[Steamboater]

Another update:

• I picked up a new gas can and ran several heater tests with the fuel line pulling from the gas can with 87 octane gas...no change in behavior.
• I replaced the rubber hose connector between the supply side of the fuel pump and the supply fuel line in case there is a pinhole leak...no change in behavior.

Mike is going up the chain of command to see what they can do for me. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for updating your progress! I have had mine installed since last year and have similar issues even sitting in my driveway at 5900ft let alone in the ski area parking lots (about 50% success at alt). Sometimes it can run for days and others I can't get it to even start. Haven't gone bacj and dropped the tank to install the standpipe yet though

Thanks!

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

Thanks for updating your progress! I have had mine installed since last year and have similar issues even sitting in my driveway at 5900ft let alone in the ski area parking lots (about 50% success at alt). Sometimes it can run for days and others I can't get it to even start. Haven't gone bacj and dropped the tank to install the standpipe yet though

Thanks!

On my first call with Mike and I explained the symptoms, he correctly guessed that I had a Transit and incorrectly guessed that I had used the OEM aux fuel tap instead of the standpipe.

In your case, I'd bet the standpipe will set you straight. Good luck!

 

[Bazz99]

If it was me at this point I think I might buy the $150 knock off unit and install it and see if that works? If it does, I would request a new unit immediately!! Just a thought but good luck, I'd be going nuts on them by now!!

 

[RidingRoadsAndTrails]

SUCCESS!?!?!

I'm going to tentatively say that we've got this problem resolved. I just finished a 45 minute and 60 minute test with no errors in calm air, no wind. I'll test more in the coming days to either build confidence or determine that the problem still exists. I'll be at 10k ft tomorrow, that will be a good test too.

The short answer, keep your fuel pump as far away as possible from any heat source.

The latest episode:

• Mike had asked me to sleeve the heater-side fuel line with larger rubber fuel line to insulate it from heat. No change.
• I added some reflective fiberglass heat shield material over the tubing for more insulation. No change.

Mike is in town doing training with a number of local upfitters & service centers this week and he arranged for me to meet at one of the upfitters (AVCRig) and use my heater for training. This was doubly great since they are a Transit-only upfitter and are also a great group of guys.

Mike hooked up the EasyScan diagnostic tool and found no issue with the heater. His visual inspection raised no flags. He did the fuel quantity test both manually and with EasyScan and they came up within range.

When running the heater, Mike checked the temperature of the fuel pump and he thought it was warmer than it should be but not alarmingly so. It measured to 80°F. At this point, the training session was complete and I went home with directions to move the fuel pump. One of the AVCRig guys showed me how they tuck the fuel pumps right next to the fuel tank which allows for more airflow around the pump and not right under the van floor as I had done.

I got home and moved the fuel pump which also removed 15" of fuel line from the supply side and added it to the heater side. This got me a few additional minutes of runtime but still failed the same way.

Next, I shortened the exhaust to go straight down and out the side of the van, instead of going forward. This also removed 15" (about half) of exhaust pipe length. Now there is 21" of lateral distance between the fuel pump and the nearest bit of exhaust pipe where it had been as little as about 7".

With that, and minimal testing so far, I've gotten no errors on the last 2 tests. I'm wary but hopeful that this is the end of the saga.

Here is what the underside of the van looks like after these latest changes:

I plan to consolidate this whole saga with the helpful resources and post it to my blog within the next few weeks so no one else has to go through what I experienced over the past several months.

Thanks to all of you that had offered explanations, suggestions and moral support!

 

[gregoryx]

🤞 I hope that's a permanent fix!

Super impressed at how well Mike supported you in this - bringing you into the local shop is such a cool way to go about it. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[Captadv]

I plan to consolidate this whole saga with the helpful resources and post it to my blog within the next few weeks so no one else has to go through what I experienced over the past several months.

Thank you so much for doing that! It will be a huge help to everyone!

 

[simple]

Been getting around. Heater is working great below 10k. Around and above that it is not igniting. I smell fuel but cold air. I still hate this heater. Putting in a propane system this summer. Gasoline is a terrible heat source.

 

[RQJoe]

Feel better?

 

[simple]

Feel better?

Not really. You want to hear my wife's constant complaining about how a several thousand dollar heater isn't reliable even after multiple attempts to problem solve? I doubt it.

 

[Janus9]

For what these heaters cost, they really should work better.

 

[mototreks]

The short answer, keep your fuel pump as far away as possible from any heat source.

I was talking to Rixen and they have seen problems when using gasoline with higher ethanol percentages. Non-ethanol works without problems. Could the higher temperatures of the fuel pump vaporize the ethanol sooner causing bubbles in the line?

 

[brío]

Been getting around. Heater is working great below 10k. Around and above that it is not igniting. I smell fuel but cold air. I still hate this heater. Putting in a propane system this summer. Gasoline is a terrible heat source.

Do you have the proper Espar standpipe, or the default Ford one?

 

[RQJoe]

Not really. You want to hear my wife's constant complaining about how a several thousand dollar heater isn't reliable even after multiple attempts to problem solve? I doubt it.

I get it. U just need to vent. I guess we all do that at times. Go ahead, rant on. I’ll read it. Oh, i do have a solution too - stay below 10K. No joking, where the heck do you park and stay above 10K? i don’t know your setup, but do you use the skinny pipe as the previous poster asked? It makes a diff…….

 

[simple]

I have the proper pipe after first using the Ford aux. You'll see my posts well up in the thread. Not new to this. At this point I'm here to tell people in Colorado to not waste their time with a gasoline powered heater. Diesel or propane works much better.


Three places I've tried to camp in Colorado this week. Ophir, Red Mountain Pass, and Berthoud Pass are too high to camp or even hang out with the heater running. Yeah it is screwing with my normal routine. I camp more in the winter than I do the summer.

 

[brío]

I have the proper pipe after first using the Ford aux. You'll see my posts well up in the thread. Not new to this. At this point I'm here to tell people in Colorado to not waste their time with a gasoline powered heater. Diesel or propane works much better.

I asked because as far as I have seen, most reported altitude problems have involved the Ford tube. I had pretty much convinced myself that this was causal. There are certainly plenty of folks who report no problems @ 10K. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Dberdinka]

Outside of Colorado the high altitude problem is a nonissue (and the skiings better)

 

[njvagabond]

Outside of Colorado the high altitude problem is a nonissue (and the skiings better)

Like on the East Coast? (that's not ice, it's hardpack)

 

[gregoryx]

@simple, wondering if you should be looking into it as @RidingRoadsAndTrails did? Or is there some reason yours is definitely a no-go? Curious...

 

[simple]

@simple, wondering if you should be looking into it as @RidingRoadsAndTrails did? Or is there some reason yours is definitely a no-go? Curious...

As I put it to another question similar about a motorcycle I had that has known fueling issues...I will always try to fix something but after a certain period of time it isn't worth it anymore. I try not go down rabbit holes or spend hours with customer service on the phone or via email once it is clear the product is never going to work properly and consistently in all conditions (and can't be easily replaced) I buy something else and sell what doesn't work well for cheap and someone else can figure it out. I've got enough projects and problems to solve on a daily basis. Maybe when I'm retired I'll have that kind of time. It keeps my garage open for basic maintenance of all the stuff here.

As I've been dealing with this since day one we already have a second propane heater but it is small. This summer we will install a larger system so the Espar can be retired and used for camping lower than say 8k feet where it seems to work great minus the noisy burble at the exhaust.

 

[simple]

I asked because as far as I have seen, most reported altitude problems have involved the Ford tube. I had pretty much convinced myself that this was causal. There are certainly plenty of folks who report no problems @ 10K.

Name 3 people who use their gasoline espar heaters regularly above 10k. I don't recall any, definitely not plenty.

I know at least dozen people who use diesel espar above 10k. In my regular group everyone is using propane. My last van had it as well.