Diesel.

 

[onetwo]

Despite those thoughts, the Ducato outsells the Transit, and the Transit is FWD in Europe. It has held up well. I sat in a Transit today and it looked familiar. It has the same HVAC controls that I had in my 84 Escort. The controls seemed low and out of the line of sight. Ford is usually much better at that type of design.

I'll agree that the fit, finish, and build quality of the Transit looks to be better than the Promaster. But at $5K-$7K more for a comparably equipped van it should be better built. I just wish the Transit Diesel was getting MPG numbers as good as the Promaster Diesel.

I could care less about who outsells who, McDonalds sells more hamburgers than anybody else on this planet, doesn't mean they are any good or of good quality.

Whatever is sold in europe, doesn't concern me either. Only what I can buy today in my home market.

RE: the promaster. The reviews I have read, from trusted sources, state that the driving position (bus like and uncomfortable) leaves much to be desired. Excessive dive, body roll, ride motions were all left with deficiencies compared to the competition. The lousy steering feel (numb) required constant correction. Other demerits went towards braking. Then there is the issue of Fiat/Chryslers reputation for poor overall quality. In their whole line up, not just the Promaster.


As a contrast, the Transit's handling felt "remarkably planted, with a stunning lack of body roll". Many on the forum have praised the Transit for its handling. It's cabin comfort, utility abilities, and available EcoBoost power train were also well lauded.


It's simply a better truck overall, better built, higher quality, and I'm willing to wager, it will last a lot longer on the road than the front drive ProMaster will....

 

[GapRunr]

Wow… is everyone on here as friendly as this guy?

Please post your trusted sources. Since I am still shopping, I'd like to read anything I can regarding the Transit and its competition. I like the Transit, I just wish it got the mileage that its competitors do or at least didn't cost so much more.

As for the bus like sitting position, yes, the Promaster does have that. It must be a very uncomfortable sitting position for people who drive all day… you know... like bus drivers, tractor trailer operators, subway operators…

It sure sounds that the upright bus driver position is not for you. Thats fine. But it doesn't mean that it's the wrong position, or that it is bad. Many people like it a lot more. If everyone liked the same position to drive in then all cars would have the same position and adjustments wouldn't be necessary.

Differing viewpoints on something is nothing to be afraid about. It's called discussion.

 

[onetwo]

But it doesn't mean that it's the wrong position, or that it is bad..

No, it just means its poorly designed and little thought was given to operator comfort.

if you enjoy hunching over the steering wheel, and having your legs splayed, in a monkey like position, all the power to you...



.

 

[ted]

subway operators actually sit quite differently compared to tractor trailers and buses.

 

[onetwo]

subway operators actually sit quite differently compared to tractor trailers and buses.

Do subways even have a steering wheel?

 

[PeterR]

Do subways even have a steering wheel?

Oops, I think ted was referring to the splay of their feet, actually . . .

>

 

[GapRunr]

subway operators actually sit quite differently compared to tractor trailers and buses.

True, there isn't a steering column. I was referring to the upright sitting position, back straight, arms forward and down, and legs bent at 90 degrees with feet flat on the floor . Some operators are standing. It depends on the brand of subway. I've never seen one where you sit like you do in a car with feet forward.

I wonder why the entire truck and bus industry hasn't given any thought to operator comfort and remains so poorly designed?

 

[35603]

GapRunr,
I sure wouldn't take buying advice from someone who hasn't even driven the Promaster.
I own a Promaster diesel and can comment on onetwo's statements:

"driving position (bus like and uncomfortable) leaves much to be desired." My experience after completing several 400 mile days is this position is very comfortable.

"Excessive dive, body roll, ride motions were all left with deficiencies compared to the competition." I test drove a Transit and it felt about the same as the Promaster as to the on road dynamics. I will admit the driving positions were different with the Transit more car like.

"The lousy steering feel (numb) required constant correction." That simply is not the case on my Promaster.

"Other demerits went towards braking." The Brembo brakes on the Promaster are excellent and stop the vehicle very effectively. Some of the strongest, specifically with initial bite, I have ever experienced in a truck. I will admit some Promasters experience brake squeal but it can be mitigated with anti squeal treatment.

 

[alarmist]

Don't mind onetwo. He's a careless electrician so he gets a lot of unintentional electro-shock therapy. I do agree with him though. I was close to buying a promaster and went for the transit. For the reasons he listed and also the hood. Open the hood on a promaster and you will see what I mean. The engine/transaxle was designed to come out easily because you need to remove it to add wiper fluid, check the oil level, etc. Just kidding, but it is really slim on access.

 

[onetwo]

at the end of the day, buy what you like.

In addition to my other previous comments, For me the ProMaster carries too many risks, and bothers me because it wasn't really designed for truck duty like the Transit is from the ground up.


-gas engine tranny- this is the transmission from the minivan. For truck duty? No thanks.

-front wheel drive- I don't think I need to speak further on this.

-towing capacity- correct me if Im wrong, but I understand that the ProMaster had a pathetic tow rating compared to others?



So, too many demerits, and I just don't see enough "tough truck" built into it, which tells me this thing would make a good delivery vehicle for a Flower shop, and thats about it.

I can't see this thing taking a beating on a construction site, or other heavy duty work. Long term durability combined with Fiat/Chrysler atrocious quality record would scare the bejeezus out of me....



.

 

[Damaskinos_of_Athens]

.
Besides all the stated reasons why Transit is superior, remember that Transit is built in Kansas City by American union labour ( UAW 249 ).

Promaster comes from Mexico, Sprinter from Germany, for now.

So support your fellow Americans, who are also building the better product.
.

 

[willy1959]

Hi Gaprunr, is that referring to DEALS GAP? Love that road, just love it. been thru in all my sports cars, not my bike yet.

I posted a a while back about a friend of mine who owns both the pro and the transit.

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...talked-colleague-today-about-his-transit.html

of course that is just one persons opinion. the last 3-4 days I have been building tool racks in my transit, the height of the floor is really wearing on me while doing all the fitting etc, I am designing my racks so that my most common needs can be reached while standing outside the vehicle, on the ground for that reason. I stated once before that the lower height of the promasters' mid roof, IF it fits in an 8' door might have swayed me to a pro had I thought about it in advance. The transits mid roof being 8'3" would not, so I opted for the high roof. After owning for 3 weeks I do not regret the decision.