Just completed a 2000 km trip to an enduro motorcyle race in British Columbia loaded with 5000# trailer and dirt bikes and had a couple minor issues pulling VERY steep grade with the unit. Outside temps were 40 degree C. starting our climb into race site which is about 7.5 km straight up the mountain near Lytton, BC. I have the 350 HD dually with the diesel in it. I have also installed transmission temperature and water temperature gauges just to keep an eye on things while towing. When indicated temps, both tranny and engine got just over 210 F the van completely powered down and wouldn't move. We pulled over to the side, increased RPM and quickly brought the temps below 205 F and were able to get going again. We had to do this at least 10 times getting into the race site. I had TCS locked out and in tow haul mode and tried different combinations but it didn't seem to make any difference. The van just didn't like the combination of high ambient air temps and very steep grade for the 7.5 km climb. Had to run the transmission in first and second gear all the way in. Never boiled over the diesel and I checked the tranny fluid once we got to the site and it seemed perfect. This is likely the hardest thing my van will ever have to do. I would have liked it more if it didn't go into this "preservation mode" but I guess if you didn't have the gauges you would never know exactly what the temps were doing. There was no indication that came up on the information display and the factory engine temp gauge never moved from the half way mark where it usually sits even though the engine according to my aftermarket gauge indicated nearly 215 F at one point. I might get the tranny oil annalyzed just to see what they say and if I do I will post results but it didn't smell and appearance was fine.
Hardest work my 350 HD will likely ever have to do!
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That dash engine temp "gauge" is like the temp icon in my 1998 Beetle. It's blue when it's cold, off when it's warm and red when it's hot. In other words, it's completely meaningless to telling you real information. The Transit "gauge is the same. Watch it when it warms up from cold and you will see how fast the needle moves and I bet you that the actual temperature isn't climbing that fast.
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Any idea what your gross weight was? Sounds like you had it max'd out, or more.
That sounds like a fault to me. I'd have the dealer check it out.
Not the same of course, but I have run my 2003 GMC Savana engine coolant up to 230 degrees pulling a heavy trailer over the grapevine before turning on the cab heater to assist with the engine cooling. 215 is pretty moderate for transmission oil. If your 350HD is going into "limp" mode at 210 degrees I think something is wrong with the control.
Yes I would have been maxxed out for sure. I was ok with it doing this other than it was a bit unerrving at first. I won't likely tow the traile up the hill for next years event. The last two years I took my 2500HD chevy duramax in that had double the HP and torque and it got pretty hot as well. It was never this high of ambient temp before going in either. I think if it had been 10 or 15 degrees cooler this might not have happened. Everything came together for the ultimate test and I'm ok with the outcome. Little diesel pulls good so I'm happy.
Any idea how steep the "VERY steep grade" got?
I'm also curious what RPM you tried to hold in 1st or 2nd to prevent it from overheating? Also, what axle gear ratio do you have with your diesel?
By the way, nice looking van/trailer combo.
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I thought these had electric fans? I cant remember off the top of my head... The cooling system could be why these vans are limited power/weight towing wise. No doubt the slow speeds also had a huge impact, the slower you go, the slower the air is traveling over the radiator.
Where is your coolant temp sender installed? That can make a difference.
My only advice is to turn the heater on full blast next time to help pull a little extra heat out of the coolant.
Where is your coolant temp sender installed? That can make a difference.
My only advice is to turn the heater on full blast next time to help pull a little extra heat out of the coolant.
Pulling a trailer that big, you might consider an aftermarket trans oil cooler. I sure would....
Might have your dealer look at it but I bet there's no codes. These new vehicles have all kinds of "self protecting" features available that we don't know about....
Might have your dealer look at it but I bet there's no codes. These new vehicles have all kinds of "self protecting" features available that we don't know about....
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I think something is amiss here. If it went into limp mode like that, it should have thrown a CEL. And although the factory gauges on Ford suck, if it was a temperature related problem, the factory gauge would have gone into the Hot zone.
I would like to know how steep it was too. A regular 6% highway grade, or something steeper?
The problem with the 3.2 Powerstroke is power. You can only do so much with 185/350 ft lbs. I can attest, I have an old Ford IDI (now turbo'ed thankfully), which from the factory is roughly identical to the number that the Powerstroke puts out (lets factor out elevation).
I would like to know how steep it was too. A regular 6% highway grade, or something steeper?
The problem with the 3.2 Powerstroke is power. You can only do so much with 185/350 ft lbs. I can attest, I have an old Ford IDI (now turbo'ed thankfully), which from the factory is roughly identical to the number that the Powerstroke puts out (lets factor out elevation).
How would this help "if" overheating is indeed the problem? Transmissions are the same and radiator no bigger as far as I know. If anything the EB has the potential to generate a lot more heat.
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Able to travel at higher speeds = more airflow over radiator.
While what you say is literally correct, it's very likely a losing battle for keeping cool. As power increases so does heat generation, and very likely at a faster rate than the increase air flow will improve heat transfer off the radiator.
At those very low speeds going up a steep hill, if we double the power the vehicle will be able to travel approximately twice as fast, but cooling off the radiator will not come close to doubling. The only thing that could save this balance is if the engine transfers a lot less heat to coolant per horsepower. That's "possible" but unlikely in this case since diesels are more efficient.
In this case there could be something goofy (i.e. -- unusual) going on with these diesel vans that prevent them from working as hard as the engine rating suggests under certain conditions. It could be under-hood high temperature, high oil temperature, or who knows what (other than Ford). Whatever it is doesn't sound typical of larger diesel trucks.
I guess I'm just saying that historically, when the same vehicle got a larger engine, they often got larger radiators too. Usually more power meant more cooling need. Either way, regardless of what's happening, it's disappointing.
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I would't say disappointing.
If this was a load that someone would be hauling regularly, then they would need a bigger vehicle. One that could handle this load. But for many people, a big V8 PSD is WAY more than they need 95% of the time, a smaller vehicle makes more sense.
I know a guy that owns a diesel performance shop and he hauls decent loads occasionally, but nothing big. SO he bought a Dodge Half ton Ecodiesel. One of my friends owns a small construction company. He is constantly hauling big loads and if need be, he can haul 40,000#s. If he bought the Ecodiesel, for that, the results would be disappointing because he bought the wrong vehicle.
Glenn knows that this was an anomaly for him, and he is apparently at the stage in life where he just gets things done. I don't think that he sounds disappointed at all:
Folks.
I don't know what the grade going into the race site is but it is very steep and twisting which doesn't allow you to get out of first gear for most of the 7.5 km climb. My diesel has an electric fan as well as a clutch fan and both were working. Something that I like on the Transit is that for tranny cooling Ford has gone with plate exchanger which has coolant on one side and tranny fluid on the other. This in my opinion allows for much better temperature control as opposed to the air fin cooler which requires air flow that I had on my duramax and allison tranny. My duramax got hot the previous two years that I had gone to this location pulling a toy hauler but it never went into limp mode, just some of the warnings came up on the display that things were getting hot. I'm going to take the Transit into the dealer just to see if there were any codes that came in or not. The thing I found strange was there was no indication on the information screen what was happening. The good thing is that it preserved itself way before any problems were encountered, the bad was that I could have likely pushed it a bit harder if it wouldn't have gone into limp mode and powered out. I'm quite fine with what it did as mentioned this will have been the hardest pull this van will ever do under any circumstances. I maintained RPM's as high as I could as this keeps lots of flow through the turbo etc and provides more flow of coolant through the engine as well as the little tranny cooler. Other vehicles that went into the site also had problems with the heat and the climb and as mentioned the Transit never spewed a drop of coolant so whatever was tripping it out was certainly protecting it. My biggest concern wasn't the engine so much as the tranny and afterwards when I checked the tranny fluid appeared and smelled fine. Sorry to the fellow that mentioned about getting a EB gas pot but nothing pulls like a diesel I believe under load so I wouldn't consider that for the application that I'm using this unit for. The engine passed the test as far as I was concerned the only thing I'm wondering about will be the tranny over the long term and whether it will become the weak link or not? Time will tell but for now I'm very impressed with the little diesel and combination in the Transit. My duramax pulled like a freight train, had a great tranny but used almost twice the fuel whether I was towing or running empty so the Transit has been great so far. My only wish is that for the HD model as part of the tow package is that you could get tranny temp indication and pyrometer would be nice as well. If I'm towing I like to see accurate engine temp., tranny temp., and pyrometer (back end of the turbo) so I know how hard its working. I have two of those installed now but still need to figure out pyrometer so if anyone has done that please let me know.
I don't know what the grade going into the race site is but it is very steep and twisting which doesn't allow you to get out of first gear for most of the 7.5 km climb. My diesel has an electric fan as well as a clutch fan and both were working. Something that I like on the Transit is that for tranny cooling Ford has gone with plate exchanger which has coolant on one side and tranny fluid on the other. This in my opinion allows for much better temperature control as opposed to the air fin cooler which requires air flow that I had on my duramax and allison tranny. My duramax got hot the previous two years that I had gone to this location pulling a toy hauler but it never went into limp mode, just some of the warnings came up on the display that things were getting hot. I'm going to take the Transit into the dealer just to see if there were any codes that came in or not. The thing I found strange was there was no indication on the information screen what was happening. The good thing is that it preserved itself way before any problems were encountered, the bad was that I could have likely pushed it a bit harder if it wouldn't have gone into limp mode and powered out. I'm quite fine with what it did as mentioned this will have been the hardest pull this van will ever do under any circumstances. I maintained RPM's as high as I could as this keeps lots of flow through the turbo etc and provides more flow of coolant through the engine as well as the little tranny cooler. Other vehicles that went into the site also had problems with the heat and the climb and as mentioned the Transit never spewed a drop of coolant so whatever was tripping it out was certainly protecting it. My biggest concern wasn't the engine so much as the tranny and afterwards when I checked the tranny fluid appeared and smelled fine. Sorry to the fellow that mentioned about getting a EB gas pot but nothing pulls like a diesel I believe under load so I wouldn't consider that for the application that I'm using this unit for. The engine passed the test as far as I was concerned the only thing I'm wondering about will be the tranny over the long term and whether it will become the weak link or not? Time will tell but for now I'm very impressed with the little diesel and combination in the Transit. My duramax pulled like a freight train, had a great tranny but used almost twice the fuel whether I was towing or running empty so the Transit has been great so far. My only wish is that for the HD model as part of the tow package is that you could get tranny temp indication and pyrometer would be nice as well. If I'm towing I like to see accurate engine temp., tranny temp., and pyrometer (back end of the turbo) so I know how hard its working. I have two of those installed now but still need to figure out pyrometer so if anyone has done that please let me know.
It would be to me. I'm all for saving the engine and transmission but there has to be a better way.
If limp mode was due to overheating, and I'm not sure because 210 to 215 F doesnt really sound all that hot, I would have expected that Ford could reduce power gradually as it got closer to limit without tripping the limp mode.
Glenn, unless you were concerned about going too slow and getting run over, I would try keeping the transmission in first and then slow RPMs to 1500 to 2500 range to see if it stays cooler. Since engine produces same or more torque than at higher RPMs it shouldn't have a problem pulling the grade.
As I mentioned before, increasing power (by increasing RPMs) will very likely increase heat rejection more than what the extra RPMs can add to cooling. I may be wrong but think it's worth trying.
I had a similar problem with a 14,000-lb RV with a V-10 coming out of Death Valley, and was able to limit temperatures by pacing up the hill at a slower rate. Otherwise it got so hot I could feel the heat through engine cover.
A lower axle gear would also come in handy in extreme cases like yours so you can limit power used at same RPM. Normally we'd use a lower transmission gear, but since you were already in first.....
Maybe the problem was the load was to much for the diesel. (?) 400 ft pounds of torque in Ecoboost is pretty impressive compared to the Ford Diesel engine.
The diesel with 3.73 rear end has the highest GCWR and tow rating of all Transit models.
O. I. C.
Well, hopefully Glen will keep us posted as to what his Ford dealer says caused the slow down. Inquiring minds want to know.
That's like comparing apples and oranges. If the problem is overheating, then the torque the engine may or may not be able to produce is of little importance.
The question I'd ask is whether the EcoBoost can produce the same power as the diesel while rejecting less heat to coolant. I'd guess that if you pick a number like 100 HP to minimize chance of overheating, the diesel will run cooler. But like I said, I'm not even sure limp mode was caused by 210 to 215 F coolant.
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