[Ramsel Ruiz]

I'm been reading the electrical threads here and have decided to go with a CTEK charger for battery to battery charging. There seem to be two main setups that people go with.

1. CTEK25000 - about $230
2. CTEK D250S Dual + Smartpass - about $440 together

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I'm going to have a 200w solar setup and 250ah Lifeline AGM battery. I'll be moving around a lot, so want to take advantage of charging from car battery.

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- The CTEK "D250S Dual has a built-in Maximum Power Point Tracker (MPPT)". That sounds great, so I can save money on the MPPT. Is that correct? Are there any major tradeoffs with going with the Dual instead of a separate MPPT?

- So if I go with the CTEK25000 I'll not only have to get a separate MPPT, but what exactly am I missing out on from not having the Smartpass in the system? What else would I have to buy if I go with the CTEK25000 setup?


I half understand these setups and any help clarifying would be much appreciated.

 

[EddieZ]

RandomJoe did some testing of the D250S Dual's MPPT today. Here's the link: http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...-camper-van-has-arrived-3.html#post342234I've got the D250S, too. For my occasional solar use, the D250S should be fine. Maybe for you, too, for simplicity. Or, for max performance, you may want to look at other possibilities.


The 25000 is an AC battery charger... the kind you would plug in at a campground, or at home, to charge your battery. To use that as your main coach battery charger, you would need to be running an inverter off of the Ford system, to power the 25000. I've never done that, so, I hope my understanding, there, is correct. So, charger, inverter, solar controller... at least 3 pieces, vs 2 in the CTEK... the Smartpass being necessary since you'll have more battery capacity than the D250S, alone, can handle.

 

[Ramsel Ruiz]

Hmm... Great to know about the MPPT in the D250S Dual.

I'm thinking buying a D250S + SmartPass + Morningstar MPPT would not be practical for my setup. I can always get a more efficient MPPT down the road if I need it.

 

[Ramsel Ruiz]

Forgot to check youtube!

Found a great slideshow explanation of the Dual + Smartpass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjqcOAjT4W4

CTEK has a decent video about their product line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHSI_qHOI4U

 

[RandomJoe]

The CTek's MPPT works okay, in full sun it's not too far off the Morningstar. It just won't produce quite as much overall, and it may be considerably lower during partly-cloudy conditions. If you aren't completely dependent on the solar it isn't a problem.

If I were buying everything new I might just use the CTek but I happened to already have the Morningstar so what the heck...

One comment I'd have about the Smartpass, though - can your battery bank handle / does it need 80A charging capacity? I'm using two 6V AGMs for a bank of 200AH at 12V. According to the manufacturer max charge rate is supposed to be around 60A (30% of rated capacity). Some brands recommend a lower percentage than that. IIRC Lifeline's a bit different from most, but can't remember their specs.

 

[EddieZ]

The CTek's MPPT works okay, in full sun it's not too far off the Morningstar. It just won't produce quite as much overall, and it may be considerably lower during partly-cloudy conditions. If you aren't completely dependent on the solar it isn't a problem.

If I were buying everything new I might just use the CTek but I happened to already have the Morningstar so what the heck...

One comment I'd have about the Smartpass, though - can your battery bank handle / does it need 80A charging capacity? I'm using two 6V AGMs for a bank of 200AH at 12V. According to the manufacturer max charge rate is supposed to be around 60A (30% of rated capacity). Some brands recommend a lower percentage than that. IIRC Lifeline's a bit different from most, but can't remember their specs.

The D250S alone is limited to 20A, though, which is the minimum for my 105Ah AGM. What should a person do, if their bank falls between needing the 20A, and the 80A with SmartPass.

I seem to recall the Lifeline requires a pretty high charge rate, which is one reason I did not go with one, since I didn't want to add the Smartpass right away.

BTW, I still have not seen anything definitive, about the output of the system with Smartpass... does the system put out the 80A of the Smartpass, OR, does it put out 80A in addition to the 20A of the D250S, alone?

 

[Anchorless]

I wish I could be of some help in this thread, but I'm about two weeks away from hooking all of my stuff up and getting it going.

I have (2) 6v 220ah Lifeline batteries, the D250s and Smartpass, and (2) 100w solar panels, so a very similar combination to yours. I think it will work just fine.

 

[RandomJoe]

My impression from the manual is it's just the Smartpass (80A total) until the current drops low enough for the CTek's 20A to cover it. Just a guess, though, from a quick read.

It would be nice if there was a way to configure the Smartpass to limit max current. For that matter, some adjustments on the D250S would be nice as well. It just occurred to me that the D250S manual specifies it's usable with basically all lead-acid battery types - but there's nothing to tell it what you're charging. Each type of battery has slightly different absorb and float voltages. The Morningstar has a DIP switch to select flooded or AGM, or you can even get fancy and set custom parameters using software to talk to it with a computer.

I do tend to run a bit light on charge current. My radio bench has a 100AH 12V AGM and a single 140W panel, about 10% charge rate. That's all it's had for - wow, 7-8 years now, time flies - and is still going so far. My big home system is 320AH 48V, 2.2kW in panels. Still only about 14%! It also has an AC powered charger in the inverter, I occasionally run it to give the batteries a stout charge current. They're flooded tall-case batteries so need some heavy amps occasionally to mix the electrolyte and prevent stratification.

In the van, I'll have 15A from the Morningstar and 20A from the CTek. If I run both together on a sunny day 35A is pretty reasonable - about 18%.

 

[impatient]

Bump from the past. In case anyone stumbles across this thread, let me comment on CTEK DS250S capacity. I have DS250S only, no Smartpass.
* Yes: CTEK 20a max (without SmartPass)
* Per CTEK, it is OK for up to 300ah battery bank (without SmartPass). I have 105aH.
* CTEK connected via CCP
* My C&D MR400 battery specs say C/5 MAXIMUM charge current. I have 105H aH battery, which is the "C" so 21a MAX charge current. Lifeline is different. I realize my battery is not the "preferred" solution but C&D are (or at least were) VERY high quality, and C&D makes a true Deep Cycle offering with same C/5 spec.
* CTEK has input voltage max of 23v, which limits solar panel selection. My 160w, 22.5v open circuit voltage panel seems to work fine.
* Seems to work well. Not sure if CTEK MPPT technology is best of breed, but doubt it is worse than PWM (as in my previous excellent Morningstar Prostar).
* My load is typical compressor fridge, Maxxair, some LED lights, and an aux fan for warm nights. I wouldn't worry about capacity for adding a Espar, Webasto, or Propex. However, if I were to do it over, I would 1st) boost battery capacity to 150ah-ish. 2nd) Would like some battery monitor (like I had with the Prostar, or better... FYI, I still have the Prostar, and can toggle switch it in to get a reading, or if the CTEK were to fail). 3rd) buy an AC charger for off-season / emergencies.
* After several months, it appears the CTEK is doing at least as well as the Morningstar, in fact better, since it a) charges house battery from alternator/start battery while driving, and b) pulse maintains the start battery from solar if house battery full. But I do miss the monitor being always-on, in fact want a BETTER monitor that includes better SOC, not just voltage.
* I don't doubt people with much larger batteries, panels, and charge controllers are in better shape, but at what cost? And at what "real estate"/weight penalty? I have 2 summers on this 105aH battery and 160w panel: Morningstar for yr 1, CTEK for yr 2. Yr 2 better. Caveat: summer only, no intensive winter, but so far this fall, CTEK seems to be keeping house AND start batteries full, while loads turned off, while van parked...under a shade tree...think about that.

 

[Hein]

Bump from the past. In case anyone stumbles across this thread, let me comment on CTEK DS250S capacity. I have DS250S only, no Smartpass.
* Yes: CTEK 20a max (without SmartPass)
* Per CTEK, it is OK for up to 300ah battery bank (without SmartPass). I have 105aH.
* CTEK connected via CCP
* My C&D MR400 battery specs say C/5 MAXIMUM charge current. I have 105H aH battery, which is the "C" so 21a MAX charge current. Lifeline is different. I realize my battery is not the "preferred" solution but C&D are (or at least were) VERY high quality, and C&D makes a true Deep Cycle offering with same C/5 spec.
* CTEK has input voltage max of 23v, which limits solar panel selection. My 160w, 22.5v open circuit voltage panel seems to work fine.
* Seems to work well. Not sure if CTEK MPPT technology is best of breed, but doubt it is worse than PWM (as in my previous excellent Morningstar Prostar).
* My load is typical compressor fridge, Maxxair, some LED lights, and an aux fan for warm nights. I wouldn't worry about capacity for adding a Espar, Webasto, or Propex. However, if I were to do it over, I would 1st) boost battery capacity to 150ah-ish. 2nd) Would like some battery monitor (like I had with the Prostar, or better... FYI, I still have the Prostar, and can toggle switch it in to get a reading, or if the CTEK were to fail). 3rd) buy an AC charger for off-season / emergencies.
* After several months, it appears the CTEK is doing at least as well as the Morningstar, in fact better, since it a) charges house battery from alternator/start battery while driving, and b) pulse maintains the start battery from solar if house battery full. But I do miss the monitor being always-on, in fact want a BETTER monitor that includes better SOC, not just voltage.
* I don't doubt people with much larger batteries, panels, and charge controllers are in better shape, but at what cost? And at what "real estate"/weight penalty? I have 2 summers on this 105aH battery and 160w panel: Morningstar for yr 1, CTEK for yr 2. Yr 2 better. Caveat: summer only, no intensive winter, but so far this fall, CTEK seems to be keeping house AND start batteries full, while loads turned off, while van parked...under a shade tree...think about that.

All great accurate points. Thank you. We like our Ctek off-grid kit in the Transit and it does well maintaining both chassis and house batteries. We have the 80A smart pass because it makes it possible to draw more current off the alternator when running a load (microwave) on the house system while the engine is running. The off grid kit comes with the Clipper BM-1 monitor which you can also purchase separately. (although expensive) We also have the Ctek battery sense module which is nice for logging voltage over time with a smart phone. system schematic: http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/532049-post123.html

Be aware that charge current is related to battery state of charge (SOC) and the internal resistance. -Not just the charger capacity. A charger is not going to deliver more than it's rating but the battery will not demand that much if it is mostly charged and internal resistance is high.

All the best,
Hein
DIYvan.com