[gregoryx]

I'm having the same Espar M2 B4L heater problems at elevation. Works great below 5000', struggles at 7000' - spits and spudders a lot and barely runs, at 9000' it wont run at all. I'm Taking my Transit in to have the 2mm standpipe installed as per the Esparparts.com Tech. R. Lawrence suggests. Taking the van in next Thursday. Who knows.....I hope this helps.

Having just done the install, it's not nearly as bad as it might sound. I detailed it step-by-step in this post.

Haven't finished the install yet; but if all you need is the standpipe...

 

[gregoryx]

Agreed: it is supposed to be cut. Not sure bending is a good idea. 🤔

 

[gregoryx]

Im about to pull the trigger on a 2022. I have the Auxiliary fuel port extension line 63F currently in my order, but plan on putting the espar in my van. From reading this thread (and others), I would not even be able to use the auxillary fuel port extnsion line with the espar, correct? Ie, save my money and don't order this option?
thanks

Not correct. You /can/ use it. @Bazz99 has used it successfully with the B4L all last ski season at 9,000 feet. But he also reported it took a couple tries to start sometimes. But that it always worked.

Since we observed a similar "didn't start the first time" using a larger line on our Sprinter and didn't see this with the standpipe on the Transit, I'm suspecting they're related.

So you /can/ use the factory aux. But you might be better off installing the standpipe. And it's not /that/ much work, really.

 

[gregoryx]

True, last year I used my heater at least 100 times and I only had to start it more than once a few times.
The only other thing I did different than most installs is I didn't use the small hose that comes in the kit. It didn't make since to me too go from big hose to a small hose back to a big hose? I'm not sure of it mades a difference but I'd guess the more clamps you use the more opportunity for issues?
Here's the video I followed to a T on my install.

Interesting. There was no, "big hose," that I used. There were larger hoses designed to slip-fit completely over the tiny one - to be butted together with no "hose" between. Are you referring to those?

 

[gregoryx]

Well, you should do what you think best.
Maybe it will only fail a "few" times out of 100.
...

FWIW, I think the objective around here is to present our own experience and let everyone draw their own conclusions.

I seriously considered @Bazz99 reports of working great when installing ours; then I also considered his notes of it taking a few tries to start a few times. I weighed those things against my willingness to do the extra work and my skill, tools, etc between the two methods. I chose standpipe.

I think it would be perfectly understandable for someone else to come to a different conclusion. One doesn't even have to disconnect /anything/ to do the aux connection - let alone remove the tank. That might be a determining factor for some folks. And the risk that it takes a few tries to start might be worth it to them. 🤷‍♀️

Of course, knowing it was someone you PAID to do the install for you... that might piss me off a bit. 😠

I like the phrase, "you do you," but realized that it offends at times - often being read as sarcasm when I don't mean it that way. Both methods are acceptable on this.

 

[gregoryx]

Getting back to constructive discussion:
Is it possible to replace the factory fuel pickup with the proper standpipe (understanding that this requires dropping the tank) and then using the BL4 extension? Or is the latter completely useless if I want to use the standpipe?

Not sure I understand which "extension" you mean. If you're referring to length of the standpipe, it comes longer than usable - it must be cut to fit in the tank. You choose how long to cut it based on how much "reserve" you want to have. I cut about 2.5" off mine - reasoning that looked like it would amount to 4 gallons or so in reserve on the 31-gallon tank.

 

[gregoryx]

Sorry, cut-and-paste error.
I am asking about the usefulness of Option 63F -- Auxiliary Fuel Port Extension Line under the assumption that I am going to use the Espar standpipe rather than the Ford one. I.e., is there any value to paying $100 extra for 63F if I am going to drop my tank anyway?

No. Don't need it in that case.

 

[gregoryx]

@RidingRoadsAndTrails, if this ends up being a voltage issue, I'd be a bit surprised. I'm assuming most everyone else is driving theirs from a lithium setup as well and this hasn't been reported that I can recall.

In our case, we're regulated 12V since the batteries are 24V, so no input there.

FWIW, I got an error similar to that when we first fired up - something about the fuel supply and it had me worried that something was wrong. I disconnected the line and let the fuel pump spray out fuel at the pump, then again at the heater - confirming it was squirting all over the place - and reconnected them as best I could and it never came back.

 

[gregoryx]

...
Also, here is a website with Espar troubleshooting & background info that I haven't found before. It was worth it (for me anyway) to read through some of their pages. https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_fuel_1.html

Great find! So hard to find any useful info on these things...

 

[gregoryx]

Agreed with @brío analysis. I'd sure be wishing / hoping they'd get me a brand new unit. My guess is on the unit side, not the pump side.

 

[gregoryx]

The two I thought were: pump angle (addressed) and pump on source end not far end. Pulling air is hard. Pushing fuel is easier. Any self-priming pump I've used has specifics on this (as suggested above); but I take it as, "the least pull for priming, the better."

To be fair, though... you're primed... so... just thoughts. 🤷‍♀️

 

[gregoryx]

Good news on that update, @RidingRoadsAndTrails. Mostly great to have someone who seems to care and is determined to find a resolution. Maybe just moving the pump will make a big enough difference. 🤞

 

[gregoryx]

No expert data on this, of course... but part of why we spent the big bucks on the B4 this time was the 5-years of flawless, maintenance-free performance with our D2 in the Sprinter. I suspect there's a lot of nothing-to-say success with these.

 

[gregoryx]

87. Cheap stuff. Hard to believe that might matter... though I have also heard what @NW_Freedom refers to as true regarding altitudes. That would be fascinating if it makes a difference. 👀

 

[gregoryx]

This is making me rethink my heater and lean towards Webasto

Probably want to read a lot more threads - here and elsewhere - before letting this one seem like a typical experience.

There's at least two Webasto-vs-Espar threads around - both here? can't recall for sure - about why they chose Espar over Webasto. Not too many that go the other way - other than Webasto costs less.

 

[gregoryx]

My apologies for throwing the "Webasto" statement out there totally. It was off subject and inappropriate.

FWIW, I don't think an apology is in order. That's how human brains work: we see a report of something bad, we assume that is the standard. That's why we fear sharks over car-crashes and nuclear power over coal. It's just how we're wired. Probably best to voice it and see how everyone else reacts and - ideally - find more input and/or data to form a more rounded opinion. But that's not easy to do... so you're in good company with the rest of us humans.

 

[gregoryx]

🤞 I hope that's a permanent fix!

Super impressed at how well Mike supported you in this - bringing you into the local shop is such a cool way to go about it. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[gregoryx]

@simple, wondering if you should be looking into it as @RidingRoadsAndTrails did? Or is there some reason yours is definitely a no-go? Curious...

 

[gregoryx]

Name 3 people who use their gasoline espar heaters regularly above 10k. I don't recall any, definitely not plenty.

I know at least dozen people who use diesel espar above 10k. In my regular group everyone is using propane. My last van had it as well.

Put us in both categories: over 10K regularly with diesel and now with gasoline / benzene (as Espar calls it).

Dunno about over... but pretty sure @Bazz99 gets 10K. I have a feeling there's others.

I'm as baffled by the problems reported as anything. I guess we got lucky?

 

[gregoryx]

@[email protected], that's a whole other mess. Not a B4L-M2 initially, bad parts ordered and bad installs. Glad you got it done right eventually.