[s4s]

The purpose of this thread it to compare MY costs for diesel VS gas, which might get interesting.

3.5 Ecoboost:
-$0,000 (baseline)
-$325 Cruise Control
-$555 Dual Battery + alternator
-$2,000 Gasoline Furnace
=$2,880

3.2 Puma Diesel
-$4,130 Motor
-$0,000 Cruise Control
-$0,000 Dual Batteries
-$250 Alternator
-$1,000 Diesel Furnace
=$5,380

So, for me, the diesel would end up being a $2500 premium over the equivalent gasser. Maybe only $2250 if the diesel setup comes with the high amp alternator (I had to guess on the $250 figure, everything else is from the ford site)

On a good year (should plan for more of those, eh?) I drive 60,000 miles. In my area, we've had a pretty consistent 30-50 cent difference in fuel costs, so lets split the difference and call it $3.60 for gas and $4.00 for diesel.

GAS 16 MPG:
60,000 miles is:
$600 - 12 oil changes x $50
$13,500 - 3,750 gallons gasoline x $3.60

DIESEL 20 MPG:
60,000 miles is:
$600 - 4 oil/fuel filter changes x $150
$12,000 - 3000 gallons diesel x $4.00
$0 - DEF delete via plug in tuner >

Diesel Savings : $1,500 / year
or
2.5 cents per mile
or
$2,500 exactly over 100K Warranty Period

Dead even. It would pay for itself by the time the warranty ran out.

--------------------

One reason I'm looking to get OUT of my Sprinter is to get behind a more reliable/serviceable powerplant. The 3.5 ecoboost is proven, and wins out over the untested US model PUMA.

2 turbos VS 1 turbo - Twice to go wrong, but likely a much more fair price considering the number of F150's on the road. A diesel turbo will HAVE to come from another Transit. Used parts will be harder to source. Rebuilt parts will hold a premium. A draw?

Resale value: IF at two years/100K warranty period I decide the Puma doesn't meet my expectations for the future, I would almost certainly recoup OVER my original $2500 investment selling a "low mile" 100K diesel VS a 100K gasser.

Point is, for me, give a little here, take a little there, it looks pretty even.

Decisions decisions.

 

[s4s]

One other consideration will be drive quality. This is one of the first vehicles I've seen where the gas model beats the diesel in horsepower AND torque. I usually prefer a diesel in my vehicles, but the gasser may just have more pep? It will also be quieter.

Quality gas is also easier to find than quality diesel.

I suspect there will be 100,000+ of these things on the road by the time I'm buying, so keeping up with a years+ worth of user reports on these forums plus my own test drives will answer these questions.

Cheers.

 

[s4s]

Some diesel benefits:

Greater range per tank of fuel.

Motor weighs 130 pounds more. I'm getting the extended wheelbase model and will have a 400 pound motorcycle/carrier hanging off of the hitch for 100% of those 60,000 miles per year. People, myself included, were worrying about the extended model being a little floaty in the front end when towing. The extra weight would only help.

 

[mogulman]

You have the MPG at 25% better for diesel. You should get around that for highway miles but for city miles it could be as low as 10% better. You really need to specify highway miles versus city miles. I developed an Excel 2010 addin that does all that for you.

http://tinyurl.com/AFVCalc

 

[s4s]

I'm just basing it off "my" average. My dually T1N Sprinter gets 19.7 MPG the way I drive it (85% highway, if I had to estimate) This is a running average, calculated manually, over a lottttt of miles.

I think the Ford diesel would match that.

I've read about 3.5L F150s getting 15 mpg during mixed driving. If that's an honest assessment, even averaging 16 in the big van may be.... optimistic.

Thanks for sharing. I'll check it out when I'm on a computer with excel!

 

[rbisch]

If propane is available in your area, you should add that alternative to your comparison"s.

Spot Prices for Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/ford-transit-general-discussion/1609-propane.html

 

[Longboard]

If the Ecoboost is going to get 16 MPG @70mph highway cruising I'm sold.
My prediction is for the tall extended loaded up with people or stuff @75mph highway
cruising 12-13 mpg. With the diesel I'm figuring 19-20 mpg.at that speed.
Just a guess, based on my old E-150 V8 conversion van and my '08 Tall 170" Sprinter.
My experience with tall vans has shown that aerodynamic drag really kicks in above 65mph.

 

[mogulman]

If propane is available in your area, you should add that alternative to your comparison"s.

Spot Prices for Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/ford-transit-general-discussion/1609-propane.html

I plan to make a web version and add Propane, hydrogen and a second CNG (for home fueling). Right now you can fake it out by making CNG propane. In the Small Car doc I made diesel CNG home fueling.

 

[orton]

If the Ecoboost is going to get 16 MPG @70mph highway cruising I'm sold.
My prediction is for the tall extended loaded up with people or stuff @75mph highway
cruising 12-13 mpg. With the diesel I'm figuring 19-20 mpg.at that speed.
Just a guess, based on my old E-150 V8 conversion van and my '08 Tall 170" Sprinter.
My experience with tall vans has shown that aerodynamic drag really kicks in above 65mph.

3.7 has zero turbo's, lowest purchase price, and highest gas mileage of the two gas engines. Disadvantage is lower acceleration. I do not need to go fast in a big metal box.

When you add in all the extra costs related to a diesel it is hard to justify. Include higher maintenance, DEF cost, higher initial cost, fuel filter changes and larger quantity of more expensive engine oil. A person that drives for a over 40,000 miles/year may be able to justify it depending on the gas vs. diesel fuel costs/gallon. When we have some real world mpg figures for the gas and diesel engines, a more accurate cost comparison can be made.

For me, I want the simplest engine available which is the 3.7.

 

[JAD]

I too would prefer the 3.7 for the reasons that Orton specifies. And because it can be prepped for CNG-propane.

I plan on the small wheelbase, med roof for a camper van with aftermarket 4WD.
I don't plan anything crazy with 4WD. It is just so I can take many of the roads out west without worry.

My question. Would the 3.7 be adequate to pull a loaded camper van? I'll have no unusual weight additions and I won't be towing anything. I'm thinking it should be okay, but I'm not an engine guy.

 

[Longboard]

Will the 3.7 get better mpg at highway speeds than the Eco?
And it's not available in the tall extended, right?

 

[JAD]

According the Ford website the 3.7 is available with the tall extended version.
Not sure about mpg highway. My limited research suggests maybe 1-2 mpg better with the 3.7.

 

[rbisch]

I plan to make a web version and add Propane, hydrogen and a second CNG (for home fueling). Right now you can fake it out by making CNG propane. In the Small Car doc I made diesel CNG home fueling.

You should not confuse by assuming propane is similar to CNG. They are as different as gas and diesel.

Cost to convert is less with propane. Range or distance of travel is far greater with propane. Filling stations are far more numerous. Tanks take up less space and duel conversion allows you to run equally well on both propane and regular gas, essentially doubling the distance you can travel before you have to take on fuel.

 

[VanMan]

It's good to see the 3.7L getting some respect, I buying a 3.5L ecoboost for many other reasons but the 3.7L is the main engine.

VanMan

 

[mogulman]

You should not confuse by assuming propane is similar to CNG. They are as different as gas and diesel.

Cost to convert is less with propane. Range or distance of travel is far greater with propane. Filling stations are far more numerous. Tanks take up less space and duel conversion allows you to run equally well on both propane and regular gas, essentially doubling the distance you can travel before you have to take on fuel.

This is a cost estimation addin. It makes no assumption tank size, stations etc...The addin allows you to set prices for different fuels, MPGs highway/city, miles/year, insurance, maintenance, cost, financing...etc.

 

[s4s]

I want a dually, so the 3.7 isn't an available option. That means no propane. This would be a great option for others!

I have a hard time believing the ecoboost will get equal gas mileage in this application than the F150, and I've heard F150 owners saying they don't get close to the EPA estimates in the first place. If you can expect 15 mpg in the pickup, that "12-13 mpg" figure longboard estimated may be more accurate...

I'll be moderately loaded at all times, cruising around 70 MPH (again, same driving habits I have now that yield just shy of 20 in my sprinter) If the split is more like 20 diesel/14 ecoboost, the savings would be $5700 per 100K, more than enough to pay for the odd diesel repair. That would be $3400 in my pocket every year.

If a 20/14 split proved true, over 5 years/300K engine life, my savings would be $17,000. Assuming the diesel isn't a dud and goes that far without major repairs, that leaves $14,500 in savings to pay for the odd diesel-only repair, hopefully with a good chunk of money left over afterwards.

As excited as I was about ditching the modern diesels, the more I think about it, the more I lean that way. Even if this thing is another Powerstroke 6.0, I don't see over $14K+ in repairs after the warranty period is up.

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Doesn't sound like ford expects there diesel to be a large seller, 15%. Same with promaster. VW TDI sales are over 30% diesel, of course Sprinter is 100% diesel. 1 out of 3 Winnebagos sold is on a Sprinter diesel chassis. Even if the diesel engine doesn't save you a dime, it's a better tool for the job. People order 10 to 20 thousand dollars worth of options that save them nothing but when it comes to the diesel people won't spend the extra money unless the diesel saves them a bunch. Do you think all these Sprinters would get 4 or 5 hundred thousand miles with a gas engine? They wouldn't even come close.

 

[orton]

Lets say a diesel lasts 500,000 miles. Say gas engine lasts 250,000 miles.

A new diesel engine costs $ 10,000. A new gas engine costs $ 5,000.

2 x 5,000 = 1 x 10,000. Where is the savings? Not from replacement engines cost.

 

[s4s]

One thing to remember is Ford has a huge market share... They'll be selling 100,000+ Transits per year... at 15%, that's 15,000+ diesel sales per year. Sprinter only sells 20,000 per year, total. Sounds like a large enough seller to me, especially if they're planning on integrating this motor into future Ford products.

Along the same lines, another thing people are talking about is aftermarket accessories for the Transit... That is one thing I am NOT worried about. Sprinters suck for aftermarket! Who wants to deal with all the R&D making cool stuff for a vehicle with 20,000 sales per year, when mayyyybe 1% of those customers will be spending money $$$ on cool extras? Hard to design, manufacture, and make money on something NICE when only 200 people are going to buy it. Multiply that by 5 and then we're talking. If you build it, they will come

 

[rabbitdiesel1]

Your looking for reasons not to buy the diesel. Just don't buy it. The ecoboost gets rotten mileage, costs 1800$ extra and won't run any where near as many miles and yet no one brings this up when comparing the gas vs the diesel. Most Americans just don't like diesels period.