Ford Transit USA Forum banner

Drove Ram, Transit and Sprinter - my thoughts

46K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  sportcoupe 
#1 ·
Sorry for the upcoming novel. My first post here and I need some info from Transit owners.

I currently own a 2013 Mercedes 3500 dually extended Sprinter and am looking for a 2nd van for our business. So the last few weeks I've driven 3 Ford Transits, a Ram Promaster diesel and a 2015 Sprinter 3500 170 dually.

First off, I need to make the point about the price difference between competing vans of the type I'm looking for. It's not really a factor. I need the tall roof and longest version I can get that has a capacity of around 9500 pounds fully loaded. In this class all 3 are pretty close in price. In fact the other day I drove the 3500 sprinter with a 9990 GVWR and a Dually Transit with a 10360 GVWR. The difference in price is about $1000 between the two with the Sprinter being the higher. But, the discounted prices I was quoted were almost identical, maybe a $100 between them, with the Sprinter being the cheaper of the two.

My usage: This will be loaded down to near capacity almost 100% of its usage, and it will be taken on an 11k mile 2 month trip around the US once a year, and lots of 300 to 1000 mile trips the rest of the year. So I need something that gets at least as good of mileage as my current van, and enough power and torque for this type of usage. This is why I'm thinking diesel is my best choice.

I liked the drive of all of them, with the exception of the way the transmission shifted on the diesel Ram. It emulates a standard transmission with slow manual type shifts between gears. And the position of the steering wheel was not ideal, as the distance to the pedals were out of whack with the comfortable steering wheel position - for me. The weird transmission shifting with the diesel was better when I stepped on it, but driving it with a regular foot on the accelerator was weird and makes me think you could potentially get in trouble if you have to get out of a dangerous situation immediately while waiting for the van to shift slowly between gears. That didn't give me too much confidence so I narrowed my choices to the Transit and Sprinter.

The Transit I first drove was a 3.5 EcoBoost and it surprised me with power, but I think this engine might be better suited for shorter drives and not fully weighted down as far as mpgs are concerned. Then I drove a diesel passenger van because it was all they had in San Jose at the time. It was a great driving machine, but it had very little power on the freeway. I tried stepping on it to simulate passing while going 65 mph and it sped up very gradually even when I floored it. Then I finally found the exact match for the vehicle I would buy in Newark CA and drove that last week. A 350 tall roof dually cargo van with the diesel 3.2 engine. It drove like a car but again it dogged on the freeway when stepping on it. And this is an empty van. What happens when I put 3500 pounds in it?

The Sprinter, in comparison is the same engine as my Sprinter, the V6, and it took off when I stepped on it. It also was rock solid on the freeway, as is my Sprinter, empty or fully weighed down. Plus it has the new wind avoidance system, which may or may not work perfectly, but is of interest for anyone that has driven across the country with a tall roof van on a very windy day. Regardless, the dual back wheels definitely make it more stable than single wheel tall vans. I know because my first van 3 years ago was a 2500 170 tall roof Sprinter and it moved around in the wind much more than the dually. More white knuckle drives in high winds.

And as far as mileage is concerned, my 11k GVRW extended high roof Sprinter fully maxed out in weight got an average 16.4 mpg across the country this Spring in all kinds of different weather and winds over the course of 2 straight months. It was driven at speed limits or 5 mph over, which means it was being driven between 65 and 80 depending on the highway limits across the country. This is calculated by hand after each fillup, not using the display as those are rarely correct. Empty, I have gotten as much as 21 mpg btw.

So I need to know if the Transit diesel gets peppier when it breaks in or if this is just the way it reacts. Plus it seems that the few mileage reports I've seen here and at another site so far have the Ford 3.2 getting less mpgs than my Sprinter even when their Transits are not fully loaded to capacity.

I'm not a Sprinter fanboy, but I need some more reports from actual users, which I haven't found too many yet online, before I put down my $44k to $48k. Please help if you have experience with your Diesel (or even 3.5 Eco Boost) Transit at full GVRW. I'm about a week or 2 away from buying this second van and I want to give the Ford the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard with so few being reported on and no long term reports yet in hand. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I've been following the forum here since January 2014 and ordered a long wheelbase tall roof extended body 3.5 Ecoboost in August to replace my V6 NCV3 170" Sprinter.
So far nobody has reported any ownership of that combination, so aside from test drives no real life info. Mine has been built for over a month but still not assigned to a rail car for delivery. There are sub-forums here on the diesel and 3.5 real world mpg in various configurations, and I believe one of the diesel owners has the extended body tall roof Transit.
 
#3 ·
Interesting read, thanks for posting your thoughts and experiences.

As noted in my signature, I'm still looking at the different vans, and keeping an open mind. My preference seems to vary from week to week (currently thinking Sprinter again).

I like the Promaster, but want more options and goodies in the cabin, not so much a gussied up work truck. For the Transit I would want the extended body, but that's only available in the high roof, and that is SO tall (and has one helluva overhang past the rear axle). Still have a soft spot for the Sprinter, as that's where my cargo van wanderlust started, but am hesitant at the potential costs (purchase and service). *sigh*
 
#5 ·
I feel your pain Zyzzyx, as it can be tough to figure out all the pluses and minuses of each brand, engine, transmission, service costs, reliability, etc.


For my part I have had 2 Sprinter vans in 3 years. A 2011 2500 170 and my current 2013 3500 extended 170. I have only about 21000 miles on this new one and had only about 20k on the first one before I traded it in, so I don't have a lot of experience with overpriced service appointments as the vans get up in years. On my 2500 I drove it twice around the US, once well loaded past it's 8550 capacity (didn't know that at the time), and once towing a trailer. That worked fine, but I hated the trailer solution so I wanted a bigger van with more weight capacity which is why I went with the 3500 11k version. Now I'm outgrowing that and looking to a 2 van solution. So here I am trying to get knowledgeable on the newest big vans.


Must say, I have had excellent service at my local dealer in San Jose, CA. And I became friendly with most of the folks in the service department and they have taken care of giving me great prices for service whenever I needed anything other than warranty work.


Because we travel across the country every year I think a Ford might be an advantage, but it doesn't help me if it potentially won't perform as well as my Sprinter does in power, mpg, and reliability. But the jury is out on that as far as all my research has taken me. I don't want to take a step backwards and so far I have had no issues with both Sprinters, though they both have/had low miles.


I can say that if you read enough Forums for any product it can make you a bit paranoid about the product as you need to take each problem a person has with a grain of salt many times. You don't know these folks, or how they may use or abuse their van. And most auto forums are built for the proud new owners announcing their new purchase, and people that have complaints or problems. So the usually overwhelming amount of owners that have good luck with a product most times don't post at all, giving one the impression it's all crap. You just have to be a smart consumer nowadays online, with how far you get influenced by forum posts. For me, I try to go with my gut, after doing the due diligence, been informed as much as I reasonably can.


Good luck with your purchase, and hopefully I'll know a bit more about these new Transits before I make my decision. That's the advantage of the Sprinters - lots of them out there, they definitely hold their value if you try finding a great deal on a used one (not many out there for a cheap price), and most have many hundreds of thousands of miles on their engines.


As an aside, I spend 3 months a year in Europe and the UK, and travel in a Sprinter over there as well. They are truly as commonplace as you can imagine - they are everywhere and by far the defacto van on the road in that size and class. Lots of Ford Transits as well, but obviously not this same one we have now in the US.


There I go running on again... :eek:


Cheers
 
#6 ·
Did you consider driving the Sprinter 4cyl w/7spd. Reports on them are low to mid 20's loaded up, but with less umph at highway speeds. A bit slower going onto on ramps too.

You probably don't realize this but the Promaster diesel can be manually shifted also for faster response. You just tap the shifter while slightly letting off the gas pedal. There's a guy over on the Promaster forum with a long & tall 2500 diesel getting mid 20's pulling a trailer loaded to have a combined weight of 8900 lbs.

You've been very lucky with your Sprinter experience with service. Both of the dealers here in the Kansas City area are just so-so. We're on our second one in RV guise and it's our last. Too much hassle & cost getting service on the road, if you can find one close by without going 200+ miles out of your way.

One thing about the Transit is all the drivetrain parts, except diesel engine, are the same as the F150 pickup, so parts and service are everywhere and available. The diesel engine uses the same oil, air and oil filters as the gas engines. The fuel filter is about $45.00 and easy to change, while the fuel filter on the V6 Sprinter is over $110.00, with a $200.00 labor charge to change it every 20k. The Transit & Promaster for that matter, is also good to go with up to B20 biodiesel vs Sprinter no more than B5.

Good luck with your choice...
 
#7 ·
Did you consider driving the Sprinter 4cyl w/7spd. Reports on them are low to mid 20's loaded up, but with less umph at highway speeds. A bit slower going onto on ramps too.

.....cut......
It seems to me that he's looking for more power than the Transit's diesel, not less. And also that he's very pleased with the Sprinters. Overall his is quite an endorsement of the Sprinter, with superior rating over ProMaster and Transit.

Objective testing shows that newer vehicles don't get significantly faster or stronger with initial break in. So if he's looking for Transit to get more powerful or get better MPGs, what are the odds that's going to happen?

If I were that happy with 2 Sprinters I don't see why I wouldn't buy a third.
 
#8 ·
bobojay, thanks for that info on the Ram. Unfortunately I am concerned about the fact that they don't have dually models in their lineup. I can't imagine how one of these vans can be rated for almost 10k pounds with single tires in the back. Plus it's been my experience that dually vans are more stable on the highway and handle much better in high winds. That, along with the fact that we have 2 to 3 drivers switching off, and I'm not sure I want to rely on having to inform guys on how to shift.

Still holding out some hope that maybe the diesel Transit somehow is peppier than my two drives with them. I'm probably destined go drive one again, but I am not sure how that will change anything that I've noticed so far. Also still slightly considering a 3.5 Eco Boost, even though my intuition tells me this may not be a good choice for decent mpgs in a fully loaded van.
 
#13 ·
it's been my experience that dually vans are more stable on the highway and handle much better in high winds.

Still holding out some hope that maybe the diesel Transit somehow is peppier than my two drives with them.... Also still slightly considering a 3.5 Eco Boost, even though my intuition tells me this may not be a good choice for decent mpgs in a fully loaded van.
The trouble with the Transit diesel is power to weight ratio:
Vehicle Transit- LWB HR EL DRW - 10,360 GVWR

3.2 diesel 190 horsepower = 54 hp/lb (same/tata nano)
unladen 6,014 lbs = 31 hp/lb (same/toyota prius)

3.5 EcoB 320 horsepower = 32 hp/lb (same/toyota prius)
unladen 5,650 lbs = 17 hp/lb (same/ 2007 VW GTI) amazing, no?

The acceleration will never improve with that diesel's low power to weight ratio. Don't try to pass a Prius going up a hill.

One reason I bought a Transit is because of always wanting a Sprinter. The Promaster felt smaller and its face is...? I have also never had a long term reliable Dodge product. Since my income depends on reliability, the Transit made the most sense.

White knuckle's at 3,000 feet on Wed. Driving in 45 mph crosswinds with my MR, LW was controllable. Never pushed me out of my lane. Definitely had my attention. I think you have a point about DRW.
 
#9 ·
When it comes to Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for Single Rear Wheel vans, Sprinters lag the rest in US. In Europe and other markets they have Super Single (larger single rear wheels and tires) models, but they are not offered in US.

The single wheel ProMaster has GVWR up to 9350 pounds, and the Transit up to 9500 pounds. Because the PM is lighter due to FWD, the SRW model can haul more. The SRW Mercedes Sprinter is well below 9000 pounds.

Not having dual rear wheels doesn't inherently limit payload. The Ford Super Duty SRW F-350 is rated at up to 11,500 pounds GVWR. Ford accomplishes this rating by using a rear axle above 7000 pounds. I'm certain Ford could have made a heavier duty SRW Transit if they thought there was a large-enough market.

I won't be surprised when someone offers an aftermarket SRW conversion for DRW Transits. I had DRWs on an E-350 Class C and hated them.
 
#10 ·
Interesting info Chance. You may have hated DRW on a truck, but I guarantee you wouldn't feel the same about it with a high roof long wheelbase cargo van. Quite a different beast on the highway, when the wind and passing big rigs can blow you around like a big sail. It's definitely white knuckle time when you have strong side winds hitting you at gusts of 40 to 50 mph at times. Not fun driving so you want the most stable situation you can get.


I'm committed to a Dual Rear Wheel van since I've tried both on long drives around the whole of the US a few times, and will continue to do that type of driving. That leaves out the RAM, although it may be a bit more stable than a SRW Sprinter because it sits a little lower because of the FWD.


Problem is that I will be loading a standard cargo van down with an extra bench seat, a heavy duty partition, 3 to 4 grown men, and about 3000 pounds of gear and luggage on long drives, so I need the van to offer a good load rating and largest sizing available. That limits my choices to the Transit and the Sprinter at this time.


And as for the 4 Cyl Sprinter, I asked 2 longtime Sprinter dealers about this and they both recommended I stay away from it if I load the van down to capacity more than 25% of the time. I do - so the 6 Cyl is my best bet in a Sprinter, unless I use it strictly as a passenger van then I definitely would be interested in that.
 
#15 ·
Interesting info Chance. You may have hated DRW on a truck, but I guarantee you wouldn't feel the same about it with a high roof long wheelbase cargo van. Quite a different beast on the highway, when the wind and passing big rigs can blow you around like a big sail. It's definitely white knuckle time when you have strong side winds hitting you at gusts of 40 to 50 mph at times. Not fun driving so you want the most stable situation you can get.


I'm committed to a Dual Rear Wheel van since I've tried both on long drives around the whole of the US a few times, and will continue to do that type of driving. That leaves out the RAM, although it may be a bit more stable than a SRW Sprinter because it sits a little lower because of the FWD.


Problem is that I will be loading a standard cargo van down with an extra bench seat, a heavy duty partition, 3 to 4 grown men, and about 3000 pounds of gear and luggage on long drives, so I need the van to offer a good load rating and largest sizing available. That limits my choices to the Transit and the Sprinter at this time.


.....cut........
I personally think that the effect of crosswinds involves a lot more than DRW versus SRW. My van-based DRW camper got blown around far worse than any van I've driven. And the same also goes for DRW van-based campers I've rented since then. But what can I expect from an 11-ft tall box going down the road? Also as important, if not more, is that these campers had a very long rear overhang, particularly in proportion to their wheelbase.

Another problem with DRW vans like Sprinter and Transit is that rear leaf springs have to sit closer to van's centerline in order to clear tires. This doesn't help prevent body roll when cross winds hit a tall van from side.

Like you I'm looking at all three vans but I can wait if needed. The Ford is too narrow and I don't like long rear overhang, but Ford has stated more versions would be coming in future. How long who knows?

The Sprinter has bad reputation for costly repairs and dealer network is limited.

The ProMaster seems best otherwise but I don't like either transmission (diesel or gas).

As to load capacity it's interesting to me that smaller ProMasters are rated to carry nearly as much or more. The DRW Transit has higher GVWR but also weighs a lot more empty. For my needs either can handle load, but I expect PM to ride much smoother. Everything I've read suggest DRW camper vans ride harsh in rear.
 
#11 ·
sotagear, just a suggestion on the 4 cyl. Friends have a class C RV Sprinter that's a constant 9800-10k lbs that are happy with it. They confirmed the slower on entrance ramps, less power on mountains. This is their 3rd Sprinter RV and they have said they won't go back to the V6. They also praise the 7 spd trans that comes with the 4 cyl. MB needs to put that 7 spd behind the V6. BADLY!

I believe you've talked yourself into a Sprinter, you just don't realize that yet. And yes, for your use, the Promaster would not be a good choice in my opinion
 
#12 ·
Thanks bobojay, that's definitely food for a reconsideration on the Sprinter 4cyl engine. I have heard good stuff about it overall and especially the 7 speed transmission. I'll do some more research into that. I did see a few online that advertise a V6 and a 7 speed trans, but I think if I follow up on those they will likely be misprints.


And yes, it does appear that I've talked myself into another Sprinter :s, but still waiting to be certain if one of Ford's engines may work well in my situation or not. It's very difficult to know for certain about the 3.5 EcoBoost's mpg or the diesel's abilities given there seems so little online by folks that weigh down their vans to near capacity. There are lots of Ford Transits in Europe with stories but they use different engines. Almost every post I see about these engines with regards to US Transit vans are either empty, 2 people, or half loaded vans. That doesn't tell me enough because I know how much more mileage and power I can get out of my van nearly empty vs a full load. Mileage alone is a different animal.
 
#22 ·
I thought he sold the Transit already!
 
#27 ·
Wow! My '08 V-6 Sprinter seemed expensive to maintain at a .8 hour labor charge for the fuel filter even when I supplied the part from Europarts. The Blu tech engine upped the labor and filter to $300????
 
#28 ·
Part of the reason for the high price on the new one is the water sensor etc is permanently installed in the new filters. There's not much aftermarket availability yet on this new style. That doesn't help either.
I was on the road when we reached 20k miles, so rather than wait another 3 or 4k miles, I went ahead and had the excellent dealer in Boerne, TX change it along with the oil. I had bought a new filter early on at our local Freightliner Sprinter dealer for $107.00+ tax. Freightliner seems to have the oil and parts a bit cheaper if you're buying OEM.

By the way, if you didn't know it, there's a new spec oil out for the V6 and 4 for that matter, 0w-30, 229.52. It's backwards compatible
 
#29 ·
As Orton points out there are many costs involved in operating a diesel other than the expensive fuel. When my Sprinter was totaled a year ago I was ready to replace it with a new one and started spec'ing it out. Along the way I looked at Promaster and started thinking about Transit. I'm pretty sure I made the right decision based on economics and convenience in going with the high extended 3.5/3.31 Transit instead, but I'm guessing my 80 mph Interstate cruising won't be as smooth and controlled as it was in the 170" NCV3.
 
#32 ·
The MB clamps were the easy part for my indie mechanic since he had the tool and worked with them all the time. He just couldn't
believe how difficult the access was (at least on my '08) and felt bad about how long the process took. He billed me .8 hr. But said it really took him a full hour. He was used to the diesel sedans and T1N Sprinters.
 
#34 ·
Sorry for the upcoming novel. My first post here and I need some info from Transit owners.

I currently own a 2013 Mercedes 3500 dually extended Sprinter and am looking for a 2nd van for our business. So the last few weeks I've driven 3 Ford Transits, a Ram Promaster diesel and a 2015 Sprinter 3500 170 dually.

First off, I need to make the point about the price difference between competing vans of the type I'm looking for. It's not really a factor. I need the tall roof and longest version I can get that has a capacity of around 9500 pounds fully loaded. In this class all 3 are pretty close in price. In fact the other day I drove the 3500 sprinter with a 9990 GVWR and a Dually Transit with a 10360 GVWR. The difference in price is about $1000 between the two with the Sprinter being the higher. But, the discounted prices I was quoted were almost identical, maybe a $100 between them, with the Sprinter being the cheaper of the two.

My usage: This will be loaded down to near capacity almost 100% of its usage, and it will be taken on an 11k mile 2 month trip around the US once a year, and lots of 300 to 1000 mile trips the rest of the year. So I need something that gets at least as good of mileage as my current van, and enough power and torque for this type of usage. This is why I'm thinking diesel is my best choice.

I liked the drive of all of them, with the exception of the way the transmission shifted on the diesel Ram. It emulates a standard transmission with slow manual type shifts between gears. And the position of the steering wheel was not ideal, as the distance to the pedals were out of whack with the comfortable steering wheel position - for me. The weird transmission shifting with the diesel was better when I stepped on it, but driving it with a regular foot on the accelerator was weird and makes me think you could potentially get in trouble if you have to get out of a dangerous situation immediately while waiting for the van to shift slowly between gears. That didn't give me too much confidence so I narrowed my choices to the Transit and Sprinter.

The Transit I first drove was a 3.5 EcoBoost and it surprised me with power, but I think this engine might be better suited for shorter drives and not fully weighted down as far as mpgs are concerned. Then I drove a diesel passenger van because it was all they had in San Jose at the time. It was a great driving machine, but it had very little power on the freeway. I tried stepping on it to simulate passing while going 65 mph and it sped up very gradually even when I floored it. Then I finally found the exact match for the vehicle I would buy in Newark CA and drove that last week. A 350 tall roof dually cargo van with the diesel 3.2 engine. It drove like a car but again it dogged on the freeway when stepping on it. And this is an empty van. What happens when I put 3500 pounds in it?

The Sprinter, in comparison is the same engine as my Sprinter, the V6, and it took off when I stepped on it. It also was rock solid on the freeway, as is my Sprinter, empty or fully weighed down. Plus it has the new wind avoidance system, which may or may not work perfectly, but is of interest for anyone that has driven across the country with a tall roof van on a very windy day. Regardless, the dual back wheels definitely make it more stable than single wheel tall vans. I know because my first van 3 years ago was a 2500 170 tall roof Sprinter and it moved around in the wind much more than the dually. More white knuckle drives in high winds.

And as far as mileage is concerned, my 11k GVRW extended high roof Sprinter fully maxed out in weight got an average 16.4 mpg across the country this Spring in all kinds of different weather and winds over the course of 2 straight months. It was driven at speed limits or 5 mph over, which means it was being driven between 65 and 80 depending on the highway limits across the country. This is calculated by hand after each fillup, not using the display as those are rarely correct. Empty, I have gotten as much as 21 mpg btw.

So I need to know if the Transit diesel gets peppier when it breaks in or if this is just the way it reacts. Plus it seems that the few mileage reports I've seen here and at another site so far have the Ford 3.2 getting less mpgs than my Sprinter even when their Transits are not fully loaded to capacity.

I'm not a Sprinter fanboy, but I need some more reports from actual users, which I haven't found too many yet online, before I put down my $44k to $48k. Please help if you have experience with your Diesel (or even 3.5 Eco Boost) Transit at full GVRW. I'm about a week or 2 away from buying this second van and I want to give the Ford the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard with so few being reported on and no long term reports yet in hand. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
I had a Forester RV on the Transit chassis with the 3.2 and it was great - got up to 22 or so mpg and never below 19. Also this diesel will accept 20% bio which is a big plus over the Sprinter when you are in the Midwest where bio is so "popular/political". My Sprinters [3] with the 3.0 never matched the MPG of the heavier Forester. The "sprinter guys" on their forum all seem to be diesel mechanics/engineers and were always posting about the monitors for the tranny performance, etc and I'm not into that stuff. I still regret trading in the little Forester for a E450 but I did get double and more living space but MPGs dropped to 9. Spending the summer in the Rockies will be more comfortable in the 450 though with a toad or new transit for short overnight trips. One final note the Sprinters are rated to tow 5K vs the Forester at only 2/3K which may help some people.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top