[V37]

E15/B20 the New American Standard, coming November 2015 (via the EPA)

The politics of the fuels we use appear set,...15% Ethanol in gas, and 20% Bio in diesel.

The current Ford Transit should be fine for many years to come,...although the E15 may translate to 3/4 - 1.5 mpg less fuel economy for the eco-boost.

Sure glad I switched from the (B5) Sprinter van when I did,...those MB engines will be close to obsolete in 2 years,...but expect the new Sprinters coming in 2017, out of the new Charleston, South Carolina plant will be B20 engines. I do wonder if the coming substantial drop in pre-2016 Sprinter resale (due to growing unavailability of B5) will affect the Transit.

Corporate fleets change over every few years, but the individual Sprinter van owner will surely feel the pinch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkiYH5K5SgM

 

[V37]

Midwest America has been pushing for the standardizing of B20,...and Ford was listening.

"To spur biodiesel output, Illinois eliminated its 6.25 percent sales taxon fuel with at least 10 percent biodiesel."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/au...uels.html?_r=2
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[Marine06]

This is all political. I'm pretty sure on this forum most members realize ethanol takes more energy to produce than it saves, and at the same time uses huge amounts of farmland that could be put to better use. Same/same with biodiesel although I believe some of that may come from waste cooking oil? Not sure about that.

The whole thing makes me sick.

Rant over.

 

[EddieZ]

This is all political. I'm pretty sure on this forum most members realize ethanol takes more energy to produce than it saves, and at the same time uses huge amounts of farmland that could be put to better use. Same/same with biodiesel although I believe some of that may come from waste cooking oil? Not sure about that.

The whole thing makes me sick.

Rant over.

Every now and then there is a glimmer of hope that ethanol may not be around forever.

 

[todd92]

There is no mandated E15 coming any time soon.

 

[V37]

There is no mandated E15 coming any time soon.

I believe I read that the EPA sets new rules in November 2015. Besides that being the date mandated to set the new rules, it is probably good to get past it before the political season gears up.

I agree that manufacturing ethanol from midwest corn/soybean fields is among the stupidest things the American government has backed. The net energy loss is staggering.

Soybean: 40 to 50 US gal/acre
Algae: 10,000 to 20,000 US gal/acre

And the sea doesn't get depleted like a soyfield does.

Anyway,...the purpose I had in mind for this thread was more about how E15 and B20 will affect the current large van market.

Overall, I feel lucky that I got out of a long term investment with MB Sprinter, which uses B5 diesel. Putting out $55K for a computer simulated 4x4 with a dwindling B5 availability would not have been pretty.

In my view the B20 diesel will be going strong for another ten years. Nevertheless, I ordered an eco-boost. Perhaps in 5-6 years I could get a fuel cell retrofit. And with the game changing supercapacitor battery on the near horizon,...2020 could be a quantum leap from where we are today.

Personally, I don't envision getting another van,...I just want enough time before I have to get a new powerplant.

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Biodiesel non-compatibility is not exclusive to Mercedes. Over 50% of the diesel engines on the road today are not suppose to run over B5. B20 rated engines have a lot of the same problems as B5 engines. Biodiesel attracts water, grows bacteria, plugs fuel filters, gets 12% less mpg, reduces horse power, causes injector coking, and has a short tank life. Spot checks have shown that 15% of biodiesel is starting to go sour before you even put it in your tank. It would be wise to avoid biodiesel even if your engine is B20 compatible. The EPA is showing signs of backing off renewable fuels mandates.

 

[orton]

Biodiesel non-compatibility is not exclusive to Mercedes. Over 50% of the diesel engines on the road today are not suppose to run over B5. B20 rated engines have a lot of the same problems as B5 engines. Biodiesel attracts water, grows bacteria, plugs fuel filters, gets 12% less mpg, reduces horse power, causes injector coking, and has a short tank life. Spot checks have shown that 15% of biodiesel is starting to go sour before you even put it in your tank. It would be wise to avoid biodiesel even if your engine is B20 compatible. The EPA is showing signs of backing off renewable fuels mandates.

Simple solution: Buy gas ebgine and do not worry about it.

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Simple solution: Buy gas ebgine and do not worry about it.

Nice to see you haven't lost your smart ass attitude Dave. There are problems with ethanol also.

 

[orton]

Nice to see you haven't lost your smart ass attitude Dave. There are problems with ethanol also.

Sorry if I offended your pro diesel agenda. It was just a suggestion that I thought solved the issue.

 

[V37]

Sorry if I offended your pro diesel agenda. It was just a suggestion that I thought solved the issue.

It solved the issue for me,...and looking at it as pure luck that I got out of the Sprinter B5 fuel limitation when I did.

I'm satisfied with my decision (3.5L),...however, if I was ordering today, I might go with the Ford B20 diesel,...mostly for the additional towing capacity.

 

[PeterR]

Nice to see you haven't lost your smart ass attitude Dave. There are problems with ethanol also.

Not sure who else saw orton's comment as "smart ass" other than you, but I certainly did not. As he just said +/-, it seemed to deal with the issue in a short and sweet manner.

 

[bobojay]

Not sure who else saw orton's comment as "smart ass" other than you, but I certainly did not. As he just said +/-, it seemed to deal with the issue in a short and sweet manner.

I'm with PeterR.....


To the OP, Mercedes has backed down from their absolutely nothing more than B5 lately. They are slowly allowing wording into their no-no's that allow the higher rates with more frequent oil level checks and changes.
Obviously they've had to do this to be able to keep selling their diesels in the USA, which is now their largest single market

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Originally I was responding to some incorrect info saying all diesel would be 20% bio later this year. I then listed some of the bad points about bio. Orton said to cure those problems, buy a gas. That's a smart ass answer. Ethanol has many of the same problems. Bob o jay, it's funny you agree with Orton since you've posted on other sites that sprinters can run b20 with out problems. I was interested in a transit diesel but there is very little diesel talk on this forum. When ever someone makes a diesel post, Orton responds with his mega list of negative diesel problems, then several of his like mined buddies will chime in, agreeing with him. As a result, there is almost no positive talk on this forum about the transit diesel.

 

[bobojay]

Not much diesel talk on here because not that many have been sold yet, and the ones that have been sold aren't having the issues in any numbers that the PM and Sprinter diesels have had.

Or at least we are not hearing about them.

Had a short talk with the service manager at the biggest fleet Ford dealer here last Thursday. He said they aren't seeing them, (diesel CEL's), either. The only issue they are seeing on their new Transits with any frequency is the water in air filter deal. He said the ones they get in now have that issue fixed.

 

[orton]

Originally I was responding to some incorrect info saying all diesel would be 20% bio later this year. I then listed some of the bad points about bio. Orton said to cure those problems, buy a gas. That's a smart ass answer. Ethanol has many of the same problems. Bob o jay, it's funny you agree with Orton since you've posted on other sites that sprinters can run b20 with out problems. I was interested in a transit diesel but there is very little diesel talk on this forum. When ever someone makes a diesel post, Orton responds with his mega list of negative diesel problems, then several of his like mined buddies will chime in, agreeing with him. As a result, there is almost no positive talk on this forum about the transit diesel.

Do not know why you get so upset when a suggestion is made that is one method of addressing the problem. Unfortunately there are numerous reasons why a diesel should be evaluated carefully. There are positives and negatives to either gas or diesel. The trick is to purchase the correct vehicle configuration that matches your expected use. If a person is driving many miles/year on the highway then the added mpg a diesel gets may offset the higher initial cost and higher scheduled maintenance costs of a diesel. If a person drives 10,000/year then it is much more difficult to justify the decision financially. There will always be people that just simply want a diesel and could care less if it makes any sense financially. The economic decision can change rather quickly with the change in relative cost of diesel to gas cost/gallon. Last November diesel cost about $.40/gallon more than gas. I just returned from the Sprinterfest in Oregon and saw diesel as much as $.50/gallon less than gas. So the payback calculation changes with fuel cost changes.

One of the major reasons for my purchasing the gas Transit was to get rid of diesel. It was a much smarter decision in November than it would be today due to the change in fuel pricing. For my use gas is a much more logical fuel for my application. I did ask myself if the price of fuel was important to me. It is not. The convenience and reliability of gas is more important. As an example my scheduled maintenance cost with the Sprinter was around $250-$300 each time. I just took Transit in for the 5000 mile service and it cost $21.00. They wanted to put in semi-synthetic oil and I wanted full synthetic so I bought 6 quarts of Mobile 1 oil from Costco and supplied the oil.

Diesel makes sense for some applications. Gas makes sense for others. Neither is a slam dunk decision. Buy what fits your requirements or that satisfies your preconceived opinion. It is your money and you are entitled to spend it as you wish.

Do not get upset because someone else has a different opinion. That is what makes a forum interesting.

 

[V37]

As a result, there is almost no positive talk on this forum about the transit diesel.

I thought that this thread was positive for the Ford's 3.2L Transit diesel,...in that this Ford engine is designed for B20,...a fuel grade that should be readily available for many years,...and the old standard of B5, which many States are actively pushing out.

Today's diesel fuel reminds me of when there was not yet a standardized HD DVD format. But now it seems pretty clear that B20 will prevail in the US market.

IMO,...Ford's offer of 2 gas engines and a B20 diesel helps to further define the Transit as the safest, most reliable van for North American investment.

Currently, my only gripe about the Transit is the lack of recreational/camper/off-road assessories

 

[PeterR]

Well said orton.

(Edit -- Previous PS deleted)

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Do any of you guys know of a web site where you can get information, and post about the transit diesel without all the negative comments from people who don't care for diesels?

 

[PeterR]

Do any of you guys know of a web site where you can get information, and post about the transit diesel without all the negative comments from people who don't care for diesels?

First of all you ended up in a thread that is open to criticism of both gas and diesel engines. Why not start your own thread and ask up front that people focus on the strengths of the diesel? Or any other requests you have . . .

Stand by for possible venue: (on a mobile device = slow posting)

Here you go, just click on "Post New Thread" at the top left, give it a title, and write the first post with suggested guidelines:

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/ford-transit-general-discussion/

Warning, be careful spelling the thread title, as I don't think you can correct typos later. Good luck!