Espar B4L Heater not starting at Elevation

43710 Views 322 Replies 60 Participants Last post by brío, 4 mo ago

idahoconv

Discussion Starter · Jan 25, 2021

So I installed a Espar B4L in my 2020 transit, under the passenger seat and have a problem with the heater starting when I am at elevation.

I live in Boise ID, at around 3k feet elevation, when down here in the valley my heater starts 99% of the time without issues. When I travel to my local ski area around 6800K feet the heater NEVER starts first try and generally will take around 30+ minutes of trying to get the thing started. Once it does starts at elevation, it will run absolutely fine stopping and starting. When I got back down in elevation it also will always start fine, and then back up to elevation I again have the problem.

Ive completely taken apart the entire gas line from the pickup in the tank all the way to the heater, ensuring rise, fittings, etc are perfect... still have the same problem of getting it started at elevation.

Heatso has been sorta OK to work with, but I feel like they dont really know either. They will be sending me a new ECU (when they get them in a couple weeks).

Has anyone had this problem, is there a trick to getting it started I could use until i get the root cause sorted?

Appreciate any pointers!

101 - 120 of 323 Posts

gregoryx

· #101 · Oct 6, 2021

wayneIII said:
Im about to pull the trigger on a 2022. I have the Auxiliary fuel port extension line 63F currently in my order, but plan on putting the espar in my van. From reading this thread (and others), I would not even be able to use the auxillary fuel port extnsion line with the espar, correct? Ie, save my money and don't order this option?
thanks

Not correct. You /can/ use it. @Bazz99 has used it successfully with the B4L all last ski season at 9,000 feet. But he also reported it took a couple tries to start sometimes. But that it always worked.

Since we observed a similar "didn't start the first time" using a larger line on our Sprinter and didn't see this with the standpipe on the Transit, I'm suspecting they're related.

So you /can/ use the factory aux. But you might be better off installing the standpipe. And it's not /that/ much work, really.

Bazz99

· #102 · Oct 6, 2021

True, last year I used my heater at least 100 times and I only had to start it more than once a few times.
The only other thing I did different than most installs is I didn't use the small hose that comes in the kit. It didn't make since to me too go from big hose to a small hose back to a big hose? I'm not sure of it mades a difference but I'd guess the more clamps you use the more opportunity for issues?
Here's the video I followed to a T on my install.

Cody's Transit

· #103 · Oct 6, 2021

gregoryx said:
Not correct. You /can/ use it. @Bazz99 has used it successfully with the B4L all last ski season at 9,000 feet. But he also reported it took a couple tries to start sometimes. But that it always worked.

Since we observed a similar "didn't start the first time" using a larger line on our Sprinter and didn't see this with the standpipe on the Transit, I'm suspecting they're related.

So you /can/ use the factory aux. But you might be better off installing the standpipe. And it's not /that/ much work, really.

Ok go ahead an use it. You’ll be right back on the forum trying to trouble shoot.

Reactions: 5

gregoryx

· #104 · Oct 6, 2021

Bazz99 said:
True, last year I used my heater at least 100 times and I only had to start it more than once a few times.
The only other thing I did different than most installs is I didn't use the small hose that comes in the kit. It didn't make since to me too go from big hose to a small hose back to a big hose? I'm not sure of it mades a difference but I'd guess the more clamps you use the more opportunity for issues?
Here's the video I followed to a T on my install.

Interesting. There was no, "big hose," that I used. There were larger hoses designed to slip-fit completely over the tiny one - to be butted together with no "hose" between. Are you referring to those?

brío

· #105 · Oct 6, 2021

My upfitter used bigger-than-spec'd fuel hose. Took me a year of flakey performance to figure out the problem. I finally listened to a professional and tore the whole thing out and used the proper stuff. All issues disappeared.

The only reason these heaters have a reputation for unreliability is that people choose to ignore the very-specific installation instructions, thinking they couldn't possibly matter. You would be crazy to do this.

Reactions: 3

Bazz99

· #106 · Oct 6, 2021

Like I said, I did it exactly the way the guy did it in the video and it works great, no issues at all at high elevation, good luck on your install!!

Reactions: 1

Bazz99

· #107 · Oct 6, 2021

FYI...... there are numerous successful installations in this forum using the Ford Adaptor part instead of the standpipe!!

brío

· #108 · Oct 6, 2021 (Edited)

Well, you should do what you think best.
Maybe it will only fail a "few" times out of 100.

EDIT:
Excuse the sarcasm in the above. The point is that such systems are on the edge of working OK. Mine was fine when brand new. But every failed start (and there should be none) will lead to a fuel-rich ignition on the second try, and will contribute to the fouling of the burner. You will slowly use up the margin of robustness that these heaters have.
Or, maybe you will be lucky and never have issues. Do you really want to depend on luck? There is a reason why the manufacturer goes on-and-on about proper fuel line installation. It is silly not to follow their specifications, IMO.

Reactions: 2

gregoryx

· #109 · Oct 6, 2021

brío said:
Well, you should do what you think best.
Maybe it will only fail a "few" times out of 100.
...

FWIW, I think the objective around here is to present our own experience and let everyone draw their own conclusions.

I seriously considered @Bazz99 reports of working great when installing ours; then I also considered his notes of it taking a few tries to start a few times. I weighed those things against my willingness to do the extra work and my skill, tools, etc between the two methods. I chose standpipe.

I think it would be perfectly understandable for someone else to come to a different conclusion. One doesn't even have to disconnect /anything/ to do the aux connection - let alone remove the tank. That might be a determining factor for some folks. And the risk that it takes a few tries to start might be worth it to them. 🤷‍♀️

Of course, knowing it was someone you PAID to do the install for you... that might piss me off a bit. 😠

I like the phrase, "you do you," but realized that it offends at times - often being read as sarcasm when I don't mean it that way. Both methods are acceptable on this.

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Reactions: 2

brío

· #110 · Oct 6, 2021

gregoryx said:
FWIW, I think the objective around here is to present our own experience and let everyone draw their own conclusions.

I seriously considered @Bazz99 reports of working great when installing ours; then I also considered his notes of it taking a few tries to start a few times. I weighed those things against my willingness to do the extra work and my skill, tools, etc between the two methods. I chose standpipe.

I think it would be perfectly understandable for someone else to come to a different conclusion. One doesn't even have to disconnect /anything/ to do the aux connection - let alone remove the tank. That might be a determining factor for some folks. And the risk that it takes a few tries to start might be worth it to them. 🤷‍♀️

Of course, knowing it was someone you PAID to do the install for you... that might piss me off a bit. 😠

I like the phrase, "you do you," but realized that it offends at times - often being read as sarcasm when I don't mean it that way. Both methods are acceptable on this.

I agree with all of that. It's just that it is kind of easy for a casual reader to come to the conclusion that the shortcut methods are "just as good", and I believe that the evidence suggests otherwise. I do admit that your post doesn't actually say that. I just hope people are reading carefully. I am perhaps overreacting due to my experience. It is less that the screwup was by a professional than the years' worth of pain and effort on my part that it took to track down an issue that should never have been there in the first place.

Reactions: 2

brío

· #111 · Oct 6, 2021

Getting back to constructive discussion:
Is it possible to replace the factory fuel pickup with the proper standpipe (understanding that this requires dropping the tank) and then using the BL4 extension? Or is the latter completely useless if I want to use the standpipe?

Reactions: 1

Bazz99

· #112 · Oct 6, 2021

It's all good, my goal this winter is to ski 150 days! So if it works every time I turn it on this winter I'll be a happy camper!
Good luck no matter what way you install your heater! We're all learning here so any input I consider helpful!

Bazz99

· #113 · Oct 6, 2021

You guys are killing me! I had less than a ¼ tank of gas, so I went to Costco and put in $50 bucks. Got home and started the heater, it definitely took a few minutes but it was pumping out heat like a champ once again! I live at 5K feet.

Reactions: 1

gregoryx

· #114 · Oct 6, 2021

brío said:
Getting back to constructive discussion:
Is it possible to replace the factory fuel pickup with the proper standpipe (understanding that this requires dropping the tank) and then using the BL4 extension? Or is the latter completely useless if I want to use the standpipe?

Not sure I understand which "extension" you mean. If you're referring to length of the standpipe, it comes longer than usable - it must be cut to fit in the tank. You choose how long to cut it based on how much "reserve" you want to have. I cut about 2.5" off mine - reasoning that looked like it would amount to 4 gallons or so in reserve on the 31-gallon tank.

brío

· #115 · Oct 6, 2021

gregoryx said:
Not sure I understand which "extension" you mean. If you're referring to length of the standpipe, it comes longer than usable - it must be cut to fit in the tank. You choose how long to cut it based on how much "reserve" you want to have. I cut about 2.5" off mine - reasoning that looked like it would amount to 4 gallons or so in reserve on the 31-gallon tank.

Sorry, cut-and-paste error.
I am asking about the usefulness of Option 63F -- Auxiliary Fuel Port Extension Line under the assumption that I am going to use the Espar standpipe rather than the Ford one. I.e., is there any value to paying $100 extra for 63F if I am going to drop my tank anyway?

gregoryx

· #116 · Oct 6, 2021

brío said:
Sorry, cut-and-paste error.
I am asking about the usefulness of Option 63F -- Auxiliary Fuel Port Extension Line under the assumption that I am going to use the Espar standpipe rather than the Ford one. I.e., is there any value to paying $100 extra for 63F if I am going to drop my tank anyway?

No. Don't need it in that case.

Reactions: 1

[email protected]

· #117 · Oct 10, 2021

I had the new Transit straw put in As I was having heater problems at elevation. Works at 6400’ but I haven’t been to 8000’ yet. Hoping to get out and give it a test soon. I wonder if the octane grade of gasoline makes a difference. I’ve been running ethanol free premium gasoline in the Transit. Maybe I should try a lower grade of fuel. Any thoughts on different grades of gasoline with the Espar ?.

RidingRoadsAndTrails

· #118 · Oct 14, 2021

I'm going to continue on this thread even though this is a bit of a tangent.

I have the Espar M2-B4L and live at 7200ft. I've had my heater installed for several months now but never ran it for more than 10 minutes or so just testing it and it always runs fine. Recently, it got cold out and I decided to run it to keep warm while working on the van. After running fine for about 25 minutes, the heater shuts down with these error codes:

P000129 (Flame cutout within the control range 75% – 100% )
P000342 (Invalid configuration, Check ADR coding).

This is repeatable and consistent, every time I try.

I found an Espar document called "Repair Instructions" and for the P000129 error it says to do a fuel quantity test to see how much fuel is being provided in 60 seconds. The document has a chart with min/max values. I ordered a graduated cylinder to perform this test. However, the document does not have any remediation steps should the quantity be too high or low. Anyway, once the cylinder shows up, I'll do this test.

Since it seems I may have a fuel problem, I inspected the fuel lines while the heater is running. I noticed there are air bubbles in the fuel line after the fuel metering pump but none before it. I found some references online that refer to tiny bubbles in the fuel line after the pump to be normal. I disconnected the fuel line on both ends of the pump and they look good. I trimmed some of the slack out of the line and reconnected with no change in behavior.

Here are a couple videos of the fuel line in action, unfortunately the video compression makes it a little tough to see:

0 new items by Ross Levin

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Also in the "Repair Instructions" document, I see this reference: "– For precise fuel measurement, at least 11 / 22 volt or maximum 13 / 26 volt should be applied to the control box during the measurement."

My electrical system is based on a lithium battery and the voltage generally sits between 13.5 and 14.1. Espar support has previously requested that I change my system from lithium to lead-acid for the heater when debugging another issue but I couldn't pin them down as to why this would be necessary. I don't have a 12v 20A power supply to test with, but I'm thinking a regulator stabilizer like the MaxxAir fans require might be useful if the heater is also sensitive to the higher voltage.

Unfortunately, I don't know if I am experiencing 1 or more than 1 problem right now.

I'd appreciate any input.

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andyl

· #119 · Oct 14, 2021

RidingRoadsAndTrails said:
I'd appreciate any input.

Can you do a test below 4000 feet elevation?

RidingRoadsAndTrails

· #120 · Oct 14, 2021

andyl said:
Can you do a test below 4000 feet elevation?

I was on the east coast a couple weeks ago before I knew I had the problem. I may be going back in a couple more weeks. If that trip happens, it will be interesting to see if there is a difference.

Reactions: 1

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