[Andrei Ivanov]

I've been eyeing the Transit as a replacement for my aging pickup.
One of the main questions I'm struggling with is what platform to start with. Ideally I'd like to build/have a CrewCab variant (cargo in back, 1 row of pass seats behind driver).

I can start with a van, and I can do all of the necessary changes except 1...the airbag canopy. We will be taking kids out with us, and I want them to have protection in case of accident. Not sure how to solve this issue on a van.

If I use a wagon, I need to be able to secure the motorcycles properly with a chock or Pitbull TRS, both of which require attaching to floor. Does the wagon have just carpet over the floor, or is there stuff under the wagon's carpeting?

Also, do the bench seats in wagon fold down flat?

Any insight into this would be appreciated.

 

[stevek]

You can get vinyl instead of carpet as an option.

The wagon floor has plywood, spacers, and plastic heat ducts under the carpet. Somewhere on the forum there are pictures of the floor lifted up to see what is under there. Maybe someone else can point to it.

The bench seats do not fold down and they are heavy (50 - 100 lbs) but removeable.

The wagon does give you the option of putting some seats back in when you need to haul extra people, or remove altogether to haul plywood, drywall, or other long loads. There has been a lot of debate about the safety of adding seats to a van on this forum. The net result is it is a personal choice with some potential insurance issues in the event of an accident.

 

[Taz Pengra]

Although it would be less costly and completely safe to add seats to a cargo, it has been brought up that INSURANCE COVERAGE and payment of claims in the event of an accident might be an issue. If you have an accident and passengers in the rear seat of a cargo van are injured, it's very possible that your insurance company would refuse to cover them.

I don't think rear airbag is an option for the cargo van. And it IS an option, not standard, for the wagon (Premium package? Interior upgrade?)

factory bench seats do not fold flat, some versions recline a little bit. These are NOT minivan seats, they weigh 100-200lbs.

The wagon floor is elevated a few inches from the sheetmetal to accommodate ducting for heat/AC and to enclose the seat brackets. The cargo van is either plain sheetmetal or with the optional vinyl floor mat, which has felt underneath and feels more like a carpet than a vinyl floor. It is 5/8" inch thick on the edges, but compressed to 1/4-3/8" where it sits on the floor ribs.

That being said, there are some DIY posts showing how to add Transit factory wagon bench seats to a cargo van. There is no difference between wagon and cargo sheetmetal floors, other than the wagon has holes already drilled and reinforcement braces that span the lip of the Boron crossbeams already in place. The Boron cannot be drilled or it's integrity is ruined. Thus the square reinforcement braces that overlap the flange of the Boron beam in the wagons. Easily replicated to mount a seat in a cargo van. Some issues: gas tank needs to be dropped few inches to reach middle brace locations, the floor brackets stick up a bit and some sort of floor needs to be made with cutouts for the brackets so they aren't a tripping hazard when seat is removed. The DIY under-floor reinforcements should mimic the wagon reinforcements, by welding nuts to the brace so bracket bolts can be tightened easily from above. Adhesive or tack-weld the reinforcement plate in location underneath the floor. The square shape of the reinforcement plate prevents it from turning, because it's butted to the Boron beam.

Going with a wagon, you'd probably want to remove the headliner and fancy wall panels in the cargo area so they don't get greased. You also have windows to deal with, which can be left as-is, or covered by wall panels on the inside to protect the glass and keep people from peeking. And then there's the rear AC blower on the floor by the back door, it sticks out further than the wheel well. It could probably be removed and the associated wiring/ducting/etc capped off. Maybe it could be relocated. Some wagons also have side curtain airbags, and removal of those might lead to dash warnings or other issues. And you might want to remove the rear portion of the wagon floor to have more headroom.

If it were me and cost wasn't a big consideration, I'd get a high roof wagon and leave the floor intact, remove rear seating as needed, install a bunkhead to separate the cargo from passenger areas. And I'd cover the cargo area walls with plywood for protection of the van.

 

[Benjamin Loyle]

I don't have all of the answers for you Andrei - but I'm in the process of building a crew-van. I'm using it as a race bike hauler, so my dream is 1 - 2 race bikes and 2 - 4 people [one of which is an infant]. I just finished my trip to VIR last weekend so I've got some photos and lessons learned.

My setup:
- 2015 XLT Wagon long WB [non extended] with a mid roof
- Removed all but the second row of 2 seats.
- Baxley chock where the 2nd row jump seat would be.

This allowed me to fit the bike and have double leg room for the back area for baby care and it gave me the ability to take a nap in the van during the drive without having to unload. If you wanted you could fit the row of three in front of that one - or give yourself much more room by only have the three and now the middle 2 bench.

For now the Baxley is just resting on the floor - but I can easily mount it to the wood wagon floor. It will not be super structural, but those PitBull racks are very flat, so I would think you wouldn't have to worry too much about lateral forces. You are only screwing into 1/2" ply but you have a great air gap under it to put some serious washers / plate on under as well.

here are some photos to help you with the image.

 

[Andrei Ivanov]

You can get vinyl instead of carpet as an option.

The wagon floor has plywood, spacers, and plastic heat ducts under the carpet. Somewhere on the forum there are pictures of the floor lifted up to see what is under there. Maybe someone else can point to it.

The bench seats do not fold down and they are heavy (50 - 100 lbs) but removeable.

The wagon does give you the option of putting some seats back in when you need to haul extra people, or remove altogether to haul plywood, drywall, or other long loads. There has been a lot of debate about the safety of adding seats to a van on this forum. The net result is it is a personal choice with some potential insurance issues in the event of an accident.

Thank you. I found a thread discussing the possible insurance implications of adding a row of seats myself to a cargo van.
What kind of modifications can dealer do to a van on their lot? Can they order a powered seat for Transit and install it ('cause regular seats aren't very comfortable)
I've never actually built a vehicle through dealer, just bought what they had.

 

[Andrei Ivanov]

I don't have all of the answers for you Andrei - but I'm in the process of building a crew-van. I'm using it as a race bike hauler, so my dream is 1 - 2 race bikes and 2 - 4 people [one of which is an infant]. I just finished my trip to VIR last weekend so I've got some photos and lessons learned.

My setup:
- 2015 XLT Wagon long WB [non extended] with a mid roof
- Removed all but the second row of 2 seats.
- Baxley chock where the 2nd row jump seat would be.

This allowed me to fit the bike and have double leg room for the back area for baby care and it gave me the ability to take a nap in the van during the drive without having to unload. If you wanted you could fit the row of three in front of that one - or give yourself much more room by only have the three and now the middle 2 bench.

For now the Baxley is just resting on the floor - but I can easily mount it to the wood wagon floor. It will not be super structural, but those PitBull racks are very flat, so I would think you wouldn't have to worry too much about lateral forces. You are only screwing into 1/2" ply but you have a great air gap under it to put some serious washers / plate on under as well.

here are some photos to help you with the image.

Thanks, Ben.
Tomorrow I'm gonna go to a dealer that has a short wheelbase wagon (8 pass one) and see if bikes will fit behind the 1st row. I got 2 I bring to our races/track days.
I know they definitely fit with room to spare in a 148 WB van but I want to stay with a shorter van.

How did you deal with the gas smell in the cab? I rented a UHaul transit for a day. Driving to the track the cab was perfectly fine. But at the end of the day, once gas cans and bikes were exposed to hot TX sun and 95F day, the whole cabin stank of gasoline.
I don't think the rear windows are on latches, so there's really no option to vent the cabin except through front windows.

 

[Taz Pengra]

I think the only way to get a different rear seat is to go through an upfitter. Also, if you have a certified upfitter do the modifications, it should be covered by insurance.

 

[Andre Jones]

@Andrei Ivanov you can vent using similar methods to our house/RV brethren - roof vent +- floor vent which will keep things cooler and hopefully keep the stank at bay. Cargo has the options of adding sliding T windows, but then you have the issue of adding seats. SEMA may bring some window options about for the wagons *fingers crossed*. 2017 Transit may have different passenger windows based on one pic I saw, but definitely not certain.

Cargo windows -- http://www.motionwindows.com/products/ford-transit-van-aftermarket-conversion-windows/

 

[CrewVanMan]

Andrei Ivanov

Where are you located? I may be able to locate some MR 130" WB wagons for you. The 8 passenger just has 2 3 passenger seats, but you may want to go with the 10 passenger seating instead. I may be able to send you to a dealer that has both the 8 & 10 passenger wagons. In the 148" WB, it comes with a 12 passenger & 15 passenger wagon. The 12 might work better for you if you decide to go with the longer wheelbase.

 

[USMC Vet]

Wagon floor clarification

I have have some information in regards to the flooring in the Transit wagons and vans that I received from my mobility up fitter.

When he did his first mobility up fit on a Transit wagon ( he did the 1st one in the U.S.) He did all the drawings and specs etc, so that he would have the information on file for future pricing on builds. What he found, and he took it in the pocket, on his next couple of bids, was that Ford had a different floor for each seating capcity wagon. His first up fit was for a 8 passenger wagon. Mine was his 2nd (mine is a 12 passenger), he also had a 10 and 15 passenger going at the same time. He found that each floor was constructed specifically for the number of seats ordered, no other bracing , attachments, support or holes were included for possibly adding other seats later. One would think that Ford would make all the floors the same for ease of construction (both for the wagons and the cargo), but evidently they found that the cost savings of multiple floors saved them more if they did it that way. I had wanted to order a 15 passenger so I could put a sofa / bed in the far back area, after removing all the other seats for my wheel chair, but with the other equipment needed, I was limited to a 12 seater.

He has multiple engineering degrees and was able to put the sofa in the area that it would have been, in a 15 seater, because he is licensed to do that type of modifications. It involved a lot of structural welding etc, so that it is completely legal.

When he and me were discussing which type of Transit to get, van or wagon, there were pricey trade offs. With the van a stronger support floor could be added on top of the basic floor and secured to the frame and I wouldn't be paying for some things that weren't needed or were going to be replaced anyway. In the wagon, the stock flooring and seats would have to be removed first. (time is money). When I advised that I wanted the sofa /bed not only for my use, but to carry passengers (friends and grandkids), he advised he would only do that in the wagon. His reason, he has all the degrees and licenses to do that in a wagon, but can't do it in a van, knowing that I want to carry passengers, because the van has not been designed and crash tested for it to be legal. He could do it, if it was only for me, while we were stopped someplace. And even then I would have to sign a form acknowledging that I was aware that passengers could not be seated there while the vehicle was moving (the same way conversion companies do if they aren't modifying a passenger vehicle), to release him from liability and putting it all on me.

Don't know if this will help you in your decisions, but it is what I learned in the buying process. The wagon cost more and I have 12 unused seats on shelves in the garage, but I don't have to worry about the liability issues.

Semper Fi

 

[Benjamin Loyle]

How did you deal with the gas smell in the cab? I rented a UHaul transit for a day. Driving to the track the cab was perfectly fine. But at the end of the day, once gas cans and bikes were exposed to hot TX sun and 95F day, the whole cabin stank of gasoline.
I don't think the rear windows are on latches, so there's really no option to vent the cabin except through front windows.

Andrei - I don't have an easy answer for you, other than - my bikes don't smell of gas. They are carbureted, but i keep the vent hoses tight and i never have an issue with fuel smell.

lucky I guess.

 

[Andrei Ivanov]

Andrei - I don't have an easy answer for you, other than - my bikes don't smell of gas. They are carbureted, but i keep the vent hoses tight and i never have an issue with fuel smell.

lucky I guess.

I guess it was the heat and the plastic gas cans which vented. But good to know that bikes normally don't do it.

 

[Andrei Ivanov]

Andrei Ivanov

Where are you located? I may be able to locate some MR 130" WB wagons for you. The 8 passenger just has 2 3 passenger seats, but you may want to go with the 10 passenger seating instead. I may be able to send you to a dealer that has both the 8 & 10 passenger wagons. In the 148" WB, it comes with a 12 passenger & 15 passenger wagon. The 12 might work better for you if you decide to go with the longer wheelbase.

Thank you. I'm in Austin area. But after talking to wife tonight we've decided to wait a bit and see what happens in next 6 months. If a kid is on a way...I guess I'll have to give my track riding a bit of break.
But I'm gonna go measure up 130" LR just in case anyway. We're gonna need a bigger vehicle in the near future anyway, and I want to be ready for the moment and know what I want.
I want to try and keep it an LR just for compactness sake. I know I can get my sportbike in it, jsut need to make sure I can get the supermoto in.

 

[Taz Pengra]

There are hundreds if not thousands of used LR wagons for sale, most with 1000-20,000 miles on them and a lot of them are less than $20k. A resourceful person would get a low mile used car and not suffer the extra 25-30% cost of a new one off the lot. The warranty is transferable, so a Transit with less than 10k miles still has about 25k miles bumper-to-bumper (36k, 3 years from date first put in service). If any oddness caused by Union auto workers is going to happen, it will probably happen in the first 10k anyway.

Try Autolist.com or CarGuru.com for a detailed search of new and used vehicles for sale.

 

[CrewVanMan]

Low roof 130" WB wagons in your area.

Leif Johnson GKA83331
Bluebonnet Motors GKA78151
Jordan Ford GKA83286
Northside Ford GKA73462, GKA83290
Grande Ford Truck Sales GKA26775