[brío]

Name 3 people who use their gasoline espar heaters regularly above 10k. I don't recall any, definitely not plenty.

Oh, come on...

Should I demand that you name three other people who have your problem with a demonstrably correctly-set-up system?

All I am saying is that there is no shortage on this list of people who report proper operation without high-altitude problems. I don't know how to ascertain "regularly".

I had plenty of issues with my Espar diesel, too. Then I determined and fixed the problem and it has been perfect ever since. I see little evidence that it won't be the same with petrol. These units are unforgiving, without doubt. That doesn't mean they don't work when properly deployed. Your experience counts, and I appreciate your reporting it. But is just one negative data point, and I have seen few others.

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

@simple Are you looking for troubleshooting help? Reach out directly, if you'd like my help.

I just spent 4+ months on & off troubleshooting mine and picked up a decent amount on knowledge on these heaters. Believe me, I understand the frustration. I'm sure some of my frustration spilled out in some of my posts in this thread as I was going through the process. I had a different problem than you but it was still fuel related. I've run mine just a smidge over 10k ft at Geneva Creek and just under 10k ft at the base of Copper Mountain with no problem. I haven't had the opportunity to run it any higher than that yet to confirm that I don't have the same problem as you lurking in the shadows.

If you are resigned to installing a second auxiliary heater, that's fine too, we all have our own set of priorities & constraints.

 

[simple]

Yeah let's meet up and compare. I'm helping teach an avalanche educational course at Berthoud Pass this weekend so I'll be headed that way from the west.

 

[harryn]

Not really. You want to hear my wife's constant complaining about how a several thousand dollar heater isn't reliable even after multiple attempts to problem solve? I doubt it.

Unfortunately I understand this concept very well.

Do you have a propane heater in mind that can run reliably from relatively low altitudes to over 10K ft?

 

[simple]

Unfortunately I understand this concept very well.

Do you have a propane heater in mind that can run reliably from relatively low altitudes to over 10K ft?

I've used Suburban furnaces before. Pretty standard in RVs. Since this is a fancy #vanlife rig I'll likely go propex. Catalytic cranks out great heat but the moisture is main issue to contend with.

 

[gregoryx]

Name 3 people who use their gasoline espar heaters regularly above 10k. I don't recall any, definitely not plenty.

I know at least dozen people who use diesel espar above 10k. In my regular group everyone is using propane. My last van had it as well.

Put us in both categories: over 10K regularly with diesel and now with gasoline / benzene (as Espar calls it).

Dunno about over... but pretty sure @Bazz99 gets 10K. I have a feeling there's others.

I'm as baffled by the problems reported as anything. I guess we got lucky?

 

[ArgonautVans]

I suspect there are hundreds of these heaters out there that are installed by professional van/rv outfitters that have no problems running at high altitudes. Companies learn how to set them up once and have a standard installation configuration that works, so you never hear from the owners in the forums about the troubles of installing or running them - because they don’t have any problems and they don’t go on these forums in general.

DIY creates a lot of room for improper installation, even for capable people. There is no substitute for experience.

 

[Dberdinka]

It would be curious to see if there's a correlation between heater problems and placement location. Instructions are fairly adamant regarding keeping the pump as close to if not on top of the fuel tank and minimizing both overall fuel line runs as well as intake/exhaust runs and bends. I placed mine in front of drivers side rear wheel well with a very short run to Ford aux port and a very short, straight exhaust line, and it starts up first try everytime. But I'm in the PNWet and roads rarely exceed 5000' elevation. Seems like the common passenger seat location rejects everything the Espar manual is recommending you to do.

 

[Xprmntl]

Name 3 people who use their gasoline espar heaters regularly above 10k. I don't recall any, definitely not plenty.

I know at least dozen people who use diesel espar above 10k. In my regular group everyone is using propane. My last van had it as well.

My experience:
I used my Espar successfully for two nights at 10,600 ft, at Echo Lake, CO. Temperature was in the 40's. Also a handful of times over 9000ft. I am drawing from the stock aux fuel port, not a secondary installed straw. Location is under the passenger seat, with straight hot air piping that exits through back of seat base (very close to floor level). Some do an tightly curved air duct routing to exit top, inside corner of seat base. Exhaust is piped to about 6-8 inches behind right front tire, which is not ideal when roads are snowy, so mounted the exit to point 45 deg back from tire to prevent as many icing problems. I am also using noise silencers on intake and exhaust.

 

[[email protected]]

I sympathize and feel everyone’s pain regarding the Espar m2B4L heater. Mine has been a total pain in the ass as well. Started out with a an improper install by the installer who ran the German wiring harness and the Heatso unit. Quit working after a couple times. I took it to Thermo King in Billings MT. (Never again) who were clueless on Gasoline Espar heaters. Told me to get a new fuel pump. 5 hours drive time and $240 down the drain. Took it back to installer to have interior finished and he never fixed heater but set up a call tag to have me take it out and send it to Espar. ( claimed heater worked fine originally and it’s Espar problem) 7 hour drive time and 5 weeks later and no working heater yet. Took Van to Thermo King in Missoula MT. ( awesome people) who looked at the install and informed me of the German heater and No warranty on it. They took a new heater and tested it with the installed harness and it worked but threw an error code about the mis matched German wiring harness. They would not warranty it with that harness. I said f…k it and replaced the whole unit with one that works and has warranty support. Another $2500 and 6 hours driving time and the heater works. I sent the original heater in and the ECU was bad and was replaced and returned to me. Anyone need a heater? Everything seems to work fine. Now I’m without heat at altitude. I returned to Thermo King (Missoula MT. ) Who dropped the gas tank and put in the Esparparts straw kit. $240 and 6 hours driving time and hopefully the heater works. I’ve only been to 7000’ and it took two tries but it worked. I’ll try at altitude later this spring. I bet I’ve got the most expensive Espar heater in Montana.

 

[gregoryx]

@[email protected], that's a whole other mess. Not a B4L-M2 initially, bad parts ordered and bad installs. Glad you got it done right eventually.

 

[EllieInTransit]

Here is my write up on the espar standpipe install. I live in Montana and am always at elevation with the van. These wont work for long at elevation without the correct standpipe. I am sure if you are doing a few days a year on ski trips it will be fine, but I cant imagine much beyond that.

Espar M2-B4L Transit Install: Standpipe Install &amp...

I need to re-res the miracle whip build thread, but seems like she used the aux port and a simple reducer to get to appropriate fuel line size before the heater. Seems like a good option. I believe that is the case. @Bazz99 helped her do it, IIRC, so same as his. There's a part-number /...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

 

[RQJoe]

Mine works fine……..

 

[simple]

My van must have heard me being a crab apple recently. Didn't run last night but all day running at Berthoud Pass today. Takes 5 times to start but once it is running we are happy.

 

[Chainman1]

My van must have heard me being a crab apple recently. Didn't run last night but all day running at Berthoud Pass today. Takes 5 times to start but once it is running we are happy.

You might try running the heater on kerosene, either as a temporary fix or a long range solution. Esparbaucher had me do that during troubleshooting and I considered adding a small tank to run the heater. Luckily, i got a replacement fuel pump and a new ECU with software V4 and my problems seem to be gone (under 10K). Kerosene won't cavitate like gasoline and the heater runs great with it as a fuel.

 

[NW_Freedom]

If I was going to run a heater with its own fuel tank I for sure wouldn't have bought a expensive Espar

 

[skTransit]

If interested in running on kerosene, check out "John McK 47" video Chinese Diesel Air Heaters Part 5 - Kerosene Use. Spoiler alert, the claim is that it is hard on the pump.

 

[Airweld]

Here is my write up on the espar standpipe install. I live in Montana and am always at elevation with the van. These wont work for long at elevation without the correct standpipe. I am sure if you are doing a few days a year on ski trips it will be fine, but I cant imagine much beyond that.

Espar M2-B4L Transit Install: Standpipe Install &amp...

I need to re-res the miracle whip build thread, but seems like she used the aux port and a simple reducer to get to appropriate fuel line size before the heater. Seems like a good option. I believe that is the case. @Bazz99 helped her do it, IIRC, so same as his. There's a part-number /...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Hello all, new user here.
This seems like a good place to seek help with my espar/transit issues. Being new here and to forums in general, don't hesitate to let me know if I'm not following procedures or should post this in a better place.
I got a 2018 Transit 250 van a couple months ago that had a heater installed but not working. Having installed a diesel espar before successfully I thought I could get it up and running. I mean it's not rocket science, right? Previous owner had taken it back to the original installer (Tiny Watts) and a espar service center with negative results.So, it came with the espar dip tube (uninstalled) and was told that it was the solution. So, dropped the skid plates and fuel tank, installed dip tube, replaced all fuel lines, connections, hose clamps, and fuel pump. Realized the ECU was needing re-flashed. Got it back, ran it for a couple hours in the shop. All good. Parked it outside, then next morning after it cooled down (35F) it wouldn't run. Started the van and warmed up interior to 70F and the heater ran fine. Next day, same thing. I have a heat sensor on the way from Heatso. So far when it runs, no air bubbles. I drove the van 5 miles, max 35mph, tried to start the (warm) heater, and no go. Looked underneath and to my surprise the fuel line is full of bubbles! I have no fuel leaking anywhere, all connections are new. How can that much air get into the fuel line that fast? Combustion intake and exhaust are pointed back so not forcing air into combustion tube, and fuel line. Any ideas? Driving me crazy.
PS. The heater has not worked properly since it was installed in 2018. Previous owner gave up.

 

[andyl]

How can that much air get into the fuel line that fast?

Could be a fuel-line leak, or could be fuel cavitation. Cavitation occurs more readily at high elevations. Gasoline cavitates more easily than diesel. If cavitation is a problem, you want to minimize the 'suction vacuum' pressure. Reduce suction vacuum by shortening the length of the pull-side fuel line (by possibly moving the metering pump closer to the tank) and/or by reducing the vertical lift on the pull side. The diameter of the fuel line sometimes causes problems. I think you want a fuel line with internal diameter of 2mm. Good luck!

 

[Airweld]

Could be a fuel-line leak, or could be fuel cavitation. Cavitation occurs more readily at high elevations. Gasoline cavitates more easily than diesel. If cavitation is a problem, you want to minimize the 'suction vacuum' pressure. Reduce suction vacuum by shortening the length of the pull-side fuel line (by possibly moving the metering pump closer to the tank) and/or by reducing the vertical lift on the pull side. The diameter of the fuel line sometimes causes problems. I think you want a fuel line with internal diameter of 2mm. Good luck!

4700' elevation. No fuel line leaks. The pump is as close and as high as I can get it. 2mm ID fuel line and pickup tube.
All good suggestions.