[Kjwhal]

Hi all,

my 2022 w/ eco boost came from the factory with two alternators. I’m having one removed and replaced with a dedicated high output, and my loose understanding is the electronics of the van need to be updated so it knows it’s only working with one alternator not two.
My local dealership won’t do this even if I understand I’m voiding the warranty, and I can call a few more

I’m hoping you all can answer one or more questions

• what precisely am I asking for in terms of modification
• can this be done with Forscan (and how?)
• does anyone know who in the San Diego area would do this for $

 

[Michael Ophus]

No one has ever asked this question before, You are probably on your own.

 

[ArgonautVans]

If you could get the as-built data in Forscan from another 2022 transit that has all the same options but a single alternator, you could probably re-program yours with their files.

simple on paper but in practice probably very difficult still

I just decided to be happy with the ~175-200A of juice I can get out of the alternators with SEIC and third party high power mode

 

[harryn]

I remember when this dual alternator option was being initially offered.

At that time, Ford did not provide a pathway to remove alternator 2 and make things work.

What made the offering especially interesting at that time was that it was very challenging to find an after market alternator that could even fit on the ecoboost engine. It is still one of the lower cost ways to obtain fairly high output under hot conditions at a relatively low cost.

I get it though why you want to have a different alternator, especially if #2 is a different voltage.

If your plan is to keep alternator #2 as 12 volt, then it might not be worth the effort.

 

[gregoryx]

No one has ever asked this question before, You are probably on your own.

Worse still: I think it's been asked a couple times - along with the ideas that it'll be simple to swap out #2 for a 48V or whatever. But def hasn't been anyone coming back saying it worked.

So if you figured it out, @Kjwhal, be sure to let everyone know!

As you probably know, there are a couple folks who have already done 48V alternators or at least high-output 12V units. But I don't think any of them started with the duals.

To @ArgonautVans point: maybe try the 2kW output (or as high as ~2.5kW) from the system to see if it will meet your needs first?

We have use-cases that drain as much as 4kWh in 24 hours and that's only 2-3 hours of engine-run (even idling with the dual-alternator setup) to restore that power. By most reports, we're one of the higher-draw folks here and it's working pretty well.

 

[Janus9]

Disconnect the factory second alternator and see what happens. If you get error codes, I would just squeeze out what I could with the factory duals and call it a day.

 

[Kjwhal]

Hey all, thank you!

• getting the as built from someone did occur to me, but I don’t know someone
• nations offers mounting brackets and alternators now so it’s more common.
• was/am intending to go 48v
• will start with the disconnect approach

general thoughts. Speculation, but I believe from what I’ve read but not found conclusively is that people have tried, but no updates either way. I have also have a message from vanlifeoutfitters that it should be possible (they said a dealer would do it after they performed the swap). Lastly, I’ve seen the 2nd alternator rarely kicks on? And in other Ford models it’s easy to disable as it’s more of a random selection which one it uses. Doesn’t mean it applies but it’s a curiosity

will update this thread as I move through this journey

 

[gregoryx]

Someone here did some testing a while back and the reported outcome was that the second alternator kicks on more at idle than above. General conclusion: the 200A output is available even with one alternator and the second alternator is to support that 200A output even in idling conditions - most likely to support service vehicles like a bus or ambulance.

Haven't seen anyone here find a way (or try, that I recall) to get 400A out of the duals; but it stands to reason that it should be possible above idle and while driving - they'd likely overheat even with high-idle settings.

Curious on your application for 48V and the desire for 5kW or more of charging!?!

 

[Kjwhal]

For sure!

Output matters, but more so chasing a dedicated alternator for a large house battery, for consistent voltage, less wear and tear on the van starting, and a short recharge time, and I don’t plan on driving every day

oh, and a/c

 

[Michael Ophus]

Worse still: I think it's been asked a couple times - along with the ideas that it'll be simple to swap out #2 for a 48V or whatever. But def hasn't been anyone coming back saying it worked.

So if you figured it out, @Kjwhal, be sure to let everyone know!

As you probably know, there are a couple folks who have already done 48V alternators or at least high-output 12V units. But I don't think any of them started with the duals.

To @ArgonautVans point: maybe try the 2kW output (or as high as ~2.5kW) from the system to see if it will meet your needs first?

We have use-cases that drain as much as 4kWh in 24 hours and that's only 2-3 hours of engine-run (even idling with the dual-alternator setup) to restore that power. By most reports, we're one of the higher-draw folks here and it's working pretty well.

If you are going to make claims you should link those threads to prove it.

 

[ArgonautVans]

If you are going to make claims you should link those threads to prove it.

Maybe you should spend your time digging up old threads for other people 👍. It’s not like there are copious amounts of relevant threads to sort through or anything.

As someone who had also read the same threads as gregoryx, and came to the same conclusions as he eloquently summarized - I concur with him.

 

[njvagabond]

was/am intending to go 48v

For this part you might want to search the forum for posts from @Van Gogh, he is quite familiar with the Nations product.

 

[gregoryx]

For this part you might want to search the forum for posts from @Van Gogh, he is quite familiar with the Nations product.

Seems like there's at least one other with Nations. And @maia has an aftermarket alternator, IIRC. But I don't think either started with the duals.

 

[dinocarsfast]

I might be able to help with this and coincidentally it looks like I might be working at the navy base for a couple weeks in February. I’ve done a good amount of modifying transits with forscan

 

[Kjwhal]

So an update

Spoke with a solid independent mechanic, the tooling they have has no option for this


Spoke with Ford motor home division, no dealership will touch it, and there’s nothing even they can do

Have a Hail Mary call into nations if there’s some way to get a 3rd (go ahead and laugh) alternator connected

and if not, I recognize the limitations, will chew out the outfitter who told me in writing and pivot to a 12v delivery system of some kind, hopefully in the 120a or better range

 

[gregoryx]

...
and if not, I recognize the limitations, will chew out the outfitter who told me in writing and pivot to a 12v delivery system of some kind, hopefully in the 120a or better range

200A plus, pretty sure. IIRC, searching for "third party high power" gets the threads that have addressed how this works. I don't recall anyone confirming they've seen the 200A for sure... but, in theory, the belief is that it's possible.

 

[njvagabond]

Have a Hail Mary call into nations if there’s some way to get a 3rd (go ahead and laugh) alternator connected

OK Just 3?

200A plus, pretty sure

For some reason I seem to recall that for that high a load the BEMM calls for connecting directly to the battery with a sufficiently sized user supplied relay controlled by the vehicle load shed signal. 200a greater that the load shed relay and fuse rating of CCP2 Maybe the outfits that build ambulances and commercial service vehicles have experience with this type of set up.

 

[maia]

Seems like there's at least one other with Nations. And @maia has an aftermarket alternator, IIRC. But I don't think either started with the duals.

Mine is Nations. Started with single alternator because I wanted completely separate house and van electrical systems.

 

[njvagabond]

Mine is Nations. Started with single alternator because I wanted completely separate house and van electrical systems.

Any updates on it?

 

[gregoryx]

...
For some reason I seem to recall that for that high a load the BEMM calls for connecting directly to the battery with a sufficiently sized user supplied relay controlled by the vehicle load shed signal. 200a greater that the load shed relay and fuse rating of CCP2 Maybe the outfits that build ambulances and commercial service vehicles have experience with this type of set up.

That's my recollection as well. I scanned through the 3rd party and a couple other threads but couldn't find the quote.

Pretty sure the highest attempted draw I recall involved using the Victron B2B thingy... C-something? can't remember the name of it. But that required high voltage because it doesn't convert - just connects in a protected one-way.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 175A CCP2 is enough for most commercial demands. 🤷‍♀️