[TrevMetz]

Hey All! Long time listener.. first time poster. I've got a 2020 250 HighRoof, fully baked build from Paradigm Van Conversions in Littleton CO. I put a new Espar B4L in with assist from a friend.. he's a mechanical engineering PHD student and auto mechanic. This was his second install.

I too am having issues at altitude. Getting the "H1 Fuel Supply or Pump" error message. This past weekend I was at 8300 ft and it worked the first night and wouldn't the second night, but it did fire up in the morning after we froze our asses off all night When it fails it really grunts and groans for ~10 minutes and then shuts off. I try again once, twice, three times to no avail.

I have no dips in the exhaust and I'm using the Ford aux straw. I don't have any issues with it starting when I'm at home at 5,600 ft. which in my simplistic troubleshooting, points to an altitude issue. But 8,300 feet??? That's 2/3 of where Launcher said could be full vaporizing. At what altitude does gas start cavitating/vaporizing?

One thing to consider is that no matter what product or component you have, you are fighting against the physics of gasoline vapor pressure. What this means is that there is an altitude above which any and all pumps will ALWAYS vaporize the fuel making it impossible to run the heater - probably around 12,000 feet. This is what causes vapor lock. This aspect is due to the properties of gasoline and has nothing to do with Espar or any other heater. Some factors that affect this are: how much "head" is your pump pumping, where "head" is the vertical distance from the bottom of the standpipe to your pump. Other factors include the diameter of the standpipe, the number of 90 degree elbows, etc. In addition, "gasoline" itself is variable, and significant differences in vapor pressure can occur depending on the blend, even with certain standards. As an example, one solution for high altitude carbureted cars is to add 10% diesel, which has a lower vapor pressure than gas. Another solution used by auto makers has been to make the fuel pump a "sump pump", so that the pump itself is in the gas tank reducing the "head" to zero.

And thank you Launcher for your write up... very informative!!

 

[TrevMetz]

Hey All! Long time listener.. first time poster. I've got a 2020 250 HighRoof, fully baked build from Paradigm Van Conversions in Littleton CO. I put a new Espar B4L in with assist from a friend.. he's a mechanical engineering PHD student and auto mechanic. This was his second install.

I too am having issues at altitude. Getting the "H1 Fuel Supply or Pump" error message. This past weekend I was at 8300 ft and it worked the first night and wouldn't the second night, but it did fire up in the morning after we froze our asses off all night When it fails it really grunts and groans for ~10 minutes and then shuts off. I try again once, twice, three times to no avail.

I have no dips in the exhaust and I'm using the Ford aux straw. I don't have any issues with it starting when I'm at home at 5,600 ft. which in my simplistic troubleshooting, points to an altitude issue. But 8,300 feet??? That's 2/3 of where Launcher said could be full vaporizing. At what altitude does gas start cavitating/vaporizing?

One thing to consider is that no matter what product or component you have, you are fighting against the physics of gasoline vapor pressure. What this means is that there is an altitude above which any and all pumps will ALWAYS vaporize the fuel making it impossible to run the heater - probably around 12,000 feet. This is what causes vapor lock. This aspect is due to the properties of gasoline and has nothing to do with Espar or any other heater. Some factors that affect this are: how much "head" is your pump pumping, where "head" is the vertical distance from the bottom of the standpipe to your pump. Other factors include the diameter of the standpipe, the number of 90 degree elbows, etc. In addition, "gasoline" itself is variable, and significant differences in vapor pressure can occur depending on the blend, even with certain standards. As an example, one solution for high altitude carbureted cars is to add 10% diesel, which has a lower vapor pressure than gas. Another solution used by auto makers has been to make the fuel pump a "sump pump", so that the pump itself is in the gas tank reducing the "head" to zero.

And thank you Launcher for your write up... very informative!!

 

[TrevMetz]

I actually got my B4L from EsparParts and I did buy the Transit kit. Would have been great if it came with that new standpipe then I would have been one and done.. And it makes sense too... the larger Ford straw would be much more inclined to drain then the thinner aftermarket one from EsparParts. It's very possible I let my fuel level drop below 1/4 tank and just got a bunch of air. I'll gove them a ring

I think everyone who has problems needs to try this fuel standpipe. I’m 100% positive esparparts in Michigan knows what they’re doing, and if they identified that this is required on the transit (they sell transit kits) to fix problems, then it probably is required.

 

[TrevMetz]

ok thanks windword for the report. I called EsparParts and left a message and sent email. I'll call Ray direct.
Looks like the next obvious step is to put in a new standpipe.. not an easy fix when i've got a foot of snow under the van right now. I'll have to wait until I don't need the heater to fix the heater that doesn't work :0

 

[TrevMetz]

@windword highlighted it pretty well. I just received mine and it just threads in.

Hey curmudgeon! Checking in to see how your new standpipe install went and if its' helped with your altitude issues with your espar. And I'm still not clear how the new pipe installs. Does it thread into the existing aux tap or did you have to drill a new hole to thread it into?

 

[TrevMetz]

Hey All! I finally got around to swapping the pickup tube this past weekend. Here's some pics for anyone else needing some guidance. I also put it in the sending unit. Used a magnet to find the exact spot from the underside of the unit to know where to drill in the top. Worked like a charm.

One thing I'm happier about and slightly concerned is the straw is much longer than the aux tube. I actually had to bend the bottom of the straw so it could fit into the tank so it will run me almost dry if I let it. Positive side to that is I will have heat even when I'm down to below a quarter tank of gas which was a PITA last winter making sure I always had enough gas for heater to operate.

I haven't had a chance to test it at altitude and will once ski season rolls around but I have faith. Happy drilling!

Drilling...

You can see where and how it sits on the top...

 

[TrevMetz]

hey all! I'll update my install as well. after putting in the new espar standpipe I haven't had a single issue starting up at altitude. I've used it maybe 10 times at altitude (9k+) this winter and so far so good.

I did have a little issue where my pump wire touched the exhaust pipe from the heater (not the van's exhaust) and shorted out. That happened somehow after I had dropped the tank to put in the new standpipe. Real bitch to troubleshoot and I eventually gave up and took it to Thermo King. They fixed it pretty quick for a hefty sum. So be careful not to let that wire touch your exhaust $$$

And a note about the length of the standpipe... it's not a hard requirement to cut it. I just bent mine so it didn't touch the bottom of the tank. I'm not sure how far from the bottom it actually is, but it's [email protected] near touching. That's been awesome to have the heater work when I'm very low on fuel. I've had it running for days well below an 1/8 tank and it eventually stopped when the tank was showing 25 miles to empty.