[brío]

I have never heard the voltage range recommendation before, but it certainly makes sense. The fuel volume test is checking the fuel pump, which is the closest thing the system has to a precise metering system. If the voltage is slightly too high, I could easily imagine the symptom you are describing, since you may be getting just a hair more fuel than the burner can deal with over time.

If that turns out to be the issue, a fix might be to feed the heater through a 12VDC regulator, or even a large low-value resistor if you don't mind wasting power.

 

[gregoryx]

@RidingRoadsAndTrails, if this ends up being a voltage issue, I'd be a bit surprised. I'm assuming most everyone else is driving theirs from a lithium setup as well and this hasn't been reported that I can recall.

In our case, we're regulated 12V since the batteries are 24V, so no input there.

FWIW, I got an error similar to that when we first fired up - something about the fuel supply and it had me worried that something was wrong. I disconnected the line and let the fuel pump spray out fuel at the pump, then again at the heater - confirming it was squirting all over the place - and reconnected them as best I could and it never came back.

 

[brío]

if this ends up being a voltage issue, I'd be a bit surprised. I'm assuming most everyone else is driving theirs from a lithium setup as well and this hasn't been reported that I can recall.

That is true. But, when something is just a little out of spec, that is what you see. The system tolerances have enough margin that small "fudges" usually work fine. But every unit is slightly different, so some small percentage of the time it will come back to bite you.

I am definitely just speculating, but these units are known for being a bit fussy when things aren't just right.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Thanks for the input. Espar support wants me to go to the service center in Denver. I'd like to exhaust all other avenues first. I ordered the 12v voltage stabilizer and a replacement fuel metering pump. I don't like blindly throwing money at a problem, but this is likely cheaper than a trip to the service center.

Also, here is a website with Espar troubleshooting & background info that I haven't found before. It was worth it (for me anyway) to read through some of their pages. https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_fuel_1.html

 

[gregoryx]

...
Also, here is a website with Espar troubleshooting & background info that I haven't found before. It was worth it (for me anyway) to read through some of their pages. https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_fuel_1.html

Great find! So hard to find any useful info on these things...

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Can you do a test below 4000 feet elevation?

Just an update -

I'm now at sea level and I get the same result as when I am at 7250 feet. The heater runs fine for about 25 minutes and then stops with the P000129 (Flame cutout within the control range 75% – 100%). Watching the fuel line when it is running, it looks exactly the same as when I am at altitude. No bubbles before the fuel pump, some small bubbles after.

I'm not in a position to do any more troubleshooting until I get home in 3 - 4 weeks.
- I have the 12v voltage stabilizer at home.
- I am still on the hook to do the fuel quantity test. If it is too high, the remediation is to replace the fuel pump. If it is too low, the remediation check the fuel lines for leaks or blockages.

The fuel pump I ordered from EsparParts was for the previous generation heater and won't work with mine, so I sent it back. I guess it would have been nice if their product description was clearer about that. I'll have to find another source for a new pump since EsparParts doesn't carry the newer version of the pump.

 

[Rolf]

so I am about to put in order soon for 148 WB medium roof, and the extended 31
gallon Tank will be one of my options, so it sounds like the gasoline heaters are
not really very compatible with the auxiliary fuel line and its not worth the extra
100 bucks for option 63F, if you got to drop the tank anyway for the better fuel
line system?? Or is for one particular brand or gasoline heaters in general?

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

so I am about to put in order soon for 148 WB medium roof, and the extended 31
gallon Tank will be one of my options, so it sounds like the gasoline heaters are
not really very compatible with the auxiliary fuel line and its not worth the extra
100 bucks for option 63F, if you got to drop the tank anyway for the better fuel
line system??

That is the general consensus, the option is not useful for gasoline heaters if you plan to use the heater at altitude.

 

[Rolf]

Yep I will be at altitudes over 8000 feet at some of my favorite places, It sounds
like I should not get option 63F and save 100 bucks.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Here's an update on my heater troubleshooting, it's been a while and this thread is many pages long, so first a recap:

- Performed a DIY install of the Espar M2 B4L with the Espar standpipe
- The heater fan would run, but heater itself would not start (Error code P000223)
- Contacted Espar support in Canada and they had me send them the ECU which they reflashed.
- Updated ECU allowed heater to function and I thought all was good since I didn't run it for more than 10 minutes
- Months later, I attempted to run the heater for longer periods of time and discovered that the heater would shut down with
P000129 (Flame cutout within the control range 75% – 100% ) and occasionally
P000342 (Invalid configuration, Check ADR coding).

So now I pick up with additional steps from the troubleshooting guide and Espar tech support:
- tested at sea level, I live at about 7250 feet, no difference
- purchased and installed a voltage regulator so the power source is now 12.44 volts instead of 13.5v of the lithium battery - no change
- purchased & installed a new fuel metering pump - no change
- performed the 60 second fuel quantity test many times, results in about 5ml each time when 8.1ml is the desired quantity
- performed fuel quantity test with alternate fuel metering pump, same result
- Since the fuel quantity test was low, I suspect an impingement between the fuel tank and the Espar fuel metering pump. I repeated the fuel quantity test with a gas can as the fuel source and a different piece of Espar fuel line, same result (5ml instead of the desired 8.1ml)

Next up:
- is it possible I got 2 bad fuel metering pumps that behave nearly identically?
- I'm relatively confident that the fuel line from the van sending unit to the heater fuel metering pump is clear since the gas can test produced the same results.
- the heater ECU could still be bad?
- the Easy Start Pro controller could be bad?
- start over with a whole new kit? $$$
- ThermoKing service center? $$$

I've sent this info to Espar support. I haven't seen any posts anywhere on the web that anyone has had to go this deep into troubleshooting one of these heaters and I think Espar support has exhausted their bag of tricks for me.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[NW_Freedom]

Bummer deal. For such a expensive piece you'd hope to have no issues

 

[WyoLogz]

Can you use a larger supply line and test with the pumps to see if it makes a difference?

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Can you use a larger supply line and test with the pumps to see if it makes a difference?

The Espar provided fuel line matches the diameter of the standpipe, the fuel metering pump input & output ports as well as the heater's fuel input port. This is the same fuel line that is used in most installations without issue. This is also the same fuel line I used in my previous van without issue, although that was diesel. Without enlarging the ports, I doubt that using a larger diameter fuel line is likely to help.

I do appreciate the suggestion.

 

[Janus9]

Silent Diesel Heater Pump

I wanted to share an amazing piece of tech for those of you with Chinese diesel heaters or for those of you planning to install one. I was initially tipped off to this by ForestyForest's youtube channel and ordered one for my install. A very, very smart gentleman named James Browning-Smith out...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Maybe an adjustable pump like this would work.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Silent Diesel Heater Pump

I wanted to share an amazing piece of tech for those of you with Chinese diesel heaters or for those of you planning to install one. I was initially tipped off to this by ForestyForest's youtube channel and ordered one for my install. A very, very smart gentleman named James Browning-Smith out...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Maybe an adjustable pump like this would work.

Thanks, I'll reach out to him and get his thoughts on compatibility with my heater and whether it could solve this problem.

 

[brío]

Hmm. Tough one.
First of all, I concur that you definitely don't want a fuel line larger than spec. They do not work. I speak from experience.

It seems to me that there are only two possibilities:
1) Both pumps are out of spec (or you have the incorrect pumps).
2) The controller is sending pulses at the wrong rate.
I think it is time to measure pulses. This reference gives the correct values for various units:

Fuel faults 1

www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk

He also says that you can adjust the spring tension in the pump. I wouldn't try that prior to a diagnosis, though.

Keep us informed.

 

[skTransit]

Hmmm, @RidingRoadsAndTrails sorry to hear about the issues. For us, we were intrigued/educated by John Mck 47 series on diesel heaters. This video is specific to fuel delivery and inspired me to get a few small mm diameter drill bits to try and verify what the ID was of the hard plastic line which came with our M2 B4L. He also details issues which can occur depending on how one cuts the hard plastic fuel line. (For example refrain from using side cutter pliers, ...)
If you have already reviewed John McK 47 youtube series, apologies for posting old news.

 

[gregoryx]

Agreed with @brío analysis. I'd sure be wishing / hoping they'd get me a brand new unit. My guess is on the unit side, not the pump side.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Some updates:

Espar support said that the fuel quantity test may be a red herring since I am at 7250 ft elevation and the automatic altitude adjustment is likely sending less fuel. They did not offer an exact quantity for my elevation, but felt the 5ml result should be fine. They asked me to perform these troubleshooting steps:

• validate the flame sensor
• validate the temperature sensor
• run without the air intake hose
• run with kerosene for 30 minutes (assuming the heater runs that long)

@skTransit Thanks for that info. I did round out the fuel line ends with a tiny pick, it was just habit from working on bicycles and replacing cable housings that require the same thing after cutting. I didn't verify the ID of the fuel line yet, but it would give piece of mind.

@Janus9 I did reach out to James, and yes, he is impressive and responsive. I will try to work through these other troubleshooting steps before pursuing. Although, worst case, his pump might help troubleshoot since I would have control over the flow rate.

@brío Thanks, with the update from Espar support about the difference in fuel quantity, I'll hold off with that for now.

@gregoryx Espar does not seem to want to replace anything. Their warranty work must be done through a service center. Thermo King is the only service center that I am aware of in my area. Their hourly rate is high enough that it is possible that I could buy a new unit and come out ahead, especially since each test takes about 15-30 minutes to generate the error code. Maybe I'm just being stubborn in not wanting to deal with Thermo King to my own detriment. We'll see where this round of troubleshooting goes and maybe I'll soften my stance.

If you are interested, see page 26 & 27 of the attached Espar repair doc for how to test the sensors.

Thanks all for your input. I'll post an update when I have more.

EDIT: removed obsolete version of the Espar Repair Instructions doc. See subsequent post for more recent 01.2021 version.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Here is another update:

1) Run heater without air intake hose - no change. Heater shut off after about 15 minutes with a P000129 error code.

2) Test sensors. I located the XS2 connector coming from the EasyStart Pro controller.

The 10.2019 version of the "Repair Instructions" document I have differed from the screenshot of the doc sent by Espar support. The 10.2019 version shows chambers 1 & 3 for the overheating sensor where the screenshot shows chamber 1 & 2. The 10.2019 version shows chambers 1 & 2 for the flame sensor where the screenshot shows 2 & 3. Anyway, I took readings from all 3 possible combinations and the results are:
1 & 2 - open, no reading
2 & 3 - open, no reading
1 & 3 - 1221 @ 6°C

I reverified that the 4 wires from the main harness to the EasyStart Pro all match their respective colors. I do not have the optional external temperature sensor.

I have not yet run the kerosene test as I think we are onto something with the sensor test.

Here is the screenshot Espar support sent that is different from the repair instructions doc I posted above (click to expand):

The Espar support folks are off for a few days, I'll post another update when I hear back.