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Discussion Starter #1
I was going through the order form, it shows 3.7 engine S, meaning standard all models. Then it says not available T350 DRW. So it's standard all light duty models not available on the heavy models. It then shows the 3.5 ecoboost as optional on all the van models. On the chassis cab and cutaway there is a line like this - in the ecoboost column meaning not available. It shows the diesel optional on all models but says not available T150. The only engine shown for the chassis cab and cutaway is the diesel. Does this mean diesel engine only for chassis cab and cutaway or am I mixed up? Lynn
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Looking at the order form again, the 3.7 is standard on light duty chassis cab and cutaway. The diesel looks like the only engine available on the heavier chassis cab and cutaway.

Lynn
 

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Do your homework on the cost savings with a diesel. For 15,000 miles/year the operational cost difference is around $100-$200/year. Is the complexity of the diesel worth the savings? See my post under pricing. One of my primary reasons for selling my diesel Sprinter and buying a Transit is to get rid of the diesel.
 

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Do your homework on the cost savings with a diesel. For 15,000 miles/year the operational cost difference is around $100-$200/year. Is the complexity of the diesel worth the savings? See my post under pricing. One of my primary reasons for selling my diesel Sprinter and buying a Transit is to get rid of the diesel.
Good point, the savings are minimal. You can save that much coin but cutting back on how much coffee you drink daily.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The order form says diesel not available t150 8 and 10 passenger. I take it it's available on all other models.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I sold my 06 WBG View with 178,000 mi. It Avg. 17.25, I checked every fill. I used 10,318 gal of diesel. 3.30 per gal = 34,049$. My only other option was a ford V10 which would only get half the mpg if that. At 8.6 mpg it would use 20,697 gal. 3.00 per gal = 62,091$. That's a fuel savings of 28,042$. That's a lot of money, more than enough to cover the 500$ in fuel filters I used. I had no engine problems and had no problems selling it because diesels hold there resale value better than gas. My 2011 WBO View only avg. 15mpg and diesel is .60 cents more but difference will decrease in summer. 8$ every 5000 miles for DEF, non issue. There are better mpg gas engines coming so that will narrow the savings. Don't blame the high price of Mercedes service on the diesel engine.

Lynn
 

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You need to compare diesel to gas on similar vehicles. Comparing to a large gas guzzler will always show how wonderful the diesel is. All I am saying is to do your homework without bias one way or the other to determine if there is any savings for diesel based on your miles/year and the current price difference between diesel and gas. Include all the costs. I think you will find that the savings is minimal at todays costs. If you are in love with a diesel then do not bother calculating, just buy what you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Orton, you are correct. My 06 Sprinter saved me a lot but as truck manufactures get away from V8 and V10 guzzlers the operating cost between gas and diesel become much closer. I think gas prices will become closer to diesel on avg. These new higher mpg gas engines will also have a higher price tag. Diesel emissions have become complex but I think solutions are on the way. My V6 Sprinter has 75,000 mi with no emission problems. I'm interested in the Transit Diesel cutaway chassis because Mercedes Sprinter service is scarce in the Midwest.

Lynn
 

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They were. The problem is making diesels clean burning and fuel efficient makes them more complex and more prone to failures than gasoline engines.
The 20-33% premium for diesel fuel over regular unleaded partially wipes out the cost of use savings that were expected, while the fuel filters, cost of large quantities of special oil (13.6 quarts/$12.99 per quart from Dodge dealer) along with unexpected code throwing takes care of the rest. Unless you need the torque the advantages of reliability, fuel economy, and longevity have disappeared.
Source: I owned a Sprinter from '08 until this past January.
I haven't ruled out a '14 Sprinter as a replacement and if so I'll be dealing with even more issues unique to modern diesels, but I'm holding out to see how the Transit turns out. If I go back to Ford it will NOT be the Power Stroke diesel given the choice of the two gasoline engines available.
 

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I think gas prices will become closer to diesel on avg.

Lynn


Why? I'm seeing the opposite occurring, with some stations charging $3.00 for regular unleaded yet $4.29 for diesel! Since '08 I've noticed a continued trend towards larger price discrepencies partially due to world diesel demand for industrial use.
 

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i always thought diesel cars were less complicated.
That used to be true before the federal government forced the redesign to add all their mandated emission hardware. Now the diesel is more complicated than a gas engine. I have a Sprinter diesel and will probably buy a Ford Transit with the non-turbo 3.7 V6. The 3.7 will not have the following stuff:

Diesel exhaust fluid injection and associated system. (DEF)
Turbo and associated system
Diesel particulate filter (DPF)
Swirl valves
Glow plugs
Fuel filter
Inability to idle the engine
 

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Discussion Starter #14
When it comes to class c motorhomes a v6 gas won't cut it. A small diesel is the only way to go. The only other choice is the ford V10 or Chevy 6.0 V8. The small diesel will save you a lot of money on fuel costs and resale value compared to these engines, not to mention its ability to run many more miles than a gas. Maybe an economical, powerful, long life gas engine is on the horizon but, it's not here yet. If your buying just the regular van then the V6 gas might be a competitive choice.

Lynn

Lynn
 

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It's just the lone 5 cylinder diesel on the option sheet right? I was kind of half expecting ford to make use of one of their powerstroke HD diesels in the heavier duty transits, but maybe the 5 cyl is enough?
 

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When it comes to class c motorhomes a v6 gas won't cut it. A small diesel is the only way to go. The only other choice is the ford V10 or Chevy 6.0 V8. The small diesel will save you a lot of money on fuel costs and resale value compared to these engines, not to mention its ability to run many more miles than a gas. Maybe an economical, powerful, long life gas engine is on the horizon but, it's not here yet. If your buying just the regular van then the V6 gas might be a competitive choice.

Lynn

Lynn
Depends on your application. I agree the V6 gas is not appropriate for a 12,000 lb class C. IMO a small 3.0 Or 3.2 Liter diesel is also marginal. For my use a 3.7 Liter non turbo V6 would work. 5200 Lb van plus 1800 lbs of DIY conversion. I currently have a 3 liter Sprinter diesel pulling 7300 lbs GVW . Not a rocket but adequate. 3.7 V6 has a bit less torque but that is somewhat offset by a 6 Speed auto instead of the Sprinter 5 speed.
The 3.7 Non turbo uses the same block as the 3.5 twin turbo ecoboost so it should have a long life. The cost of a replacement gas engine is considerably less than a diesel replacement. So if a gas engine lasts have as long as a diesel but its replacement cost is half that of a diesel then that is a wash.
 

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Depends on your application. I agree the V6 gas is not appropriate for a 12,000 lb class C. IMO a small 3.0 Or 3.2 Liter diesel is also marginal. For my use a 3.7 Liter non turbo V6 would work. .....cut.......
Why do you feel a gasoline V6 won't be appropriate for a 12,000 pound Class C? Are you concerned about inadequate power? Torque? Durability?

I'm curious only because Ford uses the 6.8L V-10 engine in the F-53 RV chassis (used on Class As) with GVWR up to 26,000 pounds. And that engine is rated at only 362 HP and 457 pound-feet of torque.

If we scaled to half, we'd end up with 13,000 pound GVWR, 3.4L 5-cylinder, about 181 HP, and about 229 pound-feet of torque. Obviously 26,000 pound RVs with only 362 HP are slow, but they are "appropriate" for many buyers. If so, why not a unit half that weight with much greater power-to-weight ratio?

I think what is appropriate comes down to our performance expectations. I personally don't need a RV to accelerate or climb like a car. Not if it comes at a significant MPG penalty.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It's not that a V6 doesn't have enough power, it doesn't get any better mpg than a V8 when pulling a heavy load. A pickup with a V6 running empty will get 21 or 22 mpg. Hook a 5000 lb trailer behind it and your back down to 10 mpg. I always thought the 4.3 chevy V6 would work well in a small motorhome.

Lynn
 

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Why do you feel a gasoline V6 won't be appropriate for a 12,000 pound Class C? Are you concerned about inadequate power? Torque? Durability?

I'm curious only because Ford uses the 6.8L V-10 engine in the F-53 RV chassis (used on Class As) with GVWR up to 26,000 pounds. And that engine is rated at only 362 HP and 457 pound-feet of torque.

If we scaled to half, we'd end up with 13,000 pound GVWR, 3.4L 5-cylinder, about 181 HP, and about 229 pound-feet of torque. Obviously 26,000 pound RVs with only 362 HP are slow, but they are "appropriate" for many buyers. If so, why not a unit half that weight with much greater power-to-weight ratio?

I think what is appropriate comes down to our performance expectations. I personally don't need a RV to accelerate or climb like a car. Not if it comes at a significant MPG penalty.
Depends on how responsive you want the vehicle to be, I am old enough to have owned a 24 HP Crosley, 28 HP Fiat 600 and a 36 HP VW. They all got me where I wanted to go but not quickly.
 

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28 HP in that Fiat 600 but i bet it was fun!
plus it's a small car so there's just far less weight to deal with.
 
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