[Tijoe]

Edited to add: I didn't find any M14 x 1.50 x 60mm (or any M14 x 1.50) on the ARP site looking under "wheel" and since it's Saturday I can't call them to see if they make any for the Ford Transit AWD wheel hub.

Search in the ARP catalog under 2015 to 2017 Ford Mustang wheel studs. (Summit racing is also a good place to do a cross check if you know the thread, pitch and length you are looking for, then find the ARP P/N and search out the least expensive place that sells them.)

 

[Vanaroo]

Search in the ARP catalog under 2015 to 2017 Ford Mustang wheel studs.

Good tip. I found two different ones for that era Mustang that match the diameter, and they do look to match thread pitch of the Transit

They do look extra long though. The shorter ones (pictured and linked below) are ~75mm; the longer ones are ~87mm. Looks like the stock Transit AWD front studs are 60mm.

On the other hand, these are listed as .5" over stock length. That means stock length for the Mustang would be about 61.8mm, or just a tiny bit longer than the Transit. I don't see stock size on the ARP page or in their catalog, but it's possible I missed it.

The Official ARP Web Site | Kits

arp-bolts.com

 

[gregoryx]

Alright so my opinion on the matter was requested so here goes.
...

Well... all makes good sense and all that. Sad part is that it was "fixable" with just studs but it seemed clear that Ford would not do that - even if studs were available from another source. So... that bothers me. Especially when the approved part is back-ordered. 😠

But I /really/ wish I knew you were there! Friendly and Country were the two that showed up on my search. I called Friendly first and got voicemail. Then I called Country and had what felt like a decent interaction with George (different George) there, so... as it went. Good reminder that Lincoln is another option. Duh.

That said, I'd sure be curious if any Ford dealer would have fixed it. Or said, "sorry, no parts until we have the hub," as I suspect. 🤔

Great write up! Sorry to read about your encounter with Mad Max, and great job keeping it rubber side down post collision! Just curious, did anyone mention taking your van to a truck stop shop? I love the George Shop, and the photo is priceless, but I have had several friends that have had some amazing work done at truck stops over the years and this seems like something that may be, unfortunately, a fairly common repair.
BTW- amazing to see how clear the water was in the Subway, you were lucky to get it that way!

I never thought of a truck repair shop - though we went that route with the Sprinter, frequently. Good reminder!

I can't see this being a "common repair" (hopefully) but it's quite a reminder to me to ignore Ford in many cases: common sense repairs are sometimes preferable to manufacturer-approved ones; though I didn't expect that to be a factor for the first 100K miles or so.

As usual, super useful post that not only explains the situation but also makes us feel less like we are up against a bureacracy (because it always feels less like that when you have some way of seeing into the process).

It still feels a bit like Ford is making it more of a disposable world which goes a bit contrary to where I would like to see things heading (like "no, we don't sell watch band pins, you just buy a new watch from us -- only we are backordered for months on those, sorry!"). I can see value in making the effort to stock the types of things that can fix a perfectly good bigger thing with less waste. (Especially when said bigger thing is unobtanium.)

OTOH, at least the studs are replaceable if you can find some at a non-Ford parts shop. When I first started reading the thread I thought maybe the whole thing was one monolithic piece, which would be so much worse.

a

That's great. One thing that has always kept me from going to larger or dealer shops, is how they just wheel your vehicle away into the mysterious "back," and you never know who might be working on it (plus it's probably someone different every time). It'd be like as a person going to a different random doctor every time (to whom you can't even speak). I like that your management is happy to work with customers that way. Sounds like a great place to work.

You and they will know who we are when we come in and ask for "cosmicjumperalex" to work on our Transits 😄

Agreed: good for all of us to KNOW that they CAN be replaced.

TBH, I was hoping @cosmicjumperalex was going to give me some reason to be concerned about why they /should/ be all one unit and all that. But I'd guess he's correct that it's just a "what do we keep in stock" issue. (And has nothing to do with whether that's best for the customer in any way.)

From a studly perspective... I don't think for any of the cars I have owned, that had wheel stud issues, or that I wanted to replace, finding the correct stud has ever been an easy task. This is why ARP is my friend. I used ARP studs in my Transit dually axles when I spaced out my dually rear wheels. I also believe that ARP's products are all of higher quality and strength than any OEM wheel stud. (Back in my autocross days, I would replace all the wheel studs with ARP studs because I was swapping wheels on a regular basis, and the OEM stud's threads didn't hold up very well over time.)

From a dealer perspective, what is the probability that an idiot is going to side swipe your van and hit you on the right front wheel breaking 3 wheel studs. Being hit by lightening might be a higher probability. I think you were lucky finding a shop that was able to source something that worked as fast at they did. These days, most low volume car parts are all kept in regional distribution centers, and not in a local auto parts store or inventory.

Mostly, it was a reminder to me that I need to carry more tools with me and not rely on Ford as my repair source. IOW, pretty much the way it was with the Sprinter. Good news is, there's so much that can be sourced at old-school auto-supply shops if we can figure out what the replacement parts actually are.

Greg,

I'm super glad that the driver was able to keep the van under control during the incident: high roof extended must be a lot to manage. Do you think the AWD or any electronics helped keep it under control?

Anything to share regarding the strengths and weaknesses of your build and the sudden deceleration and jostling? I'm in the process of installing an inside propane tank (ala Faroutride) and keeping things in their place during an accident is on the top of my mind.

Thanks,

Mike

I'm happy to say I don't think the sturdiness of the build nor the fanciness of the automobile's advanced features were much of a factor here. I only say, "happy," because I'm glad that things didn't get "tested" in this case. Sure... I want to know how well our build-method will hold up in a worst-case scenario... but I sure don't want to be part of said worst-case scenario.

Like others here, I suspect our method is relatively solid. As in, "relative to... something." How big of a hit would it take to bust up the aluminum stuff that's all bolted together? Or bust the plywood that anchors between the walls and the structure? Or pull the bolts through the floor for the bed or the seat? I sure don't want to find out.

If you're interested in the vehicle's fancy electronics doing /their/ job, check out this thread. I'm pretty confident the van's electronics saved us (from me and the other idiot) that night.

As far as, "high roof extended must be a lot to manage," it really doesn't seem like it. But we're also comparing it to a 2011 Sprinter 170 that we put a lot of miles on. We're all used to dealing with that thing... and the Transit handles a LOT better in every situation. So if one is comparing it to a small sedan... sure... it's a lot. But, in this case, I think our saving grace was that hitting a 9,000 pound rig with a ~4,000 pound rig has some physics going to our advantage. My right arm was on the door arm-rest and was a bit bruised; other than that, we just got a really surprising JOLT and were into the center divider. Would have been a whole different game if we were in our Tesla Model 3, I'd guess - more even match and even damage, I'd guess.

That said... thankful those four bent-up studs held on. Could've been ugly if that wheel had folded under in impact. 😲

 

[tmalcolm]

Alright so my opinion on the matter was requested so here goes.

With any component that Ford sells to dealerships and customers there is a manufacturing, shipping and replacement regularity analysis that is performed. In this case when it comes to lug nut studs and the subsequent related hub that they sell it with as an assembly this is done for one of a few likely reasons. What I would bet is the most likely reason is that it is incredibly uncommon to replace just the studs. If Ford want's to sell just the studs along with the hubs that means producing more studs than they currently do, creating packaging materials for those studs specifically, doing additional shipping and handling for those studs, creating a place to store those studs and also adding the studs into all of the parts catalogs and what not. This is actually a considerable amount of money when you start factoring in the scale of Ford motorcompany. If they project that there will be too few sales of the studs alone, the cost benefit analysis returns with do not sell them independent of the hubs. Hubs get replaced for various reasons and are more common that just straight up studs.

I understand that it can be frustrating for the end consumer to be forced into buying an entire hub rather than an individual stud but Ford is not in the business of shorting themselves for your convenience. I don't mean to sound harsh but I am trying to make the point clear.


Also I would like to just state for anyone who may pass through Vegas, there are not only 2 Ford dealerships but actually 4 and also a Lincoln dealership that works on Fords as well. Friendly Ford (this is my place of work), Team Ford (Also owned by the same person who owns Friendly Ford), Country Ford and Gaudin Ford. They are all decent dealerships in my opinion. When I first moved to Las Vegas I actually interviewed at all 4 dealerships and ended up choosing Friendly Ford because I felt the management was best. Greg (he was the main service manager at the time and now is the GM of both Friendly and Team) is the best manager I have ever worked for. I am truly blessed to be working for him. His second in command at the time, Michelle, is now the main service manager and has been trained to operate similarly to Greg. She's been awesome to work for as well, very sharp, takes care of the techs with the utmost respect and has a strong head on her shoulders to keep everyone in line. If anyone is in Vegas or passing through and needs something done, please feel free to come to Friendly Ford. I do gasoline engine repair so if you've got a water pump that is leaking or an internal engine failure/noise that needs addressing, you are also welcome to request me directly if you would like. Management will be happy to send your vehicle direct to me for those repairs. Friendly Ford has won the Ford Presidents award (award given to the top 10 dealerships in the country for customer satisfaction and repair hours completed) 31 times in the last 50 years. We've gotten that award the last 2 years in a row since I've been here.

Thanks for the offer to request you if needed in the Vegas area! Great information and congrats on the service acknowledgments!