[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

I got some better videos this morning showing the cavitation in the fuel line after the fuel pump. They all seem to be roughly the same, regardless of the configuration.

Drawing fuel from the van fuel tank:

Drawing fuel from a gas can on the ground with 3' for fuel line:

Drawing fuel from a gas can 18" off the ground and 3' of fuel line:

View of the gas can setup:

I confirmed that no air is being drawn up from the gas can or fuel tank and no air on the supply side of the pump. All of these tests result in the P000129 code after 15-25 minutes.

I mentioned in my previous post that I would relocate the fuel pump upstream. Looking closer, there is not enough room to do so. The best I could do is to move it about 6". Being that I am well within spec for fuel line length, I doubt it would be worth the effort.

I feel like I am back to where I was with the fuel quantity tests in that any changes I make provide the same result. I've got this info out to Mike from Espar as well.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

I got an update from Mike and he asked that I remove the the fuel filter from the pump, remove the screen from the filter, reinstall the modified filter into the pump and then test the heater.

5 minutes after heater start, it looks like this:

15 minutes after heater start, it looks like this:

50 minutes after heater start, it looks like this:

2 hours and counting without an error is a long time for us, unless the outside temperature is under 25°F or it is very windy. Today is very windy, so there is no heat buildup under the van. Looking at the 5 minute video, that is the least bubbly the fuel line has been. The later videos have increased bubbles but perhaps not as much as yesterday's videos. However, due to the current wind condition, I'm not convinced that I'm out of the woods. Plus, running without an effective fuel filter doesn't seem like a good long term solution.

I'll update when I hear more from Mike.

I am going to throw a wild card. If the unit is pulling air into the fuel line it could be causing a lean running situation in the combustion chamber therefore causing the unit to overheat. If this is the case it will only get worse at altitude. The air leak isn't after the fuel pump or it would spray fuel out it is most likely sucking air in at the fitting going into the pump. Have you looked at that fitting?

I have not yet replaced the connector between the supply side line and the fuel pump to rule that out. I've had the fuel line connected & disconnected so many times running these tests and I've also purchased an additional fuel pump and the behavior doesn't change. So, I'm confident that the fitting on the pump itself fine, but the rubber hose connector has not been ruled out. I really doubt this would be the cause, but as a desperate someone who's been troubleshooting for months, I'll try anything to get this thing working. None of my local auto parts places has had the right size fuel line tubing to make another connector, which is why I had not replaced that yet. I'll see if I can find some on the 'net. I've actually been a little concerned that I may be weakening the connectors with so many connect/disconnect/reconnects.

Well that sucks. Isn't there a warranty you can use? At this point you have done more than your part to fix the problem.

Mike says that if he can't fix it, it can't be fixed. So, if we get through his bag of tricks without a resolution, I'll push for a replacement. When working with the support guys, they said warranty has to go through a service center. I don't know if Espar would cover the associated fees if I had to go that route. If it does get to that, hopefully Mike can shortcut it.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

For those of you with the working M2 B4L heater, what octane gas do you typically use? I use premium, which is usually 91. Mike is theorizing that the additional oxygen content of the premium gas might be giving me grief.

From the 2021 Transit owner's manual:

"Some fuel stations, particularly those in high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating below 87. The use of these fuels could result in engine damage that will not be covered by the vehicle warranty.

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. "

Also from the manual (EcoBoost):

"Required fuel. Minimum 87 octane"

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

This is making me rethink my heater and lean towards Webasto

While I am quite unhappy with my current situation, this is an anomaly. I had years of perfect service from my Espar D2. Lots of folks have had no issues at all. I believe the reasons I chose the Espar over Webasto are still valid. I'm confident that I'll eventually get through this and find that I made a stupid mistake somewhere.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

I need to talk with Mike. I'm having difficulties with my newly installed B4L and no one is responding to my help requests at Espar Technical Support. Can you pass along his contact information?
Thank you.

As I understand it, Espar has been hacked and lost their email system among other things. They set up this email as an alternative and have been responsive: [email protected]

I'm hesitant to share Mike's contact info without first exhausting what the support guys in Canada (Dave & Millson) can do for you. If they run out of tricks and don't send you to Mike, then I'd be open to sharing the contact info. I don't want to abuse Mike for being good at what he does.

Also, describe your issue here as there is a decent amount of knowledge among the members.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Another update:

- I picked up a new gas can and ran several heater tests with the fuel line pulling from the gas can with 87 octane gas...no change in behavior.
- I replaced the rubber hose connector between the supply side of the fuel pump and the supply fuel line in case there is a pinhole leak...no change in behavior.

Mike is going up the chain of command to see what they can do for me. I'll keep you posted.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Thanks for updating your progress! I have had mine installed since last year and have similar issues even sitting in my driveway at 5900ft let alone in the ski area parking lots (about 50% success at alt). Sometimes it can run for days and others I can't get it to even start. Haven't gone bacj and dropped the tank to install the standpipe yet though

Thanks!

On my first call with Mike and I explained the symptoms, he correctly guessed that I had a Transit and incorrectly guessed that I had used the OEM aux fuel tap instead of the standpipe.

In your case, I'd bet the standpipe will set you straight. Good luck!

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

SUCCESS!?!?!

I'm going to tentatively say that we've got this problem resolved. I just finished a 45 minute and 60 minute test with no errors in calm air, no wind. I'll test more in the coming days to either build confidence or determine that the problem still exists. I'll be at 10k ft tomorrow, that will be a good test too.

The short answer, keep your fuel pump as far away as possible from any heat source.

The latest episode:

• Mike had asked me to sleeve the heater-side fuel line with larger rubber fuel line to insulate it from heat. No change.
• I added some reflective fiberglass heat shield material over the tubing for more insulation. No change.

Mike is in town doing training with a number of local upfitters & service centers this week and he arranged for me to meet at one of the upfitters (AVCRig) and use my heater for training. This was doubly great since they are a Transit-only upfitter and are also a great group of guys.

Mike hooked up the EasyScan diagnostic tool and found no issue with the heater. His visual inspection raised no flags. He did the fuel quantity test both manually and with EasyScan and they came up within range.

When running the heater, Mike checked the temperature of the fuel pump and he thought it was warmer than it should be but not alarmingly so. It measured to 80°F. At this point, the training session was complete and I went home with directions to move the fuel pump. One of the AVCRig guys showed me how they tuck the fuel pumps right next to the fuel tank which allows for more airflow around the pump and not right under the van floor as I had done.

I got home and moved the fuel pump which also removed 15" of fuel line from the supply side and added it to the heater side. This got me a few additional minutes of runtime but still failed the same way.

Next, I shortened the exhaust to go straight down and out the side of the van, instead of going forward. This also removed 15" (about half) of exhaust pipe length. Now there is 21" of lateral distance between the fuel pump and the nearest bit of exhaust pipe where it had been as little as about 7".

With that, and minimal testing so far, I've gotten no errors on the last 2 tests. I'm wary but hopeful that this is the end of the saga.

Here is what the underside of the van looks like after these latest changes:

I plan to consolidate this whole saga with the helpful resources and post it to my blog within the next few weeks so no one else has to go through what I experienced over the past several months.

Thanks to all of you that had offered explanations, suggestions and moral support!

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

@simple Are you looking for troubleshooting help? Reach out directly, if you'd like my help.

I just spent 4+ months on & off troubleshooting mine and picked up a decent amount on knowledge on these heaters. Believe me, I understand the frustration. I'm sure some of my frustration spilled out in some of my posts in this thread as I was going through the process. I had a different problem than you but it was still fuel related. I've run mine just a smidge over 10k ft at Geneva Creek and just under 10k ft at the base of Copper Mountain with no problem. I haven't had the opportunity to run it any higher than that yet to confirm that I don't have the same problem as you lurking in the shadows.

If you are resigned to installing a second auxiliary heater, that's fine too, we all have our own set of priorities & constraints.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

4700' elevation. No fuel line leaks. The pump is as close and as high as I can get it. 2mm ID fuel line and pickup tube.
All good suggestions.

Do you have the fault codes?

The pump being too high was my problem as heat collected under the van aggravating the cavitation. Moving the pump to an area with more airflow cured me of my problems.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

I just posted a write-up consolidating my heater troubleshooting saga with info from Espar support, this forum and a couple other sources.

If you are interested, you can check it out here: Espar Heater Installation and Troubleshooting - RidingRoadsAndTrails

I'm open to feedback (negative or positive) on the write-up.

My heater starts first try every time and runs until I shut it off. I've tested it up to 11,000 feet in elevation (Juniper Pass) and have not had a single issue since moving the fuel pump to an area with better airflow.

Thanks again to all the folks on this forum for the help along the way!

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

So Mike says I should have 4x1.25mm fuel line (thats 4mm OD, 1.25mm wall thickness, 1.5mm ID) on the output side of the pump and 4x1mm (2mm ID) on the input side. Since it sounds like your heater runs perfectly, I'm wondering if that's your fuel line setup? The parts breakdown calls for 2mm ID all the way, but then Mike probably knows better.

I think I am having a temperature related issue but not like yours. When it's cold outside (20-35F) the heater fails to run. I run 3 start cycles. No joy. I start the van and warm the interior to 60-70F and the heater starts and runs fine. I have run this trial 4 times with same outcome every time. Same 12a and 128,129 codes. I suspect the combination heat sensor is bad or it's not making good thermal contact with the heater. Or the ECU is not programmed for the correct temp to keep running. But just had the ECU flashed in Canada. Mike says the temp sensors never go bad and it appears to be tight it the recess it sits in. I'm waiting on a new sensor.

I did have the benefit of my issue being consistent and easy to reproduce. Here is a pic of my fuel line, this is what came in my kit.

Mike told me that they only have 1 version of the firmware in Canada which is the M2 B4L, so if they flashed in Canada you can expect it to be the correct version for this heater. Only Germany has the other versions and they apparently won't release any other versions to Canada.

Have you done the diagnostics for the temperature sensors using the -XS2 connector wires on the EasyStart Pro wiring harness? My results were inconclusive, but I'm chalking it up to me being a spaz. It would be interesting to see if you get different results when the van is cold vs when the van is warm.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Did you use the same 4x1.25mm on the input as well?

Yes, my kit came with 1 long piece of fuel line, so that is what I have on both sides of the pump.

I suppose you could try to change out the heater side first to see if you get any improvement since the supply side will be a pain.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Got my fuel line and combination heat sensor from Esparparts. One small problem...they sent me 4x1mm which is not what I ordered. Sent several emails to both [email protected] and Mike with no joy so far. I phone ordered the fuel line with Ray and explained that was the size Mike recommended. I hope to get my heater working before summer.

That's a bummer. I did find Ray a little frustrating to deal with but in the end he made everything right for me, except for lost time and shipping costs. You do have to call him to get his attention, he did not respond to any of my emails.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

I got the correct fuel line from Heatso in 4 days and cheaper. Still no response from Esparparts. What are the chances of a refund, ha?

When all else fails, a credit card dispute is a wonderful tool that gets the attention of a vendor.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

@RidingRoadsAndTrails what is the name of the service center in Denver? I’d like to call them.

Thermo King is the authorized service center: Thermo King locations in Colorado

AVCRIG AVC RIG Home is in the process of becoming an authorized service center and is where I went to work with Mike on my issue.

Of the two, I'd I would start with AVCRIG.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Latest update.
Finally got the 1.5mmID fuel line (from HEATSO, had to put a hold on Esparparts payment for sending wrong size. Still no response from them.). Ran it from fuel pump to heater with extreme care to butt tube to tube and clamp securely. Tried to purge air from the new line, not possible to get all the air out it seems. Tried to run heater many times with same result, codes 128, or 129, and 12a. Put a 2mm ID fuel line on input side into fuel can and so far, same result. I get no bubbles on input side of pump and yet bubbles on output side. Tomorrow I will replace heat sensor because the data sent to the ECU that determines whether to continue running comes from the heat sensor. If it is faulty, it could cause a failure to complete the start cycle. I'm suspicious even tho Mike says "they never go bad". I'm running out of options and getting very frustrated with the whole ordeal.

I was hoping the new fuel line was going to get you going.

How long can you run the heater before it shuts down with the fault code? Is it consistent?

Can you post a video of the following:

• your fuel line to the pump
• the pump
• the fuel line between the pump and the heater
• your combustion exhaust run, especially in relation to the pump

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

The new pump had a larger size tube on the inlet so I thought a slightly larger fuel line would be appropriate (3mmID). So that's what I used when I put in the Espar dip tube. Seemed like a good idea at the time however Mike says it should be 2mmID. It's a BIG deal to change given the full set of skid plates but will bite the bullet if necessary. There are no, zero, none bubbles on the inlet side of the pump and a steady stream of bubbles on the outlet. The pump is obviously generating bubbles. The pump is very close to the fuel tank and it's just hard to believe that the 18" of inlet fuel line would make a difference.The pump is nowhere near exhaust or heat source. I just ran it for a couple hours and now I'll let it sit outside and see what happens in the morning when it's cold. I did replace the combo heat sensor and used a dab of thermal paste like you put on heat sinks on CPU's.

You may have the wrong version of the fuel pump if you have the larger inlet port.

The incorrect replacement pump I got from (and returned to) Esparparts is 22.4519.01.xxxx which had the larger inlet side and a different electrical connector than my original pump and harness has. Apparently this is the pump for the original B4 heater version.

I got the proper fuel pump from Heatso. The M2 B4L fuel pump is part number 22.4552.03.xxxx.

Your pump is mounted exactly how mine was when I was experiencing the my problem with the P000129. My thinking was that it is a nice protected area. The new location for the pump below the frame rail resolved my issue.

Our symptoms are not identical, so all this info may not be useful. Hopefully, your new sensor resolved this.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

But mine isn't near a heat source that would cause a heat bubble around the pump.

That is what I thought with mine, but the fuel pump is a heat source. Using a laser thermometer, I measured at the base of where the outlet port meets the pump body. When it reached 80°F, the bubbles caused by the cavitation would expand enough to cause my shutdown issue.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

The only thing left for me to do is change the fuel line from dip tube to pump.

To determine if airflow is an issue for your fuel pump, aim a leaf blower or fan at it and see if the behavior changes.